[Anime-Only] Shippuden Episode 20 Discussion / Poll

[Sugetsu]

Oh god this is it... I used to be a major naruto fan and I refused to read the manga at all cost because I though the anime was great; specially episode 135, by far the greatest of the animated series in my opinion. I was hoping that after the 100 fillers were over we would get to see some great pacing and action sequences and oh boy what a disappointment!

I will start reading the manga from now on. I can't stand the slow pacing and boring action sequences anymore.

I am so pissed at the anime developers! What have you done to one of the best shunnen animes in story!? Naruto Shippuden is not a even a shadow of its former and glorious self! What kind of retard would think that dragging out the chapters is the best way for the anime to never catch up to the manga? Make some more fillers later on or stick in a filler episode in between 3 episodes or something... Anything else is smarter than what they are currently doing.

Someone please tell me... If you were a making an action anime would you ever consider making it slow-paced? This is common sense: Slow-pace and action do not mix. Why have they failed to see to this point?

And for anyone who cares, I am officially done with the anime...

/rant off

[Claymore636]

It was a good episode...

[ShadowClone]

Pacing was a bit faster than other earlier eps, but still quite not "up to par" with the first season. From the preview, I'm guessing they will show/resolve the "clone fights" and end it with the revelation of Sasori's face. That's one whole episode without any advancement whatsoever! You know I'll be right!

[bkzjester]

was sakura controlled before the needle spamming attacks or right after they dodged them all?

[wingdarkness]

I would have loved this episode if there was a 10 minute scene of an old lady and a over-exaggerated powered girl dodging a million needles...If I would have seen THAT then I would have loved this episode ...

It was yet another average episode so it got the average rating...Sakura's skill is overblown to me...2 years improvement = 36 degree grandmaster dodging abilities?

Originally Posted by 0TaKu0

! Because Art is a Bang!

Man.. honestly I don’t know what the HELL you guys are bitching about, this episode was freaking amazing!! Almost every freaking scene was drawn beautifully, there was barely anything that was bad quality. You guys don’t understand that it is still in the introduction phase, the talks that happened is a requirement, its a must, its letting the fans know who and what Sakura and Chiyo are dealing with.

Akatsuki is no joke, and I think the animation team did a great job of expressing that Sassori is not to be taken lightly, the guy has 298 human puppet’s, real Shinobi that he killed and then turned them in to battle puppets. Information like that is a must know for the fans, its done to set the "mood" and let the us know the caliber of the opponent Sakura and Chiyo are about to face.

Trust me, once the ball gets rolling its going to roll. However, if you guys are getting tired of explanations and information on the opponents that is an obvious necessity, then you wont survive when its time to explain how and why Sakura was able to dodge everything as well as Chiyo, because you know how Naruto is, when something amazing happens, there is always a pause in the fight so it can be explained, you know its going to be full of flash backs, and back story on the opponents, who, what, where, when, how, why especially if they are some how connected (EX: Sassori being chiyo's grand son).

In any case, please quit your blubbering, especially you Manga readers. I really enjoyed today's episode and as a Manga reader my self, I waited so long to see some of that stuff animated, and it was damn perfect, couldn’t be any better, the pace was perfect for this episode, Deidara looked so bad ass, the quality if the mouth on his hand, from its look to the sounds it made, it was great, they really upped the animation

Go watch YuYu Hakusho (a show far deeper than Naruto) and tell me if you have to have a ten minute conversation about the abilities of your opponent before fighting them in a verses episode?? When they were flying in the trees for 3 straight eps Granny was breaking down everything (that's the type of episode you breakdown sasori, not during the time-constraints of a 3 way fight--From an animated perspective that's bad pacing)...I don't even read the manga and can see how stupefying the anime-team has made these fight set-ups...5 mins Sasori fight, 2 mins naruto fight, 3 mins Gai fight, 5 mins naruto and kakashi discussing the upcoming fight, etc.,--that's quite annoying in a 22 minute anime (I forsee the rest of these fights having zero smoothness as every fight in this series up to this point)...The ep would have been better (functionality wise) if it would have focused just on the Sasori fight by itself, but it couldn't even do that right...


So 10 minutes of needle dodgeball (which IMO OOC's Sakura's abilities--I know she's improved but that's a ridiculous leap I think), followed by a super-slow motion punch to sasori's puppet was great build-up?? I mean this guy is in Akatsuki and couldn't dodge a punch that was coming from a mile a way? (Again the way the anime over did it)...Made Sasori look weak to me...

As for Naruto himself, the pacing of the show is so off he seems like a bad side-character given the same lines each episode...22 eps into a continuing series is more than enuff to judge it on many levels and Naruto is failing(There has been no indication that this series will be presented any other way than we've seen)...Other than the build-up to the sasuke fight (that 7, 8 eps before they actually started to fight) I have never felt this helpless with this show and you want people to give it a break because it's in the intro stage? Thank God it has the best damn OP credits I think I've ever seen which makes up for alot...

[0TaKu0]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Go watch YuYu Hakusho (a show far deeper than Naruto) and tell me if you have to have a ten minute conversation about the abilities of your opponent before fighting them in a verses episode??

You know what I think the truth is ? "Patience" the key word and the key difference between the people who actually enjoyed this episode, and the people who did not.

Basically what I am getting at is, as a Manga reader I wait a full week (this is not counting all the weeks they take off and I wait for two weeks instead of one) for just a few pages of drawings. Most of the times the pages are filled with nothing but conversations and characters standing around, that could last for 1 chapter to 6 chapters maybe more I can't really give you a specific number because I am not counting. None the less, times 6 by 7 that’s how many days we manga readers sometimes have to wait to see any action, and this happens all the time, Naruto characters have conversations all the time, 99% of the lines you hear in the anime (thats not fillers) its all in the Manga.

Now, even when the fighting starts a 1 v 1 fight between characters could last any where from 8 to 15 chapter’s heck maybe even more. Times that by 7 and you will understand the meaning of patience, and cliffhangers. So in conclusion, that is how I see it people who enjoyed this episode just had more patience then the ones who didn’t. I know for a fact I'll enjoy the next one because I am being very mellow about Shippuden because I'm just glad after waiting so long (trust me when I say long I mean long) I finally get to see all the things I have wanted to see animated for free, so I can appreciate that.

[KiNA]

^ Indeed. And you better get use to this, because every next fight will be full of chitchat.. It was the same back in 1st season too ^0^

The episode was good for me.. but then again, I was waiting for the fight since a long time ago .. Animation was superb. Art style do vary a bit.. in the earlier minutes.. its look like Initial D 1st season drawing...

I actually like the needle dodging scene.. It shows that Sakura improved far beyond her medic abilities.. Also, unlike GSDisaster that recycled every frames every few seconds.. we got a lot of variation movement.

The only annoying in this episode is the poor handling of Naruto side of fighting.

I couldn't wait for the mirror fight.. In the manga, they skip right to the end, so the anime team have full hands of animating it ... I'll be happy if they could be on par with Lee vs Kimmi filler fight that I've enjoyed so much ^^

[jc1104]

Originally Posted by Hydex

I mus have seen a different ep 20 then

Time on that? I didn't see that anywhere <.<

EDIT: There was one part I found funny.. was when Chiyo was saying Sakura.. you have Princess Tsunade's *pause* and then shows Tsunade growling lol.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by captzork

I only wonder what puppet Akatsuki will pull out now out of his massive collection, and what is in the scroll that old lady took with her when she left the sand village?

You’ll see, I hope you enjoy iot, because I found it awesome!

Originally Posted by indicatoto101

I remember Chiyo saying that the reason he didn't attack first was because he had less experience than she did. I doesn't really make any sense but at least they tried to explain it.

Well, is easy, Sasori is been cautious and not underestimating his opponent, even if Chiyo is old, she still have way more experience, and Sasori not been careful about it could be dangerous for him.

Is the same as Orochimaru vs Sandaime, Sandaime had more experience, but was not stronger than Orochimaru, but because Oro underestimated him, Sandaime end up sealing his arms and almost got away to kill him.

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

It was yet another average episode so it got the average rating...Sakura's skill is overblown to me...2 years improvement = 36 degree grandmaster dodging abilities?

In the next episode you will be explained.

Go watch YuYu Hakusho (a show far deeper than Naruto) and tell me if you have to have a ten minute conversation about the abilities of your opponent before fighting them in a verses episode?? When they were flying in the trees for 3 straight eps Granny was breaking down everything (that's the type of episode you breakdown sasori, not during the time-constraints of a 3 way fight--From an animated perspective that's bad pacing)...I don't even read the manga and can see how stupefying the anime-team has made these fight set-ups...5 mins Sasori fight, 2 mins naruto fight, 3 mins Gai fight, 5 mins naruto and kakashi discussing the upcoming fight, etc.,--that's quite annoying in a 22 minute anime (I forsee the rest of these fights having zero smoothness as every fight in this series up to this point)...The ep would have been better (functionality wise) if it would have focused just on the Sasori fight by itself, but it couldn't even do that right...

The thing is that Naruto is one of those type of series that go very deeps to explain everything, specifically how powers work, YuYuHakusho did not had that type of depth (you did not even had just training Chapters), a series which you could say has that same type of depth as Naruto is Hunter x Hunter.

Personally, I like the style of giving detailed explanation about how things happen, and Kishimto has been very very detailed with his work.

..[..] I mean this guy is in Akatsuki and couldn't dodge a punch that was coming from a mile a way? (Again the way the anime over did it)...Made Sasori look weak to me...

Part of this was explained in this chapter, Sakura could do that because she got very close, which is the Puppeteers weakness, they are very weak fighters at close range. That’s the reason he had that big –shell- mask on the back, it was used to reinforce the defense of Hiruko as stated by Chiyo.

Originally Posted by Kira_Naruto

^ Indeed. And you better get use to this, because every next fight will be full of chitchat.. It was the same back in 1st season too ^0^

Good to know that you also noticed this, people complaint how this anime is going compared to part 1, but, people would be surprised, while you can’t compare what we are seen now with fights like the Rock Lee vs. Gaara fight. The average fight were more or less what we are seen now.

Also, I’ve been thinking that the BGM could play a factor to make it feel as if the Anime is a little bit slow compared to part 1, this BGM is great, kind of epic, but, IMO, part 1 BGM had a fast paced style that was more suitable for fights than Shipuden BGM.

[jc1104]

Rurik, awesome reply. I was about to mention that fights in first season are about the same as the ones now. Take Tsunade vs. Kabuto and then the Sannin fight.. there was a lot of pausing and explaining too.

One thing that amazes me though is how people can just watch the fight and expect to understand it without listening to explanations. As Rurik said, puppeteers are really bad at close combat which is why his puppet got hit, but that doesn't mean Sasori is weak. That's only his main puppet that he uses, there's like 297 puppets left lol. Also, Sasori thought it was silly for Sakura to charge in but obviously Chiyo was pulling some strings on Hiruko which is why his tail got stopped right in front of Sakura.

[wingdarkness]

Listen to what I said both of you...It's the way it's PRESENTED...Explanations don't mean jack if it's animated in a way not consistent with the actual explanation (or simply via the shonen-cheeze slow-mo effect)...I'm no fool, God knows you couldn't ignore Baa-chan's breakdown even if you wanted to it's so long and tedious...But it's animated cheaply (not in ink, but in direction, mood; both overdone IMO)...As for Sakura I guess there better be a $hitload of explanations to validate her avoiding easily 10,000 needles like Spike from Cowboy Bebop closing his eyes doing his patented freestyle water movements after digesting shrooms and speed...

Sakura's progress irks me, it just suspends all belief for me especially when Naruto has looked like $hit all series in lack of visible improvement or at the very least superficial shonen goodness...Throw a dawg a bone, sheeesh...I can't think of one shonen-fighter that waited longer than 22 eps to atleast show us some main character bull$hit coolness...

As for part 1 being just as slow or annoying in fight pacing than part 2...That's just a load to me...You know what tells me this, the fact that I never felt like I feel during Shippudden...It's called state of mind...Even during the fillers I atleast had some investment because of the necessary evil I KNEW...But in Shippudden it's the evil you DIDN'T KNOW that's killing this series (or at the very least allowing apathy to set in for many of us--Apathy is arguably worse than hate)...

Oh and while I really dig H x H...It's pretty darn slow in it's buildup leaving you wanting so much more than a 62 ep series can give...H X H doesn't even really begin for me until they go to Celestial Tower and that's around ep 40...With that said though, HxH unlike Naruto was a new series and not the second part of an established series so I gave much more leeway...

Also, I’ve been thinking that the BGM could play a factor to make it feel as if the Anime is a little bit slow compared to part 1, this BGM is great, kind of epic, but, IMO, part 1 BGM had a fast paced style that was more suitable for fights than Shipuden BGM.

For Teh eternal Win...The most slept on fault of this series ..the music is too damn organic as I've stated since episode 1...It's good but so not fitting with the fighting element of this series...

[jc1104]

They really haven't shown Naruto do anything big yet, and it has been 3 years in Naruto world. Tsunade is also Sakura's master so she did have a lot of training so it is believable.

[Frenchie]

Sakura's also paired with Chiyo. I mean, it isn't like Chiyo doesn't know where everything is. So even though Sakura might not know all of them, I'm sure she'd still remember a few from Chiyo's advice.

You could think that... OR you could watch the rest of the anime and enjoy the ride? ^^

[D a m i e n]

so basically the fights scene are shit compared to : sasuke vs orochimaru in shinomori
gaara vs lee in tournament, sasuke vs gaara or Lee+gaara vs bonedude (cant remember his/her name). hell even zabusa vs kakashi rocked.

so yeah i m glad i stoped wasting my time and my bandwidth with that show about 2+ years ago.

[BlackShinobi07]

A couple questions to all the manga readers.

If Shippudens was at part ones pace, at what point in the manga do you think it would be right now at episode 20?

Also, if part one was at shippudens pace, at what part of the manga would it be at episode 20?

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Listen to what I said both of you...It's the way it's PRESENTED...Explanations don't mean jack if it's animated in a way not consistent with the actual explanation (or simply via the shonen-cheeze slow-mo effect)...I'm no fool, God knows you couldn't ignore Baa-chan's breakdown even if you wanted to it's so long and tedious...But it's animated cheaply (not in ink, but in direction, mood; both overdone IMO)...As for Sakura I guess there better be a $hitload of explanations to validate her avoiding easily 10,000 needles like Spike from Cowboy Bebop closing his eyes doing his patented freestyle water movements after digesting shrooms and speed...

As I said Wing, be patient for the next chapter, I think the explanation could be of your liking… my spoiler hand is shaking some, c’mon man don’t force me to get banned…

Sakura's progress irks me, it just suspends all belief for me especially when Naruto has looked like $hit all series in lack of visible improvement or at the very least superficial shonen goodness...Throw a dawg a bone, sheeesh...I can't think of one shonen-fighter that waited longer than 22 eps to atleast show us some main character bull$hit coolness...

well, for the case of Naruto, it was the same complaint there was from Manga readers, so basically, Naruto lack of visible improvement is really not something to blame on the Anime team, but the author himself.

As for part 1 being just as slow or annoying in fight pacing than part 2...That's just a load to me...You know what tells me this, the fact that I never felt like I feel during Shippudden...It's called state of mind...Even during the fillers I atleast had some investment because of the necessary evil I KNEW...But in Shippudden it's the evil you DIDN'T KNOW that's killing this series (or at the very least allowing apathy to set in for many of us--Apathy is arguably worse than hate)...

You just lost me on the “Necessary evil” part.

And yeah, maybe the combination of: BGM, the story itself that the author made, and the fact that we have really not seen mayor fight, has left a good amount of viewers disgusted with the series. And, barring the music, in the whole part 1 you see a lot of time how the anime team kept a so-so pacing and how time after time they made cuts from the action to show Naruto doing jack.

I mean, did people forget all of the sudden how the fight of Oro vs. Sandaime went constantly going back and forth to Naruto and team jumping trees? Or how Sasuke vs Haku was cut in the middle to show Naruto playing around with the Crying brat?

And Lets be clear here, is not as if up to this point the Manga was that interesting to begin with.

Oh and while I really dig H x H...It's pretty darn slow in it's buildup leaving you wanting so much more than a 62 ep series can give...H X H doesn't even really begin for me until they go to Celestial Tower and that's around ep 40...With that said though, HxH unlike Naruto was a new series and not the second part of an established series so I gave much more leeway...

62 EP? there are also some OVAS that continue the series, 3 Seasons OVA, around some 30 Plus Chapters, have you gone trough that also?

For Teh eternal Win...The most slept on fault of this series ..the music is too damn organic as I've stated since episode 1...It's good but so not fitting with the fighting element of this series...

Yeah, and my fear was what type of BGM they were going to use for fights, because for moments were Aatsuki was introduced with that type of gothic opera choir, gave me Goosebumps, but trying to use this on the fights, well, is feels empty.

Originally Posted by BlackShinobi07

A couple questions to all the manga readers.

If Shippudens was at part ones pace, at what point in the manga do you think it would be right now at episode 20?

Also, if part one was at shippudens pace, at what part of the manga would it be at episode 20?

With Shipuden pacing, you would had been in Chapter 22 in the manga, with Naruto normal pacing, you would had covered some 33 Manga chapters. in other words in 20 episodes with Naruto pacing you could only cover 22 Manga chapters with Normal Naruto 33 Manga chapters.

But consider this, in the last 7 Episodes Shipuden have covered 10 Manga chapters, meaning that from this point on Shipuden has had a ratio of 1.5 Manga chapters per episode, that’s a difference of just 0.3 Compared to part 1 that had usually a ratio of 1.8 chapters per Anime episode.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by BlackShinobi07

A couple questions to all the manga readers.

If Shippudens was at part ones pace, at what point in the manga do you think it would be right now at episode 20?

Also, if part one was at shippudens pace, at what part of the manga would it be at episode 20?

If Shippuden kept the previous pace we would be 7-10 episodes further, around chapter 272-275.
At Shippuden pace we would be at the climbing tree training.

[Sasuke_Bateman]

Seeing Sakura and Chiyo did nothing for me.

[BlackShinobi07]

Originally Posted by Hunter

If Shippuden kept the previous pace we would be 7-10 episodes further, around chapter 272-275.
At Shippuden pace we would be at the climbing tree training.

Just imagine Naruto part one starting the way Shippuden did, (assuming most fans started watched the anime before reading the manga) these Naruto boards would be EMPTY.

[Child_of_Sierra]

No they won't. It would be more of what is on these shippuden threads: manga readers complaining about the anime.