Boku wa Tomodachi ga Sukunai NEXT - Episode 12 (End) Discussion / Poll

[frivolity]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

Originally, I did believe that Yozora will be the end choice. However, after thinking about it, the author will most likely end with Sena and have Yozora come back strong as a good friend.

Why did I come to that conclusion? It has to do with the fan base. If what I have seen is correct, Sena is the overwhelming favorite girl in the fanbase. The last Valentine's poll for favorite girl amongst all anime girls past and present had Sena at #1. That's an insanely large fanbase for her. If the story ends up with anyone besides Sena, I'm thinking a riot might happen and fans will be mad at the author as well as merchandise. Sadly, even if the author intended and wanted to end with Yozora, I don't think she will.

I too believed that Yozora was the clear cut end girl as well, mainly because she and Kodaka were the only characters on the cover of the first novel. Right now, however, I think it's a very open question and any girl could win depending on a number of external circumstances.

I do think the fan base will ultimately have an influence on the ending, but my reasoning is different. My belief is that the author hadn't actually planned out the entire story from the very beginning, and was writing parts of it as he went along. He probably had a general idea of where the story would go, but the details were getting filled up along the way. This is a logical approach because the market for light novels is harsh and readers fickle. Planning a full story right down to the minor details is generally infeasible when the story could be pulled from the shelves at any moment.

However, Sena's popularity skyrocketed to an unexpected and unprecedented level, so the author decided to take a short detour as a shiptease. This resulted in a volume with a massive focus on Sena. Pegasus became more involved, with the whole childhood friend and childhood engagement plots brought in. As a result, the popularity of the series did increase even further, but the author suddenly realised that the detour had become a full rerouting, and it was not possible to carry on with the original plans while maintaining a logical flow. Furthermore, Sena's development had been excessively accelerated, leaving several other characters underdeveloped.

In response, the author released Connect to plug a few gaps that had been left behind by the detour and to plant an escape rope (Yozora's short monologue at the end) that ties the story into the next novel. In the author's notes at the back of Connect, the author mentioned that he had not intended for Pegasus to play such a big role in the story, which adds credence to the theory that the plot point involving Pegasus (the engagement) did not feature in the original plans. The author has had to rewrite volume 9 as well, leading to the repeated delays, such that till today there is no fixed date for its release (I'm aware of the April 25 date, but the comments at randomc point out that the publisher's website doesn't even list volume 9 as an upcoming release). As for which girl will win now, who knows? I think the author himself doesn't either.

As an aside, I believe the same thing happened in OreImo as well with Kuroneko, but the dates don't seem to match very well. The Kuroneko-centric Volume 7 was released a few months before the anime and I'm not too certain whether Kuroneko was already popular even before KanaHana's breakout performance. With BokuTomo, Volume 8 came out 6 months after the anime ended.

I don't think the fanbase will ultimately decide who wins, but I think the end girl will depend a lot on commercial factors in the sense that the author will be forced to end the story when popularity falls. The girl who happens to be riding the wave at that point will be the most convenient candidate for the end girl, and will thus have the highest chance.

For an example of a girl riding the wave to victory, there's some discussion in this thread.

-------

TL;DR of my conspiracy theory:
1. There was no detailed original plan, just a very general framework for the story. I believe that Yozora was the original intended end girl if the story went that far.
2. Sena became unexpectedly popular, so the author added in a few events involving her.
3. Those additions caused a huge deviation from the initial framework, so the author released Connect as an escape route and is now rewriting Volume 9.
4. Every girl now has a chance because the original framework is no longer being used.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Sackett

I haven't read the novels and I can tell you Kodaka's type:

Long dark hair
A build similar to Rika or Yozora
Chaste
Demure
Strong Willed (Yes, he wants both this and demure- Yamato Nadeshiko would be an example of this, although there are other variations, and Kodaka is not set on a Yamato Nadeshiko.)
Intelligent

Basically: What Rika would be if she weren't a perverted Fujoshi. Also, this what Yozora is, once you get past her barriers and harsh exterior.

This is not to say Kodaka doesn't find Sena attractive, nor does it mean she can't "win" just that it would be a selection against type. Sena is probably the least like his type. Again doesn't mean he can't end up with her. Many men end up with someone different from their "type" after all. We don't marry a "type" we marry a person.

Just saying though that Kodaka has shown a more natural interest in Yozora or even Rika then he has in Sena. This despite Sena giving him far more opportunities. Really, what kind of cheats is that rich girl using?

Other than the build quality (Which I'm gonna call BS on since Kodaka has shown plenty of attraction to Sena's build), nothing in your list makes Sena any further from Kodaka's "type" than Rika and Yozora...

In any case, where exactly did you get that list?

[thundrakkon]

@frivolity

Thanks for the insightful explanation. You made really sound points, and it gives great insight to where this could be heading. As the ending scene indicated and the title of the next book, it looks like Yozora will be in for some major changes. Maybe the author could spin it around and make Yozora likeable; however, doing that might actually alienate her current fanbase, so who knows. However, I do believe Yozora going on her trip will be beneficial for all.

Even though Kodaka and Sena seem affectionate in the last scene, I think that they might go with a "let's hold this off for now" type of scenario. Not a conclusive decision, but leaves just enough room to come back and reignite things if it calls for it.

You are probably right that the author does not know how he will end the series at the moment. Given the fact that the changes in direction that he made actually increased the popularity of the franchise, he might continue to go in that direction. This is a business, afterall, so you are right that they will probably go with what sells the most at any particular time.

[potchip]

Both Sena and Yozora has nice and not so nice traits. I use 'not so nice' because that in itself doesn't mean 'unlikable' for every person. That people would casually throw around words 'unlikable' or 'no redeeming feature' just screams 'shipper alert' to me. Just like in any other person you know in life, you do not sum the positive and negative points of a person then decide if that person as a whole is worth your time. Each point is dependent on the context and even depending on your interaction, some undesirable facets can nevertheless be tolerable.

My measure of the main girl in this show is fairly simple: it sticks to the theme of zennen. In effect, the more tragic/unfortunate/face-palm a character's personality is, the bigger chance that character is the main one. As soon as a character becomes almost normal with a side fetish (eg Rika), in my mind she's relegated to interesting 'prop' of the story.

Personally I think resolution will not be around turning the tragic personality around per se (therefore word 'resolution' will not apply) so I won't be holding my breath that front to turn some of your preferences around, that is akin to rob the story of its very fuel. Instead, it will be about showing hereto unseen facets that, somewhat, nice, at times.

[Makoto Yuki]

Originally Posted by Haak

Other than the build quality (Which I'm gonna call BS on since Kodaka has shown plenty of attraction to Sena's build), nothing in your list makes Sena any further from Kodaka's "type" than Rika and Yozora...

In any case, where exactly did you get that list?

i guess he forgot the b**bs. all man love big b**bs, but the author is a girl so... yeah i think that's the correct list.

[Makoto Yuki]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

Originally, I did believe that Yozora will be the end choice. However, after thinking about it, the author will most likely end with Sena and have Yozora come back strong as a good friend.

Why did I come to that conclusion? It has to do with the fan base. If what I have seen is correct, Sena is the overwhelming favorite girl in the fanbase. The last Valentine's poll for favorite girl amongst all anime girls past and present had Sena at #1. That's an insanely large fanbase for her. If the story ends up with anyone besides Sena, I'm thinking a riot might happen and fans will be mad at the author as well as merchandise. Sadly, even if the author intended and wanted to end with Yozora, I don't think she will.

Japanese people love blue eyes and blond hair with big*you know*... mangaka(im reading manga) never forget to add them in the story for they are the ones that increase its fanbase for money ofcourse(one thing noticed after reading Bleach, FairyTail, etc)..

Authors write novels to express themselves and what they feel (usually girl authors). If urahara is right.. i guess the end will most likely be Yozora X Kodaka because Sena is just too perfect for Kodaka.... and the picture thing? It was just added in the story for.. you know.. to please the fans so many will continue to read her novels. Don't take it serously. It's just my theory.

[frivolity]

^The author is male.

I don't think LN authors write purely to express themselves either. While it is often a major reason, they still need to put food on the table.

[Makoto Yuki]

Originally Posted by frivolity

^The author is male.

I don't think LN authors write purely to express themselves either. While it is often a major reason, they still need to put food on the table.

I found this in Baka Tsuki.. http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/in...me_1_Afterword

and haganai is clearly about the author of this novel

[frivolity]

Exactly, that link said that there's other considerations involved, including trying to extend the story as long as possible, and earning some money from its success, with the former being directly affected by the latter.

[potchip]

Originally Posted by Makoto Yuki

I found this in Baka Tsuki.. http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/in...me_1_Afterword

and haganai is clearly about the author of this novel

What that translates to is actually 'freedom' as in able to swoop low and gather all typical elements in character creation.

His other works had too much of his 'own' stuff to be accepted main-stream, as in he indulged a bit too much. In fact Haganai started out as a more generic novel with a more commercial focus - it started off the bat unashamedly meshed a lot of archetypes into one character, and lost some the edge in his usual commentary. Funny in the commercial world, maturity comes at knowing when to push and when to stop and revert back to typical - getting meta, but it's something a lot of the characters are yet to learn.

If you are familiar with his work, you wouldn't be surprised with the reverse trap, he's done it before.

[Sackett]

Originally Posted by Haak

Other than the build quality (Which I'm gonna call BS on since Kodaka has shown plenty of attraction to Sena's build), nothing in your list makes Sena any further from Kodaka's "type" than Rika and Yozora...

In any case, where exactly did you get that list?

I got the list by watching the first and second season and listening to the comments Kodaka makes about each girl.

The build quality is actually one I'm pretty sure of based on a couple comments to Rita, and at least one towards Yozora. I'm not saying Sena is unattractive, but for Kodaka his reaction towards Sena has been more muted and tends to be based on her inattentiveness to what she's showing rather then "I like big boobs."

Basically if Kodaka were to describe the physical traits of his "ideal woman" you'd end up with a girl who looks more like Rita or Yozora (or Hinata for that matter) rather then Sena. That's not to say Sena is unattractive to Kodaka, just that she's not his ideal.

Sena also lacks everything on the list except for her strong will. She's blonde, plays eroges openly, is in no way demure, and while she is book smart she does not provide the same intellectual conversations that we've seen Kodaka enjoys. (Especially compared to Yozora or Rita. I probably should have said intellectual rather then intelligent.)

It seems that nothing I listed above is a deal breaker for Kodaka. Compare that to Rita whose BL and sex crazed antics are essentially death to any romantic interest by Kodaka. So I don't put Sena out of the running, I'm just pointing out that from Kodaka's perspective I don't think she's as high up there as others are ranking her.

Someone else commented on height, Kodaka is so tall I doubt he cares much, both Rita and Yozora are much shorter than him.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Sackett

I got the list by watching the first and second season and listening to the comments Kodaka makes about each girl.

Yeah I kinda got that bit...

What I'm asking is where did you get those from. I'm asking for a reference.

You're making a lot of claims and I still don't know what they're based on.

The build quality is actually one I'm pretty sure of based on a couple comments to Rita, and at least one towards Yozora. I'm not saying Sena is unattractive, but for Kodaka his reaction towards Sena has been more muted and tends to be based on her inattentiveness to what she's showing rather then "I like big boobs."

Which wouldn't get a reaction from him in the first place if he wasn't attracted. And sometimes it's not even attentiveness in the first place (Like in the first episode of NEXT)

Sena also lacks everything on the list except for her strong will. She's blonde, plays eroges openly, is in no way demure, and while she is book smart she does not provide the same intellectual conversations that we've seen Kodaka enjoys. (Especially compared to Yozora or Rita. I probably should have said intellectual rather then intelligent.)

Yozora and Rika don't exactly provide that either. Yozora doesn't have long hair, Rika's hair isn't dark unless she colours it, neither Rika nor Yozora are demure (just introverted), and Yozora and Rika don't provide any more intellectual discussions than anyone else.

And Sena is no less chaste. I don't know what you're trying to imply and I don't want to know either...

[erdii]

well ı haven't read about the ending of anime in LN. as far as ı can from anime Kodaka doesn't love any of the girls. he may be attracted to them in a way but no one can say that he loves one of them. somehow ı get the feeling that the possiblity of Kodaka's ending up with any of the girls from the club is the same as Kodaka's ending up with student council president

they put the guy through the hell. he knows girls feelings and doesn't want to hurt them. he plays the thick headed guy yet girls push more. in the end he runs away yet he is the who got hurt. well for poor guy every choice is the same. in any way he will be left with some unhappy feelings

the only solution for him is to go for the Lolicon route

[Makoto Yuki]

Originally Posted by erdii

the only solution for him is to go for the Lolicon route

That would only be Maria's routes, that also means i need to drop the anime..

Or love this lolicon whoever she is as Kodaka
and love his bestfriend Sora as Taka, would be better.. really cant wait to see they'll call each other as Taka and Sora again! :">

[Sackett]

Originally Posted by Haak

Yeah I kinda got that bit...

What I'm asking is where did you get those from. I'm asking for a reference.

You're making a lot of claims and I still don't know what they're based on.


And Sena is no less chaste. I don't know what you're trying to imply and I don't want to know either...

No. I'm not going to go rewatch two whole seasons so I can give you episode numbers to go review. I don't care enough for that level of effort. That does not invalidate my observations.

As for Sena being less chaste, I'm not implying anything, I'm out right stating it. Sena plays openly eroges in front of the other characters, including sex scenes. Hardly what most people consider "chaste" behavior for a girl. Compare that to Yozora who is a total prude. This is an obvious thing, I'm not sure why you're getting so defensive about it.

Perhaps you think chaste refers only to one's virginal status? It does not.

chaste: Morally pure in thought or conduct; decent and modest.

Is Sena a slut? No, and I never implied or said that she was. Nor is she sexually aggressive, which is why, unlike Rita, Sena is not abhorrent to Kodaka. Still, it's pretty clear that Kodaka does not look favorably on Sena's aberrant fantasies about young girls having sex.

Good grief, I like Sena. I like Yozora. I think they're interesting characters. Personally, I wouldn't pick either of them for a girlfriend.

Just because you've signed up for team Sena is no reason to get all huffy when someone points out that the MC doesn't seem to favor her character traits. Yozora has flaws too. I'm just pointing out that from what I've seen Kodaka seems to be more likely to develop a romantic interest in Yozora then Sena- at least if it weren't for all the external forces pushing him towards Sena (ie the engagement, etc.). That, and Yozora's cowardly inability to engage with him.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Sackett

No. I'm not going to go rewatch two whole seasons so I can give you episode numbers to go review. I don't care enough for that level of effort. That does not invalidate my observations.

Sorry but yeah it kinda does. If you want to convince anyone then you have to give basis for your observations, because to otherwise I can't tell whether you're making it up or not. You made a pretty specific list so I assumed you remembered where they came from but if you don't then i have even less reason to take your word for it now. If your reasoning was based on retrospective memory then you should've mentioned that from the start.

As for Sena being less chaste, I'm not implying anything, I'm out right stating it. Sena plays openly eroges in front of the other characters, including sex scenes. Hardly what most people consider "chaste" behavior for a girl. Compare that to Yozora who is a total prude. This is an obvious thing, I'm not sure why you're getting so defensive about it.

Perhaps you think chaste refers only to one's virginal status? It does not.

chaste: Morally pure in thought or conduct; decent and modest.

Is Sena a slut? No, and I never implied or said that she was. Nor is she sexually aggressive, which is why, unlike Rita, Sena is not abhorrent to Kodaka. Still, it's pretty clear that Kodaka does not look favorably on Sena's aberrant fantasies about young girls having sex.

Oh I see so that's what you were getting at. You put Rika's BL and sex antics in another category so I assumed you didn't mean that type of chaste. XP

Good grief, I like Sena. I like Yozora. I think they're interesting characters. Personally, I wouldn't pick either of them for a girlfriend.

Just because you've signed up for team Sena is no reason to get all huffy when someone points out that the MC doesn't seem to favor her character traits. Yozora has flaws too. I'm just pointing out that from what I've seen Kodaka seems to be more likely to develop a romantic interest in Yozora then Sena- at least if it weren't for all the external forces pushing him towards Sena (ie the engagement, etc.). That, and Yozora's cowardly inability to engage with him.

I'm only getting "huffy" when at times you're saying things without a basis or if I think you're implying pretty hateful things about a character...

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Sackett

No. I'm not going to go rewatch two whole seasons so I can give you episode numbers to go review. I don't care enough for that level of effort. That does not invalidate my observations.

As for Sena being less chaste, I'm not implying anything, I'm out right stating it. Sena plays openly eroges in front of the other characters, including sex scenes. Hardly what most people consider "chaste" behavior for a girl. Compare that to Yozora who is a total prude. This is an obvious thing, I'm not sure why you're getting so defensive about it.

Yozora wrote a rape story. Not exactly chaste either.

[aliensporebomb]

Originally Posted by Makoto Yuki

I found this in Baka Tsuki.. http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/in...me_1_Afterword

and haganai is clearly about the author of this novel

My question would be: is the story going to end how her life has gone up to now or how she wanted it to end? Fascinating. I had no idea. They writers write about what they know.

There's a lot about this that kind of came close to my own life in those days but things changed drastically for the better towards the end of high school.

That being said, it's obvious there's going to need to be a season three as everything is left hanging. Interesting series, now lets take it somewhere to a conclusion Hirasaka-san.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by aliensporebomb

lets take it somewhere to a conclusion Hirasaka-san.

Quite the opposite, I have no doubt the author will milk this franchise as long as possible, from what I understand the author knows the harsh realities of the market and that most authors have only one successful manuscript in life, ending this at the height of its popularity would be crazy to say the least.

[aliensporebomb]

Originally Posted by ogon_bat

Quite the opposite, I have no doubt the author will milk this franchise as long as possible, from what I understand the author knows the harsh realities of the market and that most authors have only one successful manuscript in life, ending this at the height of its popularity would be crazy to say the least.

Indeed. Which is why a 12 episode second season seemed crazy to me. But if more material is on the way I'm all eyes/ears.