Character Discussion - Kallen

[Grey Dawn]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

He failed in that respect. He was trying to convince her he was right and she wouldn't buy it.

Not that. The part where he tricks into revealing she doesn't know who Zero is.

Theres more examples. Turn 19, tricked into fetching Lelouch, Turn 2-3, tricked by CC as Zero, etc...

Have a counter challenge, find me a time when she saw through a trick besides ZR.

[Knightrunner]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Yes. But again, are we going to condemn or dislike her for it?

I'm just stating something that could be a weakness but i'm not going to condemn or dislike her for it. It is one of the reason why I like her character. She can be a stronger character if she thinks more about herself though.
So how is this a fault exactly? She's not the only one to suffer from being around Lelouch. So is she at fault for falling in love with an amoral jackass? So does that mean she has a bad judge of character? Well then the same could be said for Shirley, Milly, and possibly C.C. and others. And she only fell for him once, BTW (or more like it was a gradual process)

Sometimes being with lelouch has its disadvantages. Almost got gun down with him. I'm not saying it is a fault but a disadvantage.
Well, then maybe you should let Grey Dawn reply to it since he's the one who does think she's extremely gullible.


So you agree with me?

Yes, I agree with you on this one.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Grey Dawn

Now what makes you so bitter I wonder.

So gullible even Suzaku can prey on her. Just look at stage 19.

I'll have to rewatch that episode.

Yeah, it's not like it lead Lelouch back to Japan which later got Shirley killed.

So, you're blaming her for being indirectly responsible for Shirley's death? Wow.

And uh, being morally judgemental is the kind of thing that leads to genocides. Suzaku also has this flaw, it severely worsened his knight templarhood. It's narrowmindedness, and it rarely helps.

Well, it all depends on how morally judgmental you are and how you act on it. On the one hand you can't be so morally judgmental that you see everything in black and white and punish everyone that disagrees with you. And on the other hand you can't be so indifferent that you just let people do whatever the f*ck they want. You have to find a nice middle ground, and I think Kallen, more or less, has a nice middle ground.

But yes, why are you complaining that she doesn't have enough flaws? To be honest, Kallen's personality isn't even the most fleshed out thing to begin with. She's certainly not a Mary Sue, unable to stop or help Lelouch during ZR, unable to bring about her dreams herself.

Eh, I don't know. I mean, KnightRunner started the whole thing with "What do people like about Kallen?" and then Paladinoras started with "I can't think of any flaws." As a person isn't that big of fan a Kallen in a forum that mostly loves Kallen, this is probably just asking for trouble right off the bat.

But anyway, I guess it's just a personal issue, but sometimes I just get so sick about people praising the hell the out of Kallen like she's Mother f*cking Teresa. I mean she's a great character, but she's not THAT great. I certainly don't think she deserves to have the biggest and longest thread on the Code Geass forum. Lelouch deserves to have a thread like that. Char Aznable deserves to have a thread like that. Kallen? No. Nosireebob.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Grey Dawn

Not that. The part where he tricks into revealing she doesn't know who Zero is.

Theres more examples. Turn 19, tricked into fetching Lelouch, Turn 2-3, tricked by CC as Zero, etc...

Have a counter challenge, find me a time when she saw through a trick besides ZR.

Falling for that simple trick isn't that bad. It's easy to catch most people off-guard with such a statement. You can't count Turn 19 against her, either. She had no reason to believe they'd up and betray both her and Zero. Turn 3 is Lelouch's planning, everyone fell for that.

Seeing through a trick is harder to pin down, I'll admit, but since most of them involve Zero it's hard to judge. However, there is for example Luciano's attempt at a cheap shot. She saw that coming a mile away, and it would have worked on anyone else. She also expected Lelouch to pull something at the UFN council.

[yvj]

1) Emotional baka

a) Kallen got jealous of C.C and got herself captured.

b) Was willing to give up her ideals at one point for love and a steadfast belief in her arguably misjudgment of Lelouch's character.

Some might see that as romantic. Others can reasonable argue it was her falling like a school girl and letting it blind her.

2) She ain't no pacifist, as we can see with her about to outright murder Suzaku out in the open. Unlike Suzaku pre ZR she had no qualms about offing the enemy (Britanians)

3) Mary Sues' don't fail Kallen's biggest failures are, failing to see through Lelouch's lies, failed to save him/Failed to kill him

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Knightrunner

I'm just stating something that could be a weakness but i'm not going to condemn or dislike her for it. It is one of the reason why I like her character. She can be a stronger character if she thinks more about herself though.

Well, that's just it, I'm not talking about weaknesses that may or may not affect her longevity, I'm talking about flaws that question her character and perhaps maybe, *gasp*, make us dislike her.

Sometimes being with lelouch has its disadvantages. Almost got gun down with him. I'm not saying it is a fault but a disadvantage.

See above statement.

[Knightrunner]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Well, that's just it, I'm not talking about weaknesses that may or may not affect her longevity, I'm talking about flaws that question her character and perhaps maybe, *gasp*, make us dislike her.


See above statement.

oooooo. I'm not sure what FLAW exactly means but I interpreted as weaknesses, disadvantages, and imperfections. Imperfections are good sometimes depending on the situations. But some of those silly flaws that were mention to Kallen shouldn't cause people to dislike here.

[Betteroffer]

I believe I went over the list of Kallen flaws already but here goes again:

1. Kallen was a Terrorist.
2. Kallen was a Racist. She states "This is why I hate Britannians" several times.
3. Kallen pulled out her knife on Lelouch for mentioning Shinjuku and on Shirley when the latter said she "knew her secret" implying that she would have been willing to kill 17 year old civilians for no other reason than to maintain her civilian cover, not for a mission.
4. Kallen's post series poem admits that she thought her fight against Britannia was pointless before Zero appeared. This means Kallen was basically continuing to fight and kill soldiers and civilians (mostly the latter as she WAS a terrorist) for essentially no reason other than to take someone down with her.
5. On Kamine island she says to Suzaku "Is this what you've become?! The name of Genbu Kururugi the Last Samurai weeps!" Using a dead relative's name in an arguement is a major d*ck move in my book, and Kallen is the last person who has any right to use such an arguement. What if Suzaku had counterd "What about Naoto's dream for you to live a normal life? Dontcha' think you're making him roll over in his grave just a wee bit?" Granted Suzaku has no way of knowing these details yet, but the arguement itself stands.
6. As said, Kallen's strong sense of justice often blends into self-righteousness.
7. Kallen ditched Lelouch on Kamine island.
8. Kallen betrays or abandons Lelouch the most out of his "Big 3" romance prospects, and arguably more times than any other character in the show, even Suzaku.
9. Kallen was disrespectful and borderline abusive to her own mother because she regards her as weak. Issues of respect aside, she could have treated her with detatched civility at least, if she didn't just try confronting her one day and asking her why the hell she stayed in the Stadtfeld house.

Kallen Kozuki:

Awesome character? Yes.

Even remotely Mary-Sue-ish? Dude, pass me whatever it is you're smoking!

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

5. On Kamine island she says to Suzaku "Is this what you've become?! The name of Genbu Kururugi the Last Samurai weeps!" Using a dead relative's name in an arguement is a major d*ck move in my book, and Kallen is the last person who has any right to use such an arguement. What if Suzaku had counterd "What about Naoto's dream for you to live a normal life? Dontcha' think you're making him roll over in his grave just a wee bit?" Granted Suzaku has no way of knowing these details yet, but the arguement itself stands.

I thought the the Last Samurai was Tom Cruise.

*FLEEEEEEZ*

[Lolipopo]

But anyway, I guess it's just a personal issue, but sometimes I just get so sick about people praising the hell the out of Kallen like she's Mother f*cking Teresa. I mean she's a great character, but she's not THAT great. I certainly don't think she deserves to have the biggest and longest thread on the Code Geass forum. Lelouch deserves to have a thread like that. Char Aznable deserves to have a thread like that. Kallen? No. Nosireebob.

Oh please? If you want less discussion about Kallen and more about Lelouch, his thread is waiting for you. Now don't be surprised to see people praising Kallen in a Kallen's thread in a forum who saw the greatest shipping war (meaning, arguments involved, not simple bashing unlike some...other places) between Kalulu, CCLulu and Shirlulu; Tl;dr : Don't be surprised seeing that in the lair of Kallen/Lelouch fans.

And when one see the treatment she gets in other place, I don't see why it's a problem is people love her here.

So about the currrent subject;
Kallen is a flawed character and that's exactly what makes her interesting. She was a terrorist, who, just like most of the terrorist, thought she was fighting for the good; It's her journey which makes her interesting. Learning she never really had hope and that Zero gave her something to believe in, her appearances at school and her newbordn friendship with the Student council, how her beliefs in Zero were shaken and how she came back anyway, how season 2 permit her to doscover the man behind the mask and fall for him, to a point where her only devotion was to him, how she was betrayed again and how she stand up anyway...

Kallen is awesome because she is far from perfect. I don't need a second Lacus Clyne, thank you very much, and I cant help but facepalm each time I see the "it's not his/her fault" argument being used (BTW, if we believe 80% of C.C.'s fans, she is the GREATEST Mary Sue ever); That's because those characters are flawed that we love them; Seing them make their way through their defaults and growing to better people...that is interesting.

#Bonus answer : I like that Kallen was able to shush season 1 arguments against her and Lelouch as a pairing in season 2. This girl accomplished my personal vendetta, hohohohohohohoh :P

[yvj]

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

Oh please? If you want less discussion about Kallen and more about Lelouch, his thread is waiting for you. Now don't be surprised to see people praising Kallen in a Kallen's thread in a forum who saw the greatest shipping war (meaning, arguments involved, not simple bashing unlike some...other places) between Kalulu, CCLulu and Shirlulu; Tl;dr : Don't be surprised seeing that in the lair of Kallen/Lelouch fans.

I missed this and its a strange notion that someone would wander into the Kallen thread and balk at the sight of people liking/talking/praising her. If you don't like Kallen or you are a person who can't decide whether he likes Kallen or hates her guts on any given day. Then why would you wander into this thread and get pissed? It makes no sense.

Secondly let's not act like Kallen is embraced by the fandom as a whole. Oh she's not the most hated character in CG but she gets a nice sizable amount of hate outside this website. And out of the romance trinity it's obvious who gets hated on the most.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by yvj

I missed this and its a strange notion that someone would wander into the Kallen thread and balk at the sight of people liking/talking/praising her. If you don't like Kallen or you are a person who can't decide whether he likes Kallen or hates her guts on any given day. Then why would you wander into this thread and get pissed? It makes no sense.

yvj, let me put it to you this way. There isn't a person in the world who wants to understand the inner workings of my mind more than I do.

Secondly let's not act like Kallen is embraced by the fandom as a whole. Oh she's not the most hated character in CG but she gets a nice sizable amount of hate outside this website. And out of the romance trinity it's obvious who gets hated on the most.

Fair enough.

And with that I'll take my leave of this thread for a while.

[Lolipopo]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

yvj, let me put it to you this way. There isn't a person in the world who wants to understand the inner workings of my mind more than I do.


Fair enough.

And with that I'll take my leave of this thread for a while.

Well, maybe you should then concentrate your efforts on character you really like. I don't know if I like Shirley or not and I'm not bothering to try to know or even care. I'd rather see my time in fandom wasted for my favorite character/Pairing whatever.

That's just an advice though, but when we see that some people were banned from AS for less than what already happened about Kallen's hate, it's bothersome to see in her thread the seeds of a new Kallen bitching war.

@ Yvj : Well, Suzaku's hate was kinda killed with ZR but anyway, Kallen stays the most controversed character in Geass. Or at least, girl.

For shipping matters, tssss.

1. Kallen was a Terrorist.
2. Kallen was a Racist. She states "This is why I hate Britannians" several times.
3. Kallen pulled out her knife on Lelouch for mentioning Shinjuku and on Shirley when the latter said she "knew her secret" implying that she would have been willing to kill 17 year old civilians for no other reason than to maintain her civilian cover, not for a mission.
4. Kallen's post series poem admits that she thought her fight against Britannia was pointless before Zero appeared. This means Kallen was basically continuing to fight and kill soldiers and civilians (mostly the latter as she WAS a terrorist) for essentially no reason other than to take someone down with her.
5. On Kamine island she says to Suzaku "Is this what you've become?! The name of Genbu Kururugi the Last Samurai weeps!" Using a dead relative's name in an arguement is a major d*ck move in my book, and Kallen is the last person who has any right to use such an arguement. What if Suzaku had counterd "What about Naoto's dream for you to live a normal life? Dontcha' think you're making him roll over in his grave just a wee bit?" Granted Suzaku has no way of knowing these details yet, but the arguement itself stands.
6. As said, Kallen's strong sense of justice often blends into self-righteousness.
7. Kallen ditched Lelouch on Kamine island.
8. Kallen betrays or abandons Lelouch the most out of his "Big 3" romance prospects, and arguably more times than any other character in the show, even Suzaku.
9. Kallen was disrespectful and borderline abusive to her own mother because she regards her as weak. Issues of respect aside, she could have treated her with detatched civility at least, if she didn't just try confronting her one day and asking her why the hell she stayed in the Stadtfeld house.

When you look at this, yeah, she is a hell of a bitch, and that's the sad thing. People often tend to just look at the first couch and tend to diregards the context, the reason. Not everything can be excused but still, even with such a list she is still one of the most morale character of the show. ( The level of morality in this show...)

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

I believe I went over the list of Kallen flaws already but here goes again:

1. Kallen was a Terrorist.
2. Kallen was a Racist. She states "This is why I hate Britannians" several times.
3. Kallen pulled out her knife on Lelouch for mentioning Shinjuku and on Shirley when the latter said she "knew her secret" implying that she would have been willing to kill 17 year old civilians for no other reason than to maintain her civilian cover, not for a mission.
4. Kallen's post series poem admits that she thought her fight against Britannia was pointless before Zero appeared. This means Kallen was basically continuing to fight and kill soldiers and civilians (mostly the latter as she WAS a terrorist) for essentially no reason other than to take someone down with her.
5. On Kamine island she says to Suzaku "Is this what you've become?! The name of Genbu Kururugi the Last Samurai weeps!" Using a dead relative's name in an arguement is a major d*ck move in my book, and Kallen is the last person who has any right to use such an arguement. What if Suzaku had counterd "What about Naoto's dream for you to live a normal life? Dontcha' think you're making him roll over in his grave just a wee bit?" Granted Suzaku has no way of knowing these details yet, but the arguement itself stands.
6. As said, Kallen's strong sense of justice often blends into self-righteousness.
7. Kallen ditched Lelouch on Kamine island.
8. Kallen betrays or abandons Lelouch the most out of his "Big 3" romance prospects, and arguably more times than any other character in the show, even Suzaku.
9. Kallen was disrespectful and borderline abusive to her own mother because she regards her as weak. Issues of respect aside, she could have treated her with detatched civility at least, if she didn't just try confronting her one day and asking her why the hell she stayed in the Stadtfeld house.

Kallen Kozuki:

Awesome character? Yes.

Even remotely Mary-Sue-ish? Dude, pass me whatever it is you're smoking!

most of this stuff i think is exaggerated a fair bit since not all of these are actual character flaws
kallen never actually betrays lelouch, and abandons him all but twice, both of which after he appears to betray her (the second time, she would have died with him otherwise)
i happen to think telling suzaku that his father would be ashamed of him was spot on, given what suzaku has become (a dog of the oppressors)
he DID after all try and get her to abandon her cause, so why shouldn't she make him question his
and i think that kallen's reaction to the proposed use of poison gas against civilians, joined by her reaction at having killed sheirly's father could mean that its possible kallen never actually knowingly killed civilians before narita (her reaction to lelouch saying that people might get dragged in even if they are innocent seems to imply this)
but i wont go into most of them because i think it wouldnt be all that useful

i WILL however address the one issue that i completely disagree with
namely the racist bit
its true that kallen comments in several points that she hates britannians
but its never "i hate britannians"
its always "this is WHY i hate britannians" and its always said following some kind of event that triggers the remark
be it milly's decision to auction off kallen's first kiss over who can find a cat, or sheirly and lelouch getting her wet due to their craziness
or be it comments by that glaston knights guy who says that japan does not exist

my point is, that kallen never displays hate of britannians based on race, only actions
she has friends in school, and bonds with the student council rather fast after meeting them
to the point of being glad to save them and worrying about them during the black rebellion (and agreeing to take shit from nina over it)

her hate of britannians seem to be based entirely on HOW they behave and WHAT they do rather then WHO they are
her talk with lelouch on the phone during ep 4 is a pretty good indication on how she views the situation and the existence of the settlement
kallen hates britannians for the same reason any non-britannian who has been conquered by them would
this is far from a unique trait to kallen, and far from being a race based one

does kallen hate britannia ?
yes
does kallen hate all britannians ?
far from it
does hating britannia/britannians for their actions make her a racist ?
hardly

[Betteroffer]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

most of this stuff i think is exaggerated a fair bit since not all of these are actual character flaws
kallen never actually betrays lelouch, and abandons him all but twice, both of which after he appears to betray her (the second time, she would have died with him otherwise)

By my count, Kallen abandons Lelouch 4 times:
On Kamine in Stage 25/Turn 2 flashback,
Shinjuku in Turn 7,
The BK betrayal in Turn 19,
and walking away from him in Turn 22

For the record I will point out that in all of these instances Lelouch does betray her first, and I don't actually count the latter two instances against her character as her leaving was precisely what Lelouch wanted her to do. Also, in Turn 7, I am not saying I felt Kallen should have agreed to comfort Lelouch (if anything I think she would be justified in giving him a beating on par with what she gave Suzaku after he "apologized" for almost using refrain on her), but she shouldn't have simply run off again.

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

i happen to think telling suzaku that his father would be ashamed of him was spot on, given what suzaku has become (a dog of the oppressors)
he DID after all try and get her to abandon her cause, so why shouldn't she make him question his

At the point Kallen says it, she has no knowledge of the truth. If anything, she should believe that Suzaku is trying to fulfill Genbu's wishes by being an Honorary Britannian. The official story is that Genbu committed suicide to stop others who were pushing for a Do-or-Die resistence. Officially, Genbu saw that resistence would only lead to more deaths and make things harder on the Japanese who tried to follow the rules.

Suzaku never brings up their friends back at Ashford, the rumors that she is dating Lelouch (the irony would be palpable), or the fact that her actions at Narita killed Shirley's father. He is self-righteous, but he is alot more courteous and respectful.

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

and i think that kallen's reaction to the proposed use of poison gas against civilians, joined by her reaction at having killed sheirly's father could mean that its possible kallen never actually knowingly killed civilians before narita (her reaction to lelouch saying that people might get dragged in even if they are innocent seems to imply this)
but i wont go into most of them because i think it wouldnt be all that useful

She believes that going after soft targets couldn't possibly lead to civlian casualties? She decried the use of the gas, but she still pulled her knife on two civilian teenagers when she didn't need to. If they knew she was a terrorist, then she could have karate-chopped them and run or just run. She didn't need to be in Ashford for any big master plan.

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

i WILL however address the one issue that i completely disagree with
namely the racist bit
its true that kallen comments in several points that she hates britannians
but its never "i hate britannians"
its always "this is WHY i hate britannians" and its always said following some kind of event that triggers the remark
be it milly's decision to auction off kallen's first kiss over who can find a cat, or sheirly and lelouch getting her wet due to their craziness
or be it comments by that glaston knights guy who says that japan does not exist

So as long as I state precisely "why" I hate another race, I'm not racist? If I find urban culture, music, dress, and attitudes to be self-agrandizing, self-destructive, and disturbingly sexist, and say these to be the reasons why I hate the race responsible then I'm not racist?

In any case, only the last example you give justifies such a comment. School shenanigans that put Kallen outside her comfort-zone do not.

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

my point is, that kallen never displays hate of britannians based on race, only actions
she has friends in school, and bonds with the student council rather fast after meeting them
to the point of being glad to save them and worrying about them during the black rebellion (and agreeing to take shit from nina over it)

Again, if a few members of a group act a certain way, does my hating the entire group for the actions of a few not make me racist? Can I look at realworld terrorism and say "This is why I hate Arabs/Muslims/whoever." and not be racist? Kallen attributes the actions of a few Britannians to the entire race.

As for the Ashford students, her opinion changes. She comes to hate the Britannian system and Britannians who happily further that system rather than all Britannians, but she hates pretty much all of them at the start.

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

her hate of britannians seem to be based entirely on HOW they behave and WHAT they do rather then WHO they are
her talk with lelouch on the phone during ep 4 is a pretty good indication on how she views the situation and the existence of the settlement
kallen hates britannians for the same reason any non-britannian who has been conquered by them would
this is far from a unique trait to kallen, and far from being a race based one

Actions speak louder than words. Stating she hates an entire race for the actions of a portion of that race (predominant or not) is still racist. If a person's actions consist of being verbally and physically abusive to different groups, then WHO they are tends to be a person who believes that they are entitled to do so.

Kallen of all people knows that the Japanese are every bit as racist and petty as the Britannians.

[Kyero Fox]

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

I believe I went over the list of Kallen flaws already but here goes again:

1. Kallen was a Terrorist.
2. Kallen was a Racist. She states "This is why I hate Britannians" several times.
3. Kallen pulled out her knife on Lelouch for mentioning Shinjuku and on Shirley when the latter said she "knew her secret" implying that she would have been willing to kill 17 year old civilians for no other reason than to maintain her civilian cover, not for a mission.
4. Kallen's post series poem admits that she thought her fight against Britannia was pointless before Zero appeared. This means Kallen was basically continuing to fight and kill soldiers and civilians (mostly the latter as she WAS a terrorist) for essentially no reason other than to take someone down with her.
5. On Kamine island she says to Suzaku "Is this what you've become?! The name of Genbu Kururugi the Last Samurai weeps!" Using a dead relative's name in an arguement is a major d*ck move in my book, and Kallen is the last person who has any right to use such an arguement. What if Suzaku had counterd "What about Naoto's dream for you to live a normal life? Dontcha' think you're making him roll over in his grave just a wee bit?" Granted Suzaku has no way of knowing these details yet, but the arguement itself stands.
6. As said, Kallen's strong sense of justice often blends into self-righteousness.
7. Kallen ditched Lelouch on Kamine island.
8. Kallen betrays or abandons Lelouch the most out of his "Big 3" romance prospects, and arguably more times than any other character in the show, even Suzaku.
9. Kallen was disrespectful and borderline abusive to her own mother because she regards her as weak. Issues of respect aside, she could have treated her with detatched civility at least, if she didn't just try confronting her one day and asking her why the hell she stayed in the Stadtfeld house.

Kallen Kozuki:

Awesome character? Yes.

Even remotely Mary-Sue-ish? Dude, pass me whatever it is you're smoking!

lol, someone needs to pay more attention when their watching/reading anime. this also seems like a pathetic attempt to get people to hate her.

[Lolipopo]

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

Kallen Kozuki:

Awesome character? Yes.

Even remotely Mary-Sue-ish? Dude, pass me whatever it is you're smoking!

And um, loool, who said that Kallen was a Mary Sue? Kallen, actually embraces the carnage of rebellion and knows, that she does bad things, in order to have a brighter future. Still, she does bad things and acknowledges it.

Also, examining epidemically a character, just to point out flaws, that get extracted from that epidermic-examination, is not a wise way to exhivit flaws. Yes, Kallen has tons of flaws, but most of them, she has acceoted them and she feels "forced" to do them, in order to achiever her dream of a peace and a better world. Started with her bro, continued with her mama, Lelouch and then the whole world. That is called "evolve" of a chara.

p.s always beats me btw, how people whine on this thread about the zomg-love Kallen gets in her own thread. Just lulz, people. God.

[Betteroffer]

Originally Posted by Kyero Fox

lol, someone needs to pay more attention when their watching/reading anime. this also seems like a pathetic attempt to get people to hate her.

You watch anime, you read manga.

And I happen to be a staunch Kallen fan and consider her one of, if not my absolute favorite character in the show.

That list was in response to several people stating that Kallen had no character flaws, and one person accusing her of being a Mary-Sue.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Kyero Fox

lol, someone needs to pay more attention when their watching/reading anime. this also seems like a pathetic attempt to get people to hate her.

actaully, betteroffer doesnt hate her at all
he's just giving examples of what he thinks are characer flaws, because someone asked if you can name any
i do think some of these cases are blown out of proportion

as for kallen hating all britannians, its established through her actions that she does NOT in fact hate them all
what she hates is their culture and behavior for completely valid reasons
and when you say "hates all britannians for the behavior of a few" then i choose to question what you mean by few

almost every britannian character on the show display some level of hostility and racism towards the elevens
with ashford being something of an island of mild tolerance (see the way suzaku is treated) within a sea of racism
britannians are more then simply a race
they are a nation, with quite a few races and shades within it
what unites them is their culture and nationality, not simply race

someone can say "i hate blacks/jews/hispanics" and be accused of racism
kind of hard to accuse someone who says "i hate americans" of being racist

[Lolipopo]

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

You watch anime, you read manga.

And I happen to be a staunch Kallen fan and consider her one of, if not my absolute favorite character in the show.

That list was in response to several people stating that Kallen had no character flaws, and one person accusing her of being a Mary-Sue.

Is that so? Who did "accuse her" of that then? Missed a few posts lately.

And Btw, being a Mary Sue is not necessarily bad, it is just, totally away from Kallen's characterization.