(L) Negima Manga Discussion

[AstroNerdBoy]

Originally Posted by Hata

Spoiler for 342:

(which begs the questions, in this timeline, does Chao even exist in the future? and if Chao exist, is Negi the one who put the magic runes on her body to send her back to the present?)

I've been thinking this might be the case for some time, though I didn't have a great way of explaining it other than a time-jump. Part of my "close the circle" thoughts.

Originally Posted by edgelesspigeon

Hey, quick question. I'm a bit of a forum lurker so I don't pop up that much really. But I have some questions about the Mage of the Beginning. From what I can tell, he's achieved immortality by possessing bodies, most notably and recently Negi's father, Nagi. He appears briefly at the end of the "Magical World" arc, before being despatched by Negi and Asuna. However, it does not appear he was killed, as Nagi, from what I can tell, shakes off the Mage's influence long enough to instruct Negi to find and kill him. According to the entry on the Mage of the Beginning at the Villains Wiki, http://villains.wikia.com/wiki/Mage_of_the_Beginning, what Negi and Asuna fought was a magical projection of the Mage of the Beginning, and the Mage was not physically present. Is this correct? And more importantly, this whole thing (the Mage possessing Negi's father, him still apparently being alive) has been completely neglected so far. So my ultimate question is, what is the status on the Mage of the Beginning? Is he still alive, or was he finished off by Negi and Asuna? Is this a plot point that's going to be resolved at a later date, or did I miss something?

Others may disagree with me, but this whole "jumping bodies" thing is just pure speculation, nothing more. I'm not saying that's not what's going on, but story-wise, I have a real problem with it the more I think about it.

Basically, as I see it, the MotB is sealed on Earth. What fought them on the Magic World would seem to be an artificial creation of the MotB's (which seems easy enough to do since all of KE appear to be artificial creations).

My own thoughts on Negi not being affected isn't so much that "well, saving my father isn't that important because I got other things to do." Negi's plans to save the Magic World could take 100-years so its not like that has to be done ASAP. To me, it is more a case of Negi understanding that this wasn't his father speaking to him but the MotB attempting to get Negi to do something that could free it (using the guise of Nagi is easy since anyone with the proper magic can do it, and the MotB would certainly have no trouble there, I'm guessing). Since the MotB is sealed, dealing with it isn't important. Negi is on the path that Nagi set him on six years ago and reinforced during the Mahora Festival.

[TheCuriousFan]

Originally Posted by AstroNerdBoy

I've been thinking this might be the case for some time, though I didn't have a great way of explaining it other than a time-jump. Part of my "close the circle" thoughts.



Others may disagree with me, but this whole "jumping bodies" thing is just pure speculation, nothing more. I'm not saying that's not what's going on, but story-wise, I have a real problem with it the more I think about it.

Explain how Zecht went from fighting the Lifemaker to being possessed by him then.

[Blank-Mage]

Also? WHY HAS NO ONE TRIED TO FIND QUEEN ARIKA.

DAMMIT.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by Blank-Mage

Also? WHY HAS NO ONE TRIED TO FIND QUEEN ARIKA.

DAMMIT.

So very, very much. I'm far more interested in what happened to her than to Nagi.

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by Tiresias

So very, very much. I'm far more interested in what happened to her than to Nagi.

I agree as well. AR was going to let Negi in on who his mother was at some point, but the question is do they even know anything as to what happened to her? I reckon Alberio, Gateau (and maybe Takamichi) knew where the than pregnant Arika was last located. I have doubts she'd abandon her own son on her own volition, so the whole scenario strikes me as odd. Perhaps they do know what became of her, and they just don't want to talk about it. Alberio didn't want to point out Nagi's fate at the time, so who knows.

[AstroNerdBoy]

Originally Posted by TheCuriousFan

Explain how Zecht went from fighting the Lifemaker to being possessed by him then.

There is NOTHING that says this is what happened -- it is fan speculation. Indeed, until this recent theory, I had always read the scene as Zecht revealing his true self to Nagi (and that's how I continue to read it). Besides, if the MotB did take over Zecht after its previous hose had been KILLED by Nagi, then why didn't MotB put Nagi down and continue with his ultimate plan rather than wait another 10-years? As I see it, Nagi defeated Zecht, Zecht held on to give his speech, then Zecht dissolved into petals (or whatever), then was regenerated again. I see Nagi's post-fight depression not in the sense that Zecht was taken over (because were that the case, one would think Nagi would do something about that), but that the one they'd traveled with and who taught him turned out to be working with the enemy.

Think about this -- EVERY KE member that has been killed has been brought back to life by whatever system KE uses. None of them switched bodies and I don't believe the MotB is jumping bodies either. I think that in the end, we'll see that Amateru and her partner are very much alive and the founders of KE.

Originally Posted by Blank-Mage

Also? WHY HAS NO ONE TRIED TO FIND QUEEN ARIKA.

DAMMIT.

She's been kind of a red herring in some ways, as I see it.

Until the Magic World arc, Negi didn't give a rat's rear about his mother. He only cared about following his father's footsteps and never once said a peep about a mother. Then out of the blue, "Oh, here's your mother, the Arika of Ostia. And your dad had the hots for her and eventually, got to knock boots with her." (A little "old school" lingo there.) Arika's story has been interesting, but at times, I can't shake the red herring feeling around her. We'll see though.

[TheCuriousFan]

Think about this -- EVERY KE member that has been killed has been brought back to life by whatever system KE uses.

Only the constructs have been brought back and I am going on the assumption that the body surf is the Lifemaker's unique ability rather than a standard one.

Besides, if the MotB did take over Zecht after its previous hose had been KILLED by Nagi, then why didn't MotB put Nagi down and continue with his ultimate plan rather than wait another 10-years?

He assumed the spell designed to take out the entire magic world would kill Nagi?

And it probably took a few years for the Lifemaker to make new constructs and form a plan.

I had always read the scene as Zecht revealing his true self to Nagi (and that's how I continue to read it).

If he was CE from the start why didn't he kill Nagi and the others in their sleep? why kill one of the constructs in the final battle? why try to shield Ala Rubra from the Lifemaker's attack after he took out Nagi?

[AstroNerdBoy]

If he was CE from the start why didn't he kill Nagi and the others in their sleep? why kill one of the constructs in the final battle? why try to shield Ala Rubra from the Lifemaker's attack after he took out Nagi?

For the same reason chibi-mage stopped one of the Fate's to allow Negi to do his thing. ^_~

[TheCuriousFan]

Originally Posted by AstroNerdBoy

For the same reason chibi-mage stopped one of the Fate's to allow Negi to do his thing. ^_~

He decided CE had the wrong idea and decided to give the opposition's plan a try?

[edgelesspigeon]

Thanks for the info. But is this going to be left hanging or eventually resolved is what I'm also wondering?

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by edgelesspigeon

Thanks for the info. But is this going to be left hanging or eventually resolved is what I'm also wondering?

I can almost guarantee there will be some form of confrontation with the Lifemaker at some point. Bad guys that boarder line on divinity rarely stay sealed the way they should.

[chaosprophet]

Originally Posted by AstroNerdBoy

There is NOTHING that says this is what happened -- it is fan speculation. Indeed, until this recent theory, I had always read the scene as Zecht revealing his true self to Nagi (and that's how I continue to read it). Besides, if the MotB did take over Zecht after its previous hose had been KILLED by Nagi, then why didn't MotB put Nagi down and continue with his ultimate plan rather than wait another 10-years? As I see it, Nagi defeated Zecht, Zecht held on to give his speech, then Zecht dissolved into petals (or whatever), then was regenerated again. I see Nagi's post-fight depression not in the sense that Zecht was taken over (because were that the case, one would think Nagi would do something about that), but that the one they'd traveled with and who taught him turned out to be working with the enemy.

Think about this -- EVERY KE member that has been killed has been brought back to life by whatever system KE uses. None of them switched bodies and I don't believe the MotB is jumping bodies either. I think that in the end, we'll see that Amateru and her partner are very much alive and the founders of KE.

I also wasn't much for the body possessing theory, but after ch 326 coupled with scenes on 325, I started giving it more credit. On ch 326 we see "Zect" acting as the leader of KE, seemingly being addressed by the constructs as their master, speaking in the same way as Life Maker does, and using the same clothes/cape LM used all the times we saw it appear. Even though scenes on 325 and on Rakan's movies indicates that at the battle 20 years ago, Zect and LM were two different individuals.

Originally Posted by AstroNerdBoy

She's been kind of a red herring in some ways, as I see it.

Until the Magic World arc, Negi didn't give a rat's rear about his mother. He only cared about following his father's footsteps and never once said a peep about a mother. Then out of the blue, "Oh, here's your mother, the Arika of Ostia. And your dad had the hots for her and eventually, got to knock boots with her." (A little "old school" lingo there.) Arika's story has been interesting, but at times, I can't shake the red herring feeling around her. We'll see though.

Nekane probably served as a mother figure to Negi so he didn't miss one as much as a dad figure. From what we saw on Negi past at the village he was very aware who his father is and that he was a hero. While in opposition they probably never talked about who was his mother, even if they knew it, as it should be a big deal that she was not only alive but had a children. Also another reason Negi cared so much about his father was, besides the fact they told him he was dead, Negi himself knew he was still alive after meeting him that day. When it comes to his mom, they probably told him she died and he had no reason to think otherwise.

[AstroNerdBoy]

Originally Posted by TheCuriousFan

He decided CE had the wrong idea and decided to give the opposition's plan a try?

Nah. As I see it, the true leaders of CE have a goal and they've come up with what they feel is the best plan to save the world. However, these same leaders would appear to be interested in seeing what someone else has in mind as a plan to save the world. They give them a chance and if they decide that the plan isn't going to get the job done, CE reserves the right to go forward with their own plan. I see that reflected in Fate at the moment.

Originally Posted by chaosprophet

I also wasn't much for the body possessing theory, but after ch 326 coupled with scenes on 325, I started giving it more credit. On ch 326 we see "Zect" acting as the leader of KE, seemingly being addressed by the constructs as their master, speaking in the same way as Life Maker does, and using the same clothes/cape LM used all the times we saw it appear. Even though scenes on 325 and on Rakan's movies indicates that at the battle 20 years ago, Zect and LM were two different individuals.

What is happening in 326 when Zecht is there and Fate awakens? You see his Ala Rubra outfit being (magically) covered by MotB clothing. As I saw it, this was Zecht resuming his role within CE because Nagi failed. MotB created the Magic World. As I see it (and I admit, I could be wrong), I think the woman MotB might very well be Amateru. I can see Zecht being her partner or even the MotB (it would fit symmetry since Eva and Negi were children when they became immortal). We already know that Zecht was called a youkai, not a human, and that he is very old.

There were also remarks regarding Zect's "death" in 267 and how there was surprise about it. Jack said he thought "that youkai" wouldn't die no matter how many times you killed him. Sound familiar? It should because that's how Negi has just been described. Deathless.

Earlier in the chapter, Zecht says that Nagi wasn't able to change anything, thus Zecht had rated Nagi's plan a failure. The scanlation uses "my," but the Twins went with "our" when Zecht basically curses Nagi to know his (our) 2600 years of despair. The Twins used "our" because they said it better fit the context of what was being said and the word used can be translated as "our" or "my." So, it is clear to me that Akamatsu-sensei is muddying the waters when he chooses a word that has two meanings. If the correct meaning is "our," then I'm correct and Zecht isn't possessed but revealing whom he truly is after Nagi defeated the female (or whomever). However, it if it "my," then yeah, the possession theory has more weight.

The possession theory may be the right one, but my sense of things is that this isn't correct; the chapters you cited as giving you pause to consider that theory caused me the opposite reaction.

Nekane probably served as a mother figure to Negi so he didn't miss one as much as a dad figure. From what we saw on Negi past at the village he was very aware who his father is and that he was a hero. While in opposition they probably never talked about who was his mother, even if they knew it, as it should be a big deal that she was not only alive but had a children. Also another reason Negi cared so much about his father was, besides the fact they told him he was dead, Negi himself knew he was still alive after meeting him that day. When it comes to his mom, they probably told him she died and he had no reason to think otherwise.

I agree that Nekane acted as a motherly-figure which is why Negi called her "oneechan." (As an aside, it is interesting that Asuna has been cited as looking very similar to Nekane and smelling like Nekane.)

However, here's the issue: Nagi never saw Negi born. Negi's village all knew Nagi. It seems rather unlikely that they wouldn't know Negi's mother, especially since she is Queen Arika. Otherwise, how would they take a newborn and accept the claim that this was the son of the infamous Nagi. To accept such a claim, they would either need some massive, mind-altering spell cast on the entire village to make them believe this tale without proof OR they know the truth. Arrangements would seem to have been made by Nagi to have his child raised in that village, probably his own home village. Those arrangements would likely have also included giving birth to Negi.

That's how I see it, at least. ^_^

[Roger Rambo]

Shit's gotten whacked lately!


Also. Mana illustration. from the back of volume 20.

Spoiler for Mana:

[Von Himmel]

Spoiler:

http://vetus.wordpress.com/2011/11/01/period-343/
Seems like my speculation were true...Negi is trying to absorb Eva's magic the same way he did with Rakan

[Hata]

I was holding onto this because I REALLY want a confirmation before posting, I guess Vetus's post confirms it, even if it comes four days late, which means RH version should be out soon, I was even wondering if I should post this late, oh well. C'est la vie

this was what I wrote on Asuna last week.

Spoiler for 342:

I used to think that what she paid is getting back her full memory, now I am not sure with the way Ken set it up, (too easy with no consequence) being a future human sacrifice is too much for a shonen story I think, another possible guess is Asuna might loss her immortalness.

I am actually not that far off in my guess, but now my guess is this will NOT be how Negima will end, I will expect a change of equations with the next coming arc which will solve the problem. plenty of substitutes are available I think.

Spoiler for 343:

15 pages, the first 2 pages of C344 will be transposed to C343 in BK37

Period 343 Eternal Farewell
upon graduation, Asuna will be sealed at the Grave Master's temple as foundation for the new Magic World, since the personalty of "Asuna" is something new with only 10 years of memory, it is expected after a hundred year of sleep the personalty of "Asuna" will disappear with only the personalty of the twilight princess left.

the duel ended in a draw with a Negi sneeze which turns both Asuna and Eva totally naked.

me? I can see the ending now.

Spoiler:

either they are going to find a substitute for Asuna (Arika/Nagi/LM/TM, etc), or Asuna will awake 100 years later STILL REMEMBERS Negi.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Hata

me? I can see the ending now.

Spoiler:

either they are going to find a substitute for Asuna (Arika/Nagi/LM/TM, etc), or Asuna will awake 100 years later STILL REMEMBERS Negi.

That works perfectly.

Spoiler for perfect ending:

Negi is semi-immortal, right? Then he would still be alive when Asuna wakes up. Asuna route END

[TnAdct1]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

That works perfectly.

Spoiler for perfect ending:

Negi is semi-immortal, right? Then he would still be alive when Asuna wakes up. Asuna route END

The problem with that: people want something fresh for an ending.

Spoiler:

Going the "Negi and Asuna reunite after a 100 years" route is pretty much a repeat of the "Keitaro/Naru" route.

A fresher approach would be to have Negi end up with someone else, then have the ancestor of Negi and his bride (who says Chao is an only child) fall for Asuna, continuing her attraction with those people of the Springfield bloodline

[Om Nerabdator]

Originally Posted by TnAdct1

A fresher approach would be to have Negi end up with someone else, [/spoiler]

HELL NO!!!

plz no more ichigo 100% nightmares!!

[Kurush]

Originally Posted by TnAdct1

Spoiler:

Going the "Negi and Asuna reunite after a 100 years" route is pretty much a repeat of the "Keitaro/Naru" route.

A fresher approach would be to have Negi end up with someone else, then have the ancestor of Negi and his bride (who says Chao is an only child) fall for Asuna, continuing her attraction with those people of the Springfield bloodline

Patterns are boring, anyway. This would definitely form into a pattern in Ken's mangas and therefore become predictable.

So I'm supporting Honya-kun's hypothesis on this take.