Nanoha Cross-over Discussion Thread

[Justin_Brett]

No, no. I don't like Force, but you can't seriously compare anything in it to

Spoiler:

one of Spider-Man's most hated foes switching bodies with him, letting him die, stealing his status as a superhero and identity, and macking on his girlfriend. And these comics are all about business, so the writer responsible and whoever signed off on it legitimately think that will drum up business, even though it's the worst idea I've ever heard of.

.

[Lhklan]

I find it hard to believe that Marvel lesser heroes will be stomped that easily. Sure, they might be defeated, but these guys never went down that easily.
Beside, what define lesser heroes anyway? Less appearances? Weaker power?

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Lhklan

I find it hard to believe that Marvel lesser heroes will be stomped that easily. Sure, they might be defeated, but these guys never went down that easily.
Beside, what define lesser heroes anyway? Less appearances? Weaker power?

A combination of both xD Marvel's featured Teams aren't all high tiers but at least include one or two members of such category on their ranks (The Avengers have Thor, Hulk and Scarlet Witch ...the X.Men have Phoenix, Storm and Emma Frost to name some) ...but there are tons and tons of teams who aren't nearly as strong or well coordinated ...or their luck with writers just plain suck (most X-Men spin-off teams suffer badly form this) there's also a chart of sorts separating the power of heroes able to deal with cosmic level threats, world threats ...right down to street level heroes who goes after burglars of costume-themed "super" villains xDU. While that isn't a de-facto reason to shrug off a hero (again, Spider-Man being more or less a street-level hero has dealt with very heavy stuff ...one of the reasons why he's so darn popular and awesome xD) it's still a very potential deterrent to step them aside when things get very ugly.

The Huckebein are capable of taking easily on say ...The Masters of Evil and i'm confident they can beat most of the Bortherhood of Evil mutants sans for the biggest sticks (Magneto and Juggernaut ...guess Curren herself could deal with those two) . But their anti-magic could possibly gather the attention of some villains wanting to deal with mystical threats like Thor or Dr. Strange (Juggernaut is magical in nature so in a sense the Hucks also have a good advantage over him).

Taking Anti-Magic and AEC-crap out of the picture the Nanoha cast ..with their original powers and devices are slightly above City level threats and can even deal with country level foes if they fight togheter which put them on a good spot among the Marvel Universe power-wise (still below World/Cosmic level heroes like Thor, Silver Surfer or the Sentry ...but everyone else in the Maverlverse is below them so it's still fair game xD).

[Lhklan]

... You know, I can't but feel that just maybe you're valuing the Hucks a bit too high.

Also, different verse mean different rule of magic. Just because the Hucks can cancel Nanohaverse magic doesn't mean they can also automatically cancel Marvelverse magic.

There's a reason why cross overs mechanic's a bitch to balance.

[Justin_Brett]

Except for how their anti-magic specifically only works on Nanoha magic and wouldn't do anything to how people in Marvel use it. And without that in the equation, they're nothing special. How many people in the Marvel universe have healing factors?

[bhl88]

It probably works on magic (those that specifically use magic)

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Lhklan

...Just because the Hucks can cancel Nanohaverse magic doesn't mean they can also automatically cancel Marvelverse magic.

...doesn't mean they automatically can't either xDU

Dr. Strange works trough chant, spell formulas and magic circles ...pretty much the stuff Eclipse can cancel ..and even in the case those doesn't work there's Curren who arguably could pósses the power to shut off magic period. We also saw Signum being treated like a child by Cypha because she's a magical being, something that will be troublesome for certain beings in the Marvelverse like Ghost Rider for example.

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

Except for how their anti-magic specifically only works on Nanoha magic and wouldn't do anything to how people in Marvel use it. And without that in the equation, they're nothing special. How many people in the Marvel universe have healing factors?

Aside of their anti-magic the top Hucks are ridculously powerfull (they break shinny new AEC-toys like it those were made of cardboard, Cypha break Signum's pretty special-alloy shield with her bare fingers). They're nowhere close to Hulk or Thor but are far above from Wolverine's league (i'm pretty sure Deville can curbstomp Colossus without much trouble, heck he's basically Colossus and Nightcrawler merged into one xDU). Not to mention their healing factor is top level (Cypha's feat of regrowing an arm within seconds could take hours for Wolverine or Deadpool to accomplish). they're flight capable, they have pwoerfull weaponry and most of them have firepower able to compete with heavyhitters like Cyclops or The human Torch.

It's less about the Hucks being more pwoerfull and more about them having more powers than most marvel heroes who are one-trick-ponies.

What i've said about the Master of Evil is pretty closer to the truth, the only two real menaces on the team are The Abomination and Wonder Man (Amora the Enchantress is already screwed by being a sorcerer xDU).

The only "magic" i tought they would have troubles with is that from primordial or reality warping beings like Silver Surfer, Scarlet Witch, Surtur, Odin or the like (you know, cosmic-level beings).

[bhl88]

Magneto is what EC users will have trouble with if Dividers are made of metal except on those who rely on fists

[Lhklan]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

...doesn't mean they automatically can't either xDU

Dr. Strange works trough chant, spell formulas and magic circles ...pretty much the stuff Eclipse can cancel ..and even in the case those doesn't work there's Curren who arguably could pósses the power to shut off magic period. We also saw Signum being treated like a child by Cypha because she's a magical being, something that will be troublesome for certain beings in the Marvelverse like Ghost Rider for example.

Eclipse works by severing the link between the spell and the caster. And in Nanohaverse, the mana came from inside the user.

Ghost Rider got his power from a contract with Mephisto. Unless the Hucks can cancel contract, I sincerely doubt they can do anything to him.

As for Dr Strange... here's his profile:

http://outskirtsbattledome.wikispace...+%28classic%29

http://marvel.wikia.com/Stephen_Strange_(Earth-616)

As you can see, he doesn't just use his own energy. He also manipulate the energy around him and channel that of those that empower him. So unless the Hucks can stop the energy in the environment or have some transdimensional (And I don't mean the one in Nanohaverse BTW), they're fucked.

Beside, Strange regularly tangles with the like of Dormammu. DO you really think the Hucks can stand a chance? I think not.

[Justin_Brett]

Ghost Rider's main form of attack is making his victim feel guilt for every bad thing they've done.

I don't think the Hucks will be able to beat him.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Lhklan

Eclipse works by severing the link between the spell and the caster. And in Nanohaverse, the mana came from inside the user.

We've started wrong here... the Linker Core gather mana, it doesn't produces it.

Besides, severing a Link dispells any use of mana that is formed trough nexus and conection ...such a Starlight Breaker (a collective spell who gathers mana from the surroundings) or the cannon of a giant battleship.

Originally Posted by Lhklan

Ghost Rider got his power from a contract with Mephisto. Unless the Hucks can cancel contract, I sincerely doubt they can do anything to him.

If the contract is a sort of a link or posses a magical structure then the skull chopper is screwed. It also goes backwards, with their anti-magic on his flames and hellish stunts will be pretty useless against them as well (just ask Agito xDU).

Originally Posted by Lhklan

As for Dr Strange...

As you can see, he doesn't just use his own energy. He also manipulate the energy around him and channel that of those that empower him. So unless the Hucks can stop the energy in the environment or have some transdimensional (And I don't mean the one in Nanohaverse BTW), they're fucked.

And? we had saw the Eclipse beat magic that gets power from the surroundings, what matter is not the amount of power but the method, if you don't have a method to gather magic that doesn't involve using methodical formula you're screwed against the huck no matter if you have godlike powers.

Originally Posted by Lhklan

Beside, Strange regularly tangles with the like of Dormammu. DO you really think the Hucks can stand a chance? I think not.

The A's cast can stand up against cosmic horrors and win ...that didn't helped one bit against the Huckebein. Again is not a matter of strenght (power-wise the A's cast should be stronger than the Hucks and pretty much any villain from StrikerS onwards ...it's just that Anti-Magic is that bad of a bitch xDU). Again is not the amount of power, it's the method, almost any orthodox magical user/being is doomed against the Hucks unless they use magic in a more natural way (that's why i think beings like Silver Surfer or Odin can beat the Eclipse Effect because they don't need to perform spells or stablish a way for magic to work, they just raise their fingers and things happen ...a sort of "true magic").

As for the Ghost Rider, the only potentially usefull ability in his arsenal is his skull stare and that's assuming the Hucks can't bleck magical attacks to their minds (according to some people Laevatein breaks just by being in contact with Cypha's contaminated body remember?). Besides, i'm pretty sure Curren can pull off something like fighting him with her eyes close or looking at his feet at all times. So far she has shown to be and hyper competent fighter.

The Hucks aren't invincible ...as long as you're not fool enough to send magic users against them (right Signum?). Why risk the live of the good doctor if you have powerfull mutants and smart scientists who can develope effective coutnermeasures against them? After the first raid i'm pretty sure Spidey and Reed Richards could come up with something effective to battle them.

[Sansker]

I agree with Akiyoshi but not on the mind stuff. So far magic users on the Nanohaverse are able to communicate with their minds but never used as a weapon so it will seem this is only a thing to talk so I don’t really think they can resist the Ghost Rider power.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

If the contract is a sort of a link or posses a magical structure then the skull chopper is screwed. It also goes backwards, with their anti-magic on his flames and hellish stunts will be pretty useless against them as well (just ask Agito xDU).

It's more demonic power, really. Which needs not be magical in nature. And it doesn't attack your mind, it burns out your very soul. Given that no Nanoha magic has ever shown to affect the soul, we can safely say Ghost Rider's power works on a whole different level.

[Justin_Brett]

Yeah, and if you said their Anti-Magic wouldn't work on primordial stuff, Ghost Rider is either a demon or an angel, both of which count.

Dormammu's also the lord of his own dimension if I have it right, so he's a bit of a step above the Book of Darkness. This is some pretty bad Huck-wank all around.

[Sansker]

Well to be fair I don't think anyone should be able to stand if we put guys likes gods or forces of the universe on the stage. So really the Hucks and manu other will get their ass handle around by beings like Odin, Silver Surffer or Dormammu

[Lhklan]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

We've started wrong here... the Linker Core gather mana, it doesn't produces it.

Besides, severing a Link dispells any use of mana that is formed trough nexus and conection ...such a Starlight Breaker (a collective spell who gathers mana from the surroundings) or the cannon of a giant battleship.

So? I said taht the mage's BODY produces the mana, NOT the Linker Core.

If the contract is a sort of a link or posses a magical structure then the skull chopper is screwed. It also goes backwards, with their anti-magic on his flames and hellish stunts will be pretty useless against them as well (just ask Agito xDU).

Agito is a Unison Device. Mephistopheles is a freaking extra-dimensional demon. He's also the goddamn ruler of his own dimension. There's really no comparison, is there?

Also, I took a look at Ghost Rider's power. Guess what, it came from a demon INSIDE him. The name is Zarathos. So unless they can separate those two, the skull chopper stil win. And no, his flames won't be negated. IFrom the wiki: Hellfire is an emphyreal and supernatural flame that burns the soul of a person and can be used to burn their physical body. And since the Hucks don't show any resistant to that kind of fuckery, they're still screwed.

And? we had saw the Eclipse beat magic that gets power from the surroundings, what matter is not the amount of power but the method, if you don't have a method to gather magic that doesn't involve using methodical formula you're screwed against the huck no matter if you have godlike powers.

Bolded the bigest problem in your argument. Strange doesn't use the same formula as the one in Nanoha, is there? It's like comparing Linux and Windows. Just because one program works on one system doesn't automaticaly mean that it will works on the other.

The A's cast can stand up against cosmic horrors and win ...that didn't helped one bit against the Huckebein. Again is not a matter of strenght (power-wise the A's cast should be stronger than the Hucks and pretty much any villain from StrikerS onwards ...it's just that Anti-Magic is that bad of a bitch xDU). Again is not the amount of power, it's the method, almost any orthodox magical user/being is doomed against the Hucks unless they use magic in a more natural way (that's why i think beings like Silver Surfer or Odin can beat the Eclipse Effect because they don't need to perform spells or stablish a way for magic to work, they just raise their fingers and things happen ...a sort of "true magic").

As for the Ghost Rider, the only potentially usefull ability in his arsenal is his skull stare and that's assuming the Hucks can't bleck magical attacks to their minds (according to some people Laevatein breaks just by being in contact with Cypha's contaminated body remember?). Besides, i'm pretty sure Curren can pull off something like fighting him with her eyes close or looking at his feet at all times. So far she has shown to be and hyper competent fighter.

The Hucks aren't invincible ...as long as you're not fool enough to send magic users against them (right Signum?). Why risk the live of the good doctor if you have powerfull mutants and smart scientists who can develope effective coutnermeasures against them? After the first raid i'm pretty sure Spidey and Reed Richards could come up with something effective to battle them.

You're comparing the Defense Program, a planet buster at best, to Dormammu, someone who's Universal level with the right conditions? And what the fuck is orthodox magic?

As for Ghost Rider, the Penance Stare doesn't just mindfuck people. It can also soulfuck. So no, Hucks still die. And really, do you think that closing her eyes would works? Do you really think that she's the first one to use that tactics?

... I think I see the problem. They beat SIgnum, your idol => They're super strong. Is that it?

[bhl88]

So is Touma "Fukou da"-san effective against everyone (touch barrier jackets and they disintegrate for fanservice)

Vita: Hah, nothing ha- *clothes shred* O///O YOU MONSTER! *slap*

[Rising Dragon]

It's "Anything supernatural", be it psychic or magic, but it's depiction on how far it works is a bit... odd.

But for all intents and purposes yeah, he could tank a Starlight Breaker and yeah, he'd probably make some poor girl's barrier jacket explode.

[Justin_Brett]

As long as you're a decent close-up fighter though, beating up Touma shouldn't be that hard. Italicized for obvious reasons.

[Lhklan]

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

As long as you're a decent close-up fighter though, beating up Touma shouldn't be that hard. Italicized for obvious reasons.

Signum, Vita and Zafira would naturally kick his ass, due to the fact that they relies on close combat more than many others.