2010-06-27, 14:31 | Link #11821 | ||
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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But if "The Other Battler" was indeed born, but died immediately, Beatrice would know, if she knows of the baby swapping incident, because the description of this incident implies that the other baby, if one was born, actually died. ...wait a moment. Quote:
But what about Japanese?
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2010-06-27, 14:36 | Link #11822 |
Ace Detective
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MIA
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I don't know. Listen, it's fine to want the second Battler dead so as to not have him or her endanger the story, but a miscarriage? I mean, come now. This is just becoming a bit nitpicky. Being born dead seems a bit silly.
I suppose you are operating on the simultaneous pregnancy theory, in which Kyrie's baby "died" and Asumu's baby did not? (Except as we know that would be the opposite way around?) Why don't we just assume, if we want to assume that the baby is dead, that the baby was born from Asumu, and then died a few minutes later due to complications? That's a perfectly valid way of achieving the same thing, without having to equivocate the hell out of the text. |
2010-06-27, 14:40 | Link #11825 |
Ace Detective
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MIA
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T'would also explain why two babies are named Battler.
Asumu's baby is to be known as Battler, it ends up being dead, so Rudolf names the other one Battler. .....Dude's a bit of a jerk. Edit: So, if the name exists, it means the person is alive? |
2010-06-27, 14:41 | Link #11826 | ||
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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2010-06-27, 14:43 | Link #11827 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Frankly, if you want my opinion, I don't think she COULD say "Ushiromiya Battler is not the culprit". I don't think Ryukishi would have brought up the possibility without it being resolved in some way. |
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2010-06-27, 14:48 | Link #11830 |
Ace Detective
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MIA
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Episode 8: The Penultimate finale for the second to last time of the Golden Witch
Bernkaselerinedelta: NO BATTLER OF WOMEN BORN CAN DEFEAT ME! Battler: I AM NOT BORN OF WOMEN! I WAS FROM MY MOTHER'S WOMB, UNTIMELY RIPPED! Well, it seems in regards to the VN, the clear answer is that the other Battler is dead. And yet, that hasn't been said in red. I think episode 7 shall shed the light on this mystery, right now we're at an impasse of knowing that a Battler was born from Asumu, but not quite knowing the implications of that. |
2010-06-27, 14:49 | Link #11831 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Yeah it's been brought up already in the past. But with all due respect to Shakespeare and his wonderful works that explanation is lame. Maybe it worked four hundred years ago, but today is a no no.
Plus, Battler is not asumu's son shouldn't leave that doubt...
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2010-06-27, 14:53 | Link #11832 |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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It means that we don't know if the person is dead, alive but somewhere else entirely, or alive and hiding in between the dwellers of Rokkenjima, even unaware of the fact that "Battler" is their proper name. This is still enough for any use of "Battler" in red to create ambiguity.
From a literary point of view, it's too late in the story for a Chekov's gun -- that "Other Battler" has to either fire right now and Be Important, or just be a trick to confuse us (and Our Battler) for the next few years that Beatrice knowingly uses as her last serious weapon. I vote for the second, since the Other Battler never actually resolves to anything important before the story ends. Unless Beatrice has cooked up something clever in which she is the Other Battler, so that lets her somehow bypass "I am not you." and be on the island physically to kill Our Battler in the end.
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2010-06-27, 15:02 | Link #11833 |
Ace Detective
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MIA
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Well, as I said before, Piece Beato could very well be the other Battler. It would explain why she knew how to snare him in the manner she did, but then again, in her end of episode 4 red text, she did say "You are the only one alive", thus using the second person and kinda not having any room to sneaky by with.
And as for the story, well, right now there are 5 characters who we need to be clarified about above all else. Rudolf and Kyrie are two, Shannon, Kanon, and Jessica would be three. All five of these characters have things about them that in light of recent revelations would be nice to be focused on. The second Battler theory helps solve for Rudolf and Kyrie in a manner, and also helps explain the truly headaching ordeal that is Shannon, Jessica, and Kanon. But these things are issues we'll continue to worry about, because we don't have all the pieces to the puzzle. |
2010-06-27, 15:12 | Link #11834 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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右代宮戦人。@今から私が、あなたを殺します。 Ushiromiya Battler. I will now...kill you. It is possible that at this moment, Our Battler is already dead! Beatrice is referring to the Other Battler, herself, and describing her plan to commit suicide!
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2010-06-27, 15:18 | Link #11835 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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On the miscarriage/stillbirth thing. As Jan-Poo said, the anime changed "miscarriage" to "stillbirth" and ep6 reiterated it.
It was not a translation error, ep3 unambiguously said "miscarriage." However, it seems that this was the author's mistake. It is very clear that Kyrie actually gave birth, but believes that her baby was born dead.
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2010-06-27, 15:24 | Link #11836 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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The only question, then, is what he did with Asumu's baby. |
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2010-06-27, 15:36 | Link #11838 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Quote:
Seriously though, there's a few problems with Rudolf switching babies...
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2010-06-27, 15:54 | Link #11840 |
Wild Speculator
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: 13th Hierarchical City Kagutsuchi
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Curse you timing issues! First you deny me my M16/Philipine sniper rifle and now Natsuhi's extra baby!? CURSE THEE!!
Question though, have we ever found out who is older between Jessica and Battler? I just checked a umineko wiki and it says Battler is a year older, but I don't trust it and from my vague novel knowledge I know they're roughly the same age but if Battler is older then I can think of one way timing issues wouldn't be so bad. What if: we can trust Natsuhi's narrative but only to a certain extent. For example, she really did receive a child from Rudolph but not in the timing that she describes. Furthermore the real reason she killed the child was because she found out she was pregnant with Jessica. Other Battler problem solved? |
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