[MANGA] Bleach Chapter 496 Discussion

[kitten320]

That was the most stupid thing ever!
a) Why did they need 4 captains to do it at once?! And if captains need bankai to fight then what kind of help did they plan to get from VCs? Especially Soi Fon from Omaeda, she never trusted him!
b) Why not make a test and ask Renji or someone else with bankai (not captain) to do it as an experiment instead of wasting captains bankais!
c) Since when is Soi Fon using her bankai so casually? Isn't it supposed to destroy half of the SS along with every other shinigami in the area. Besides it will smash her in the closest building.
d) She is a much better fighter as hand to hand with shikai not bankai.
c) The only thing that helps to calm down annoying character haters is that everyone's' favorite Bykuaya and Hitsugaya got trolled too so it's not "Soi Fon and Komamura suck, that's why!".
d) Kubo has a stupid fascination of delaying to show characters shikais/bankai for this or that reason but once he shows them, he instantky forgets all the reasons and logic before and makes character use them all the time when not even needed (Soi Fon's bankai is the best example).
e) If Zaraki will by some accident discover shikai or bankai I'm sure he will use it all the time after that.

[Mateus]

Uh oh, time to call in the Royal Guard...or Zaraki

[astrallionheart]

Originally Posted by WONDERMIKE

I'm a bit pissed Zaraki is not around, I can't wait to see him going "so what?" on the bankai stealing thing.

That's because at this point Zaraki would solo the Vandenreich as Kubo confirmed he has transcendental reiatsu

Need some plot device to keep him busy.

[Makender]

Considering Zaraki's transcendental reiatsu and its hax potential, could it be that he fights Azashiro at this time? I know it was assumed that their fight occurred during the timeskip, but it would explain his absence now and effectively remove him from plot-breaking whatever little plot there is by soloing everyone and everything.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Solace

1. The invaders arrived at different points. So the Captains had to formulate a plan based on the possibility of multiple fronts, since communication during battle would be limited if not impossible.

Except we saw in the SS arc that thier are kido spells that allow for instant mass communication.

3. So the Captains (wrongly) assumed they could simply Bankai, figure out the seal, break it, and get the Bankai back. This would put them back on equal ground with the invaders who can also Bankai.

Assuming they can break the seal was in and of itself a high stakes gamble

4. The Captains who used the Bankai are hardly helpless without it, but someone like Renji can't afford to lose it because that's pretty much his biggest trump card.

Except for that part where byakuya acknowledged that their enemies were powerful enough that they could not be beaten by Bankai



In short, a far more intelligent plan would have been to have all the captains hold off the intruders while Renji sacrifices his own Bankai... Byakuya would then contact the other captains and tell them how it works so that they can figure out how to disable the ability before they use their bankai (namely in this case it would be disarming the enemy of the item they use)... This way only the bankai of a measly VC need be sacrificed, instead of FOUR CAPTAINS.


What would be even better would be for Byakuya and Renji to do this with Mayuri by their side so that he could observe the seal in action as he is the most likely person to be able to figure out how to counter it.

[Makender]

Only feasible explanation for four captains to get their bankais stolen is perhaps to put more brains in how to break the seal or whatever. IE if Renji and Byakuya were to fail in figuring out how to break it maybe another team could figure it out and then mass communicate how to do it to everyone else.

[Marcus H.]

Is there anyone that does not have a sarcastic attitude towards Bleach right now?

*raises hand*

What if Zaraki is now dealing with making the Zero Squad show up?

[sayde]

^^I got a strong hunch that these guys don't need a messenger to know what's going down right now in the seireitei. I joked about it before, but I was kind of serious when I stated that these guys are probably watching things from a magic crystal ball...watching w/ facepalms all around.

[Xagzan]

Originally Posted by Randrak42

*Aizen in his cell, hitting his head against a wall*
"I LOST TO THESE PEOPLE!?"

Technically, he didn't

[Lumilicious]

I am actually surprised that Kubo isn't trolling us with having the Bankais taken from the captains which havn't shown theirs yet.

Ukitake and Kyoraku:"Bankai" *flashes&smoke everywhere*
Quincys:*use weird bankai sucking device*
Kubo:"trollface.jpg"

I actually see it coming.

[astrallionheart]

Buckbeard: "We have stolen all the bankais! And now I will absorb them all!"

Kenpachi: "My reiatsu is still higher than yours."

[Solace]

Originally Posted by haegar

@ Solace, think there is some room to assume they need it summoned first so they can take it, if simply for the reason it was done like that about 5 times now with no deviation.

Right. I was musing if there was a window of opportunity (when the Bankai is first activated) or if it didn't matter when they could take a Bankai as long as it was out. Clearly if you can take it, you'd do it right away, to prevent any advantage. Although there is a deviation in that these characters did not use an incantation like the arrancar did versus Ichigo.

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Except we saw in the SS arc that thier are kido spells that allow for instant mass communication.

Right, but it wasn't used very often and it was coordinated by the higher ups. Aizen exploited this, and since these Quincy appear to have inner knowledge of SS it should be assumed such techniques could not be relied upon.

Assuming they can break the seal was in and of itself a high stakes gamble

Absolutely, but they didn't really know much about the technique in the first place. SS seems to always be caught with its pants down, and it's a poor plot device, but Kubo didn't give himself an out: like DBZ, the characters are all now at ridiculous levels of power. If the "heroes" aren't given some dramatic disadvantage it just becomes a slug fest right off the bat, instead of saving the "all bets are off" drama for the climax.

Stupid from a strategic standpoint, but if Bleach was trying to establish any sense of "realism" we'd be reading a much different (complainers would argue better) story.

Except for that part where byakuya acknowledged that their enemies were powerful enough that they could not be beaten by Bankai

Actually he said they couldn't be beaten without using Bankai. Then again what characters say in Bleach and what actually happens are often quite different.

In short, a far more intelligent plan would have been to have all the captains hold off the intruders while Renji sacrifices his own Bankai... Byakuya would then contact the other captains and tell them how it works so that they can figure out how to disable the ability before they use their bankai (namely in this case it would be disarming the enemy of the item they use)... This way only the bankai of a measly VC need be sacrificed, instead of FOUR CAPTAINS.


What would be even better would be for Byakuya and Renji to do this with Mayuri by their side so that he could observe the seal in action as he is the most likely person to be able to figure out how to counter it.

I'm not disagreeing with you here, I even said the plan wasn't the smartest. It isn't without logic though, and I felt the reasons worked given that Bleach's writing is full of contradictions and asspulls.

In the end I enjoy Bleach because it has fun moments of "rule of cool", action, and occasional humor. But I will never praise it for clever writing. Bleach peaked at the SS arc in my opinion, and outside of Turn Back the Pendulum and Kenpachi's backstory, the rest of the story just hasn't been as exciting since. But, I still find it enjoyable because I ditched any hope and expectations for improvement years ago. I'm just along for the ride now.

[Lendial]

What exactly is transcendental reiatsu and which chapter was this explained? i admit ive skipped large portion since the end of the winter war arc.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Casshern

Well, I thought it was pretty cool how the captains put their faith in their VCs.

That's was my favorite part of the chapter as well.

This was a decent chapter. Fun beginning (with a nameless mook effortlessly attacked), and the strategy of the Captains was interesting (even if needlessly flawed). It makes sense that a Quincy can remove a Bankai (since they can utilize a Bankai's spirit particles), but the ease was quite shocking. I wonder if the opponents strength is correlated into the removal (i.e. you must be as powerful or more powerful to remove your opponents Bankai)? Overall fun chapter.

[Frenchie]

I think everyone's being very sarcastic. (I've been too so I can't really blame you for it)

To be truly stupid to me, they would have all bankai'd. (Ukitake and Kyouraku's bankais could have easily been just absorbed before we saw them)
As it is however, 4 captain releases means they both hedged their bets and made sure the sample size was big enough to work a counter-strategy. (SS doesn't have to know there's only one way to seal a bankai. What if Renji's opponent used a different seal/method? ie do you survey one dude in Wisconsin to determine Obama vs Romney or do you take a bigger sample?)

The Captains are clearly testing the water and it only seems logical. They got a bit of the idiot ball by not connecting the dots between Quincies being able to use bankai and the sealing (aka stealing), but then again you're talking about people that have had hundreds of years of relationship with their zanpakuto as an extension of their body, so it may not seem so unlikely for them to have assumed the Quincies were just suppressing bankai, not taking it away entirely.

Also As Nodt's smile was funny in a trolololol kind of way.

[astrallionheart]

Originally Posted by Lendial

What exactly is transcendental reiatsu and which chapter was this explained? i admit ive skipped large portion since the end of the winter war arc.

It means your reiatsu is so high normal Shinigami can not feel it.

When Aizen started evolving in the Final battle, Isshin, Yourichi, and Urahara Kisuke couldn't feel Aizen's reiatsu anymore, only Ichigo could because he had twice the reiatsu of a captain.

At the end of Ichigo's battle versus Aizen, Ichigo's reiatsu was at a level even evolved Aizen couldn't sense.

In the new Bleach novel (apparently canon...) Zaraki Kenpachi at full power also has transcendental reiatsu, it was so high it could blow away the #1 and #2 Espadas powers with no effort.

That means Kenpachi > Yamamoto Genryuusai -___-

[ronin myael]

so the quincies can steal bankai, is that news? i thought that was quite obvious from the beginning.

well, they can always look to zaraki. he's the only one who doesn't stand to lose anything. while the others will be weakened without the use of their bankai, he would still have his monstrous powers.

so if the quincies were able to steal the bankai of powerful shinigami captains, how come they couldn't do squat against ichigo? i hope there's an explanation for that and not just some lame plot shield that kubo came up with to protect his hero.

[Marcus H.]

Fullbring abilities and his pure human bloodline can be a possible link to his immunity against Bankai thieves.

[sayde]

Here's an idea:

What if the Quincy's bankai stealing techniques can't work on another Quincy? And what if Masaki was revealed to be a Quincy all along? See where I'm going with this? Imagine Ichigo learning how to use a pseudo sage mode where he learns how to absorb reishi from the environment for an infinite power up. That combined with the mechanics of his bankai could give him mugetsu level strength without actually having to use mugetsu.

When you think about it, Ichigo's background thus far has just so conveniently made it possible for him to achieve shinigami, hollow, vizard, and fullbring abilities. So there's only one more thing left on the checklist that he's missing. And now that Quincy's are apparently the focal point of this arc, its time Ishida learns who is brother from another mother is.

[haegar]

Originally Posted by sayde

Here's an idea:

What if the Quincy's bankai stealing techniques can't work on another Quincy? And what if Masaki was revealed to be a Quincy all along? See where I'm going with this? Imagine Ichigo learning how to use a pseudo sage mode where he learns how to absorb reishi from the environment for an infinite power up. That combined with the mechanics of his bankai could give him mugetsu level strength without actually having to use mugetsu.

When you think about it, Ichigo's background thus far has just so conveniently made it possible for him to achieve shinigami, hollow, vizard, and fullbring abilities. So there's only one more thing left on the checklist that he's missing. And now that Quincy's are apparently the focal point of this arc, its time Ishida learns who is brother from another mother is.

QFT.