2011-08-02, 08:54 | Link #161 | ||
Shougi Génération
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Being able to manipulate Amaterasu as the 'requirement' for Susanoo? There's no reason to believe that.
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2011-08-02, 09:52 | Link #162 |
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Hey guys, Narutopedia states that Sasuke is in fact, capable of using Tsukuyomi.
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Tsukuyomi (at the list of users, Sasuke is listed.) |
2011-08-02, 10:12 | Link #163 | |
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2011-08-02, 10:25 | Link #164 | |
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While I was at it I decided to post some pics to correct a few more statements and establish a timeline about a few things ending with the fact that Sasuke didn't say anything specific about needing Tsukuyomi. As I said numerous times now, I'm not fundamentally against your notion. The main power in Sasuke's right eye could be a watered down Tsukuyomi, or Genjutsu in general or even something about Yin/Yang chakra with the creation of the black flames in the physical world with left MS and control of the mind over matter with spiritual power for Genjutsu and Enton with the right. |
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2011-08-02, 10:40 | Link #165 | ||
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anyway, you clarified your point, so it's okay P.S. some people do take this personally Quote:
edit : yep, checked it - Sasuke got hit in his cursed seal form wing with Amaterasu, Itachi extinguished it, just left a burnt (not burning) wing (ch. 390) .. so that's not part of Shape Manipulation, which makes sense (turning off is not manipulating) + Kagutsuchi was first named only during the Raikage fight soon after Susanoo ribs sprouted
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Last edited by Kallen4life; 2011-08-02 at 10:54. |
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2011-08-02, 14:08 | Link #166 | |
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There were levels of susano, first of all after Sasuke used the Enton on karin and the fake-Bee he was able to used only the lowest level of susano, then he proceeded to use shape manipulation on higher levels against the raikage, as his shape maniplulation evolved so did his susano, at the end of the fight he had a susano upper body with some flesh. He was mastering Enton but never mastered Tsukiyomi, but as we know for Susano he needs to master the jutsu in both eyes, this is stated by Sasuke himself at the end of his fight against the raikage. We know he didn't master Tsukiyomi, but he became rather good with Enton, which is made with the other eye, which means Tsukiyomi was never a requirement for Sasuke's Susano, there is no connection between the two in case of Sasuke. |
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2011-08-02, 15:10 | Link #167 |
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C commented on the level of the chakra that Sasuke has active when he used Susano'o, stating that it was the same as when Sasuke hit him with the Genjitsu in question. Now this begs the question, does Sasuke really have to pump all that advance blood-line chakra into a generic genjitsu or was that chakra needed for the Mangekyo Sharingan's Tsukiyomi?
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2011-08-02, 15:21 | Link #168 |
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nope, Zetsu specifically commented that Itachi stopped Amaterasu on Sasuke (it continued raging outisde), before it could burn him completely to ashes (that's what it does), it only managed to burn his wing somewhat before it was stopped by Itachi
pretty clear picture there
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2011-08-02, 15:51 | Link #169 |
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Not really... He didn't put out the flames at all, he just consciously didn't have them burn Sasuke completely, which was probably done simply by not focusing Amaterasu on burning him completely (I could be wrong, but I don't think Amaterasu naturally spreads beyond what the user wanted to burn). That's not really the same as consciously dousing the flames.
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2011-08-02, 16:56 | Link #170 | |
Shougi Génération
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Sasuke's fight with Bee was just meant to showcase both his Tsukuyomi and his Amaterasu capabilities/mastery, before the big reveal at the summit: Susanoo
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2011-08-02, 17:07 | Link #171 | |
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2011-08-02, 17:07 | Link #172 |
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The point isn't whether Itachi stopped the flame -he did- it's what does it got to do with anything? How does this fact change that Sasuke discovered he could manipulate the flames with his right eye which happened on panel and was then plainly explained in the manga?
Itachi was better at Genjutsu and that reflected in his use of the MS is all. This "argument" is as absurd as claiming that since Sasuke can also use Genjutsu with his MS then Itachi cannot do better by manipulating time with Tsukuyomi. When Sasuke, who's better at Ninjutsu, discovered than he could manipulate the flame with his right eye he went further and developped his skill toward Kagutsuchi. He can also use Genjutsu but not to such a degree. Similarly Itachi is considerably more skilled at Genjutsu, hence Tsukuyomi, but can also use Amaterasu and put it out even if he couldn't drastically change its shape like Sasuke. |
2011-08-03, 00:59 | Link #173 | |
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P.S. sigh, this is getting so tiresome =/ .. I'd rather stop
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2011-08-03, 01:24 | Link #174 |
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It’s that times of week again; the new chapter thread has been opened. Please move all relevant discussions to the new thread.
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2011-08-03, 02:25 | Link #175 | |
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So this is a minor plot hole, just like when Gaara is able to defend against Sasuke looking at him, i mean amaterasu-looking. You can't move sand faster than Sasuke's eyes can move So better to stick with what the author wanted to say, and it's quite clear that the author wanted to show what Hunter has explained in his last post about what is the exact difference between Sasuke's and Itachi's powers. You are directly contradicted by the manga itself, C (if i remember correctly) commented on this in the manga when Sasuke used Enton against A. |
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2011-08-03, 02:40 | Link #176 |
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whatever, really going in circles here and new chapter is out
my point was that : 1) Itachi extinguished the flames on Sasuke just as Sasuke later did on Karin .. nothing was burned to ashes, Sasuke's wing caught black fire, Itachi stopped it from burning him down completely (you can see fire raging on it in one panel, in the next it's just a somewhat burnt wing (it's still intact more or less, as is the body), no flames on it) .. Zetsu commented that he did it to protect the eyes .. also, Amaterasu doesn't actually burn things down that quick, in the Raikage fight, when A dodged it, some Iron Samurai in armor got blasted with it and it didn't manage to burn through the armor completely before it was yanked off by Kankuro 2) extinguishing the flames is part of the Amaterasu skill itself, not Shape Manipulation, hence Itachi could do it too 3) Shape Manipulation was first used by Sasuke in the Raikage fight - he put on the newly formed incomplete Susanoo moving on to 550 now
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