2013-05-25, 06:31 | Link #601 |
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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Not if rejected one is popular in that case rejecting one is bad. If you remember main reason why she were bullied were cause she were popular with guys and girls were jelous on that. There is no foreshadowing of being rejected (that would be same as Hikki instead of opposite), but plenty of her rejecting them.
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2013-05-25, 16:49 | Link #603 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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Second your idea has two big shortcoming. 1)It asume that Yukino has/had romantic feelings for Hayama 2)It asume existence of unspecified character/group of characters you call third party. Neither of it is supported by canon so far so build whole theory on it makes it very shaky and ANY other conclussion that make sense and is bassed on "real" events and dialogs of LN has better standing than that. PS: I know I am answering for second time to your post, but from first one I spend 8 hours formulate this in my job, so Yorishiku. |
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2013-05-25, 18:37 | Link #604 |
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Earth
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Thanks and You're welcome...
But Yukinon's resentment towards him is so great so whatever the problem they had, it must be on a personal level... our assessment may have been wrong... Seems like we need to read the summaries once more... |
2013-05-26, 01:14 | Link #608 |
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Join Date: Feb 2012
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Maybe from being rejected by Yukino many sympathize with Hayama and because of that they ganged up on Yukino and became isolated. Espicially from the girls because they must have already thought YUkino as someone who is conceited and even more so.
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2013-05-26, 01:23 | Link #609 | ||
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We also know that Yukinon was teased mercilessly as a kid and went to the same school as Hayato, my own guess is that Yukinon and Hayato were childhood friends but once school started Yukinon became the target of a lot of bullying and Hayato stood around doing nothing or, worse, he participated. Hayato probably envies Hachiman's ability to put himself in the line of fire for the sake of others because of this, and Hachiman's ability to empathize with Yukinon that Hayato will never possess. I imagine Hayato does have feelings for Yukinon, but Yukinon despises him for essentially being a childhood friend who turned his back on her when she needed him most. If I recall correctly, after her primary school she left to study internationally, and only came back for highschool. That being said, he might just be feeling guilty over what he had done, and is trying to do the same thing Yui originally set out to do for Hachiman. Honestly speaking, I'm kind of thinking there will come a point in time that Yui starts collaborating with Hayato for some reason and eventually they build their own romantic relationship from there. They have bubbly personalities well suited for each other, and Yui could never survive the ostracization that would come with dating Hachiman. It would crush her, she survives by dancing the perimeter of social circles. |
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2013-05-26, 02:34 | Link #610 | ||
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I don't think Yui had ever consciously thought of being kind out of guilt. |
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2013-05-26, 03:30 | Link #611 | |||
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At least, that's been my impression from what little I've read about Haruno, I take it Hayato being the naive character he is can't see through Haruno to the reality underneath? Whereas Haruno compliments Hachiman for having 'rotten eyes' essentially, and can see the lie for what it is. Quote:
Maybe it was just the anime rubbing off on me though, but it seemed like in the scene he was admitting a painful truth about himself. Namely that he wouldn't be strong enough to be friends with someone like Hachiman (and by extension, he wasn't strong enough to be friends with Yukinon) given the public ridicule/hate he would have to endure to do so. He left Yukinon out to dry and would have done the same to Hachiman. Quote:
I think from what we've seen of Hayato though it seems like he has a much more profound sense of guilt over Yukinon, which would make sense given that all Yui did was be in the wrong place at the wrong time and Hachiman threw himself into the road of his own violation. |
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2013-05-26, 03:49 | Link #612 | |
どうだろうね。ふふ
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Chile
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Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Hayato's kira personality was build from the group up for the sake of helping Yukinon with whatever has always happened to her, I can see her hating that (as in, not being yourself for the sake of something else can be an hypocrite act in her dictionary). About the Yukinon vs Harunon personality argument, we can phrase it as them being "opposites", Yukinon will always 100% of the time (in theory) go with the truth, and if that damages someone then tough deal; her concept of society works like that and he actually does expect a similar treatment from the people that deal with her. Harunon, by her part seems to be the type that puts an act or a part for those around her, and can only allow herself to be "herself" as long as she doesn't trouble anyone, for that reason we can see the most of her when she goes all out to tease someone , that mask fits to a T someone who had to learn how to act perfectly in social situations, but has her basic personality not being 100% compatible with those events.
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2013-05-26, 04:13 | Link #613 | ||
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I also wouldn't say Yukinon and Harunon are opposites, rather Harunon seems to share almost the exact same philosophy about the world but puts that knowledge into practice differently than Yukinon. Where Yukinon (aware of the darker side of human nature and lays it bare for others) is brutally honest, Harunon instead uses that nature to manipulate others. She's like a Yukinon pretending to be Hayato if that makes sense. |
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2013-05-26, 06:44 | Link #614 |
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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Main point is, that Haruno is able live in society, while Yukino isn't. I think Hayato wish she were able do that cause she would be happier that way than be ethernaly in opposition and alone. To put it simply she should be able make compromises
And about their past I were wondering how whole that confessing stuff fit. Most obvious would be that she were bullied cause it, but Hayama guilt seems to be that of unable help and not one that feel responsible. In the end I think he weren't able help her due great gap that confession caused and which grew even more after that. |
2013-05-26, 06:53 | Link #615 |
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: UK; Manchester
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While I was researching to answer my own questions, I saw the recent comments. I found that much of the debate was covered by the evidence I was collecting. I decided to post it here. It's pretty much a bunch a copy and pastes from the summary of volume 4. Note, that the evidence is concerning two questions. What is the relationship between Yukino and Hayama in the past? What is/was Yukino's family situation? With regards to these two questions, it's pretty comprehensive; the only excluded things was when I was grasping at straws. Assuming we all agree with the summaries of volume 4 by LN spoiler. We now have some assumed reference to base all the interpretations on. It makes arguments much easier to comprehend, analyse and what have you for me at least. Also if you trust my work, you won't have to worry about forgetting any important details from volume 4.
The final two points that I need to say. I think context is important when extracting text. Accordingly, the evidence in a nut shell is usually only a few lines. It's the context which is majority of the text. Secondly, I tried to refrain paraphrasing the summaries at all. An interpretation of an interpretation is bound to be inaccurate. Spoiler for Evidence from Volume 4:
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2013-05-26, 07:07 | Link #616 |
I'm just a support char..
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Hmmm. . . it seems like Hayato behaves the same like a politician. He will do anything that can make himself look good and never will he risks his social status for the sake of others as he don't want to be hated for standing up against the norms.
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2013-05-26, 07:28 | Link #617 | ||
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Yukinon hates Hayama because Hayama was her childhood friend, and instead of risking himself when she was in trouble he left her to the mercy of those around her. Terribad actually put together a great compilation of qoutes from the summary that cover this, quoted below. Quote:
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2013-05-26, 08:02 | Link #618 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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Tags |
club, comedy, delayed release date, dramedy, fake harem, gagaga bunko, harem, hinedere, kuuderes, philosophy, romance, school life, slice of life, social psychology, train wreck |
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