(L+CR) Subete ga F ni Naru (Everything Becomes F)

[Cloudedmind]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

... I've been disturbed since the car scene...

I kept wondering when did I start watching Lolita.

[Gan_HOPE326]

It's also a pretty ambiguous situation from an ethical point of view because on one hand, Magata was clearly too young to be considered able to consent; on the other, though, she also was ostensibly WAY more mature and smart than you'd expect from a girl of that age (or from most people even in their adulthood, really).
But then again, she also has multiple personality disorder, so yeah, that might also affect her decisional ability.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326

It's also a pretty ambiguous situation from an ethical point of view because on one hand, Magata was clearly too young to be considered able to consent; on the other, though, she also was ostensibly WAY more mature and smart than you'd expect from a girl of that age (or from most people even in their adulthood, really).
But then again, she also has multiple personality disorder, so yeah, that might also affect her decisional ability.

"She's mature for her age" isn't an argument that gets much sympathy from me. Even if it's true.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

"She's mature for her age" isn't an argument that gets much sympathy from me. Even if it's true.

Nor me. It takes 2 to tango. The Director should have known better than to do that.

[Kenju of the Right]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

... I've been disturbed since the car scene...

Yeeaaaah i kept deluding myself by thinking

*Car scene*
"why would his wife care? She seems like a real tease"

*Ferris-wheel scene*
"um, he had to have just kissed her head like a father would kiss his daughter on the head"

[SuitUp]

It's also a pretty ambiguous situation from an ethical point of view because on one hand, Magata was clearly too young to be considered able to consent; on the other, though, she also was ostensibly WAY more mature and smart than you'd expect from a girl of that age (or from most people even in their adulthood, really).
But then again, she also has multiple personality disorder, so yeah, that might also affect her decisional ability.

This is as far from ambigous as you could get, no only was she a minor, and as such, wasn't legally able to consent, but to top it all of, she was mentally ill... And the mentally ill, by definition cannot give consent.

[Stark700]

Episode 5:
Well now that was quite something...

It's interesting that Magata's character especially about her personalities. As talky as this show is, I really find it insightful at how much they focus on the main characters.

Moe's conversation about killing, freedom, and their connection also is something that's noticeable. Uh, the part about parent killing was a bit disturbing, at least in terms of topic. The expression that Moe showed during that conversation seemed obvious. The ending of "a tool to free oneself" seemed to tie with the theme of this week's episode.

[Dop]

The flashbacks (which I still find somewhat Murakami-esque) are meant to be disturbing, I feel. Flashback-Magata is very much the antithesis to the 'anime loli' character type.

There's nothing even vaguely attempting to be titillating here. As it should be.

The scene with the knife sent a shiver down my spine.

[j4c06]

What happened to Moe's parents again? I even rewatched the first episode, but only got reminded how awkward the whole thing has become compared to it. The scene with director's wife was especially jarring.

[AC-Phoenix]

The way those flashbacks at the start were presented mad eit kinda hard to distinguish whether it was a simple flashback or part of moe's dream/memories. - For some reason I got the feeling that this is intended though. - Maybe Moe forming a Dr Magata personality ?

We also got a better understanding as to why Moe said 'Purple' last episode now.

Not much change on the mystery front though - we just get to see the past to understand the present better. It doesn't seem to be too related to the mystery at this point though.

[BBOvenGuy]

Originally Posted by j4c06

What happened to Moe's parents again?

I don't think they've said in the anime so far. For what it's worth, though...

Spoiler for J-Drama version spoiler:

In the drama version, they're killed in a plane crash. With Moe and Sensei watching.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by BBOvenGuy

I don't think they've said in the anime so far. For what it's worth, though...

Spoiler for J-Drama version spoiler:

In the drama version, they're killed in a plane crash. With Moe and Sensei watching.

that much was certainly implied, since Moe was at an airport lobby when she was recalling her parents' deaths.

[itisjustme]

The directing and atmosphere is really amazing compared to the Jdrama. Although the Sensei's pseudophilosophical musings are kinda annoying.

[Kanon]

The ending was unintentionally hilarious to me. Shiki has been taking advice from Grail-kun

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

I first watched this late Thursday night and found I couldn't concentrate on the dialogue sufficiently and nodded off. I just watched it again now and found it more interesting this time around.

Heh, it has been exactly the same for me. I, too, found the dialogue, especially Saikawa's, extremely boring, if not infuriatingly pretentious.

Still, on the second viewing, the series became marginally more engaging. But I fully agree that the characters are not acting plausibly — they're "locked" in an isolated lab with a brutal murderer on loose. How could they still remain so calm and detached under such circumstances?



Like almost everyone else in this thread, I'm betting that the "younger sister" Miki is the doctor herself.

I further suspect that the "locked" room has never been occupied in the past 15 years, and was possibly maintained by a remote-controlled AI. Yes, I know the lab's network is supposedly a standalone LAN, but I won't be surprised if there's a hidden backdoor in the OS, especially given how it was apparently engineered to "fail" at a pivotal moment.

I wonder if the corpse of Dr Shiki is actually real? I don't recall seeing anyone actually touching it nor examining it closely. What else is in the P1, under the dress? Rotting meat from untouched food, to make a limbless mannequin seem like a days-old body?

Beyond these observations, though, I'm no closer to figuring out how the murder took place, so the suspense would hopefully carry me to the end of the series.

Oh, one last observation: the video-conversation between Dr Shiki and Nishinosono reminds me vividly of a Turing test, especially when "Dr Shiki" got excited when Nishnosono challenged her with the question: "Who are you?"

It was that observation which made me wonder whether the "corpse" is real. It may well be a doll after all...

[janipani]

This episode lacked tension. Story is building up too slowly.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Kanon

The ending was unintentionally hilarious to me. Shiki has been taking advice from Grail-kun

Oh snap.

[Hiroi Sekai]

Originally Posted by janipani

This episode lacked tension. Story is building up too slowly.

Really? I find it to be frighteningly engaging. The conflict in Moe and Saikawa was especially good- the emotion Moe gives when she realizes what her idol is saying hit me pretty hard.

Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326

A theory I read was that it referred to the F in the hexadecimal numbering system. In which F = 15, and is the highest digit, so if everything becomes F you get the highest possible number in a given number of digits. Or all bits set to 1.

That's a fascinating theory. I just finished replaying 9 Hours, 9 Persons, 9 Doors again, so I'm 1000% still thinking in hexadecimals.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Heh, it has been exactly the same for me. I, too, found the dialogue, especially Saikawa's, extremely boring, if not infuriatingly pretentious.

Still, on the second viewing, the series became marginally more engaging. But I fully agree that the characters are not acting plausibly — they're "locked" in an isolated lab with a brutal murderer on loose. How could they still remain so calm and detached under such circumstances?

Just wondering if you could elaborate on what you found pretentious about what Saikawa said? Personally, it gave me something to think about, something that's connected to what I've started noticing about fans, fandoms and the media I've consumed in recent years (though I shouldn't and won't elaborate on that here).

Though perhaps it was a time-of-day thing for me too. In the evening, my hands and mind start reaching for other things to do as the episode progresses. But when I saw this episode first thing in the morning instead, Saikawa's words actually made me think about the ideas behind them, even if I don't agree with everything he said.

And as you keep pointing out, they're are unbelievably calm, given the circumstances...

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by karice67

Just wondering if you could elaborate on what you found pretentious about what Saikawa said? Personally, it gave me something to think about, something that's connected to what I've started noticing about fans, fandoms and the media I've consumed in recent years (though I shouldn't and won't elaborate on that here).

I think what especially annoyed me about Saikawa's self-indulgent faux philosophical rambling was the fact it was preceded by the use of Bach's Cello Suite No. 1 in the soundtrack. The viewer is expected to take it as an "oh-so-cool" spiel by a highly intellectual professor who is supposedly a genius in his field (which is what, incidentally? The anime never makes clear), but what I get instead is a rehash of the all-too-familiar nihilistic themes found in many other Japanese stories.

As Shadow5YA pointed out:

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

It's all basic philosophy bordering on teenage angst and nihilism, so that's more shame on Saikawa and the writers. Nothing he said sounded like something a person with a PhD with several awards could have said.

I wholeheartedly agree with that assessment. It's an aspect of Japanese literary culture that I find very hard to understand, the obsession with nihilism and death. It becomes even more repugnant when Saikawa goes to the extent of describing Shiki — who was certifiably insane — as the "purest" human he knows.

The same theme is also present in the other mystery anime of the season, Sakurako's Investigation, but at least in that anime, it's not as overbearing as it is in Subete ga F ni Naru.

Granted, Saikawa — like any other individual — is entitled to his relativistic worldview. But any worthwhile Western philosophy I've read would argue vehemently against such fatalism. It's an outlook to life that I would categorically oppose, because I fail to see how such views could lead to constructive action. Indeed, it's this morbid fascination with "freedom" that led Shiki to murder her parents, while remaining completely detached from her actions. Like Nishinosono, I completely fail to see how that could be considered admirable.

It's such reasoning that allows the Japanese, I feel, to cop out of taking responsibility for atrocities, such as the war crimes committed by their predecessors in World War II. By Saikawa's logic, their actions are excusable, because they operated under a different "morality". That's total bullshit, in my view.

And don't even get me started on Saikawa's musing about how socialisation has gradually stripped him of his individual freedom over the years. That's classic Nietzsche, the idea that morality is for the weak, and that talented individuals should cast aside all attempts by society to tie them down, so that they can achieve their full potential. It's the same philosophy that led eventually to facism, and the dangerous belief that a master race is entitled to rule over "lesser races".