(L) Tiger & Bunny (Sunrise)

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

3. We will get Tiger vs. Bunny. It's just too fun a fight to pass up when you've created the perfect pretext for it.

Probably, but I wonder how it could go down? They're so... ill-matched, right now. Tiger can't defeat Bunny without his power, but if he uses it in earnest (rather than trying to survive without hurting Bunny), then Bunny doesn't stand a chance.

[Haak]

I think at some point Kotetsu will go back to his old suit and then reveal his identity to everyone. Maybe we'll have a fight between the real Wild Tiger in the old suit and a robot in the new suit. That would be sweet.

There's seriously so many awesome ways this can go. Sunrise can't possible screw this up..

[ShiroiRyu]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

A few speculations:


2. I expect the towel that Kotetsu gave to Blue Rose to be what triggers memories for her. She'll snap out of it, as such, and will play a key role later on.

If i remember, i don't know where i saw that, but for preview for futures episodes, they said Blue Rose will have a good role on next episode.
So i think that will be the second point.

[kk2extreme]

Its seems like Lunatic would be a unlikely ally for Kotetsu

[~BC~]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Probably, but I wonder how it could go down? They're so... ill-matched, right now. Tiger can't defeat Bunny without his power, but if he uses it in earnest (rather than trying to survive without hurting Bunny), then Bunny doesn't stand a chance.

Don't you mean ill-matched in Barnaby's favor; considering Kotetsu's time-limit is decreased. Kotetsu's reaction to Bunny activating his power last episode seems to hint that he doesn't think he'd win. He'd probably have to run around dodging Barnaby until his powers ran out (assuming he'd fall for that). It'd be interesting to see them fighting each other on equal terms though.

[TnAdct1]

Originally Posted by Kusa-San

And damnit, I can't stand seing all the other heroes beliving that Kotetsu is a bad guy. Even Kaede now will believe that

That's one piece of writing that I absolutely despise: doing something where the only "good guy" in the situation is the central character (Shinjuku Arc of G Gundam, anyone?) .

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by ~BC~

Don't you mean ill-matched in Barnaby's favor; considering Kotetsu's time-limit is decreased.

Kotetsu's also supercharged, and unlike Bunny, knows about the shortened time limit. So if he really wants to win, all he has to do is activate his power and slap Barnaby around for a bit to finish him fast. (Though I don't think he'd be willing to do that.)

Kotetsu's reaction to Bunny activating his power last episode seems to hint that he doesn't think he'd win.

He just wasn't willing to turn their argument into a super-powered brawl. He already regretted getting physical at all.

[~BC~]

You know I'd forgotten about that super-powered thing from ep. 14. Hmm...

[Kusa-San]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Kotetsu's also supercharged, and unlike Bunny,

You forget he doesn't know how to use that. In the end, Tiger will most likely lose if he fights against Barnaby.

Right know, all he can do is running away from them and hide somewhere.

Most likely in the next ep, we will have Tiger/Blue Rose confrontation. Lunatic will also probably make his move.

[~BC~]

Yeah, he was sort of just zipping around randomly. So I'm not sure if it'll count that much if he doesn't have a handle on it. With him thinking it's a sign that his powers are about to go kaput, I can see him not wanting to test his luck. Still, I'd be surprised if it doesn't come into play at some point.

[Anh_Minh]

This ep showed he has it more or less under control now. The biggest problem will be his reluctance to fight at all.

[Myssa Rei]

... Well at least they have an excuse now to have a hero vs. hero smackdown.

I have to wonder who Kaede was meeting in the preview. If it's Maverick, that's yet even MORE bad news for Koutetsu.

[saravis]

It seems Agnes isn't in on the Hero TV scheme as Maverick wouldn't have had to use his power on her and everyone else if she was. I was starting to wonder if Lloyds was in on it, as he was getting a little too persuasive with Kotetsu, but seems not.

Well shit has certainly hit the fan. Maverick has become absolutely detestable. I want to rope him up, upside down, and make him a punching bag for all the heroes.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by saravis

Well shit has certainly hit the fan. Maverick has become absolutely detestable. I want to rope him up, upside down, and make him a punching bag for all the heroes.

Or Lunatic kills him if it turns out the reason his father ended the way he did was because of Maverick.

[Jeffry2009]

So what's gonna happen next? Is Maverick gonna kidnap Kaede & kill kotetsu's family (his mother & older brother, Muramasa) as well?

My head really bothers me about what happened & couldn't get over it by now.

[Sackett]

Hmmm. At first I thought Maverick's plan to be far too audacious and full of holes to be plausible.

But then I thought of a way he could make it work:

1: "Kill" Wild Tiger off-camera- with Kotestu as the murderer of course.

This eliminates the biggest hole in his plan, which is who is going to be Wild Tiger if Kotestu isn't. It will also make the Heroes less likely to listen to Kotestu, and more likely to use lethal force against him.

2: Leak to the conspiracy minded populace of the city that Kotestu is Wild Tiger, but claim that Wild Tiger went bad and that this is an attempt to cover that fact up.

This neutralizes the remaining people that Maverick ''knows'' know the truth. Ben, Kotestu's family, and most any other people that might have figured out his identity. Sure they'll claim Kotestu would never do such a thing, but of course they'd claim that. The majority of the public will believe the official story, since they'll believe all the Heroes that sincerely claim it to be true. Those who are willing to look and see the holes in the official story (mainly those who already whisper about the faults of Mr. Legend etc) will find the "Wild Tiger went bad" story more believable then... well how else will Ben and Kotestu's family explain it? Nobody knows about the memory rewriting ability. Without that knowledge, even if you realize that something fishy is going on, how will you explain it? "Wild Tiger went bad" explains the holes in the official story sufficiently for those who see them.

This depends on two more things though:

3: Maverick needs to make sure Kotestu dies quickly. The longer he lives, the greater the chance the lies will unravel.

4: The memories of the Heroes need to keep from coming unraveled.

This is not as difficult as some people as saying. Barnaby did not swiftly abandon his memory at the first sign of confusion. First he denied Kriem, and insisted that his memory was accurate. Then when proven that his memory did not match the truth, Barnaby's memory became fragmented and conflicted. It was only after additional evidence that demonstrated another related memory that gave Maverick his alias was false that it finally came out. People try to justify their false memories however they can, that gives Maverick an edge.

Additionally the fact that all the Heroes and friends will remember the same thing about Kotestu not being Wild Tiger will generate a strong case of mutual support in the face of conflicting evidence. If Maverick is really clever, he'll leave everyone with the memory that Wild Tiger never shared with anyone his actual identity. Allowing for the lie "Wild Tiger went bad" to be a fall back position.

There are still some major problems for Maverick's plan:

A: Antonio. Antonio has known Kotestu since highschool. Antonio knew Kotestu's wife. There has to have been some major rewriting of Antonio's memory- that or it has to be very conflicting and light. Maybe Maverick just went and replaced Kotestu's face with whoever the fake Wild Tiger is going to be?

B: Blue Rose. Blue Rose has a crush on Kotestu- that means she has "gifts" from him, and probably a few photos. While Maverick may or may not have been aware of Antonio's connection to Kotestu, he is almost certainly not aware of Blue Rose's crush, which means he's unlikely to have take any precautions against it.

There are also probably others that Kotestu has befriended who know the truth of his identity. Maverick is probably a loner himself, I could see him not understanding the extensive connections Kotestu has made over the years, and thus not understanding how hard it would be to completely erase his presence in people's memories.

Maverick should have been aware of the two problems above, but I could see how he might overlook it. Especially since I think he sensed that Kotestu was a real threat, and that normal reasonable actions to wipe his memory where not going well. A genre savvy villain in that situation would sense that he needs to break out and do something bold to shake things up. Thus Maverick is rescued from the "you idiot" camp and put in the camp of intelligent villains who screwed up.

Of course, this doesn't get into some things that Maverick does not know, and could not know that will also mess up his plans:

Y: Yuri is Lunatic. If Yuri was not Lunatic this small loose thread probably would not be dangerous to Maverick, but the greater interaction between Lunatic and Wild Tiger means that he'll be less likely to believe the lie. (Unless he finds out that Kotestu was losing his powers- that might prejudice him a bit).

K: Kaede has power stealing NEXT abilities. Not sure how that will ruin his plans, but it's too big of a Chekov's Gun to be ignored.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. I can't wait to see if Maverick is as clever as my guesses have made him out to be.

[Jeffry2009]

[kk2extreme]

Originally Posted by Jeffry2009

lol, that's one way to save the day

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Sackett

This is not as difficult as some people as saying.

I disagree.

I think that Maverick would have been much better off simply altering Kotetsu and Samantha's memories to fit with the "Jake killed my parents" memories given to Bunny. This route would greatly minimize potential risky variables, and likely keep Maverick safe.

The route Maverick is now taking has loads of totally unpredictable and risky variables (some of which you yourself noted), and Maverick really should be smart enough to know that.

This is anything but "genre savvy" on Maverick's part, imo.

Quite the contrary, Maverick is falling into the trap of audacious hubris.

He's going "high risk, high reward" because if his huge gamble happens to work, it'll work forever. With Kotetsu and Samantha both out of the way (both either dead or locked away for good), it means that Maverick will always be able to keep Bunny's memories corrupted (as Jake and Kriem are now both dead, so they can't defend Jake any more).

I also think that Maverick wants a "new NEXT supervillian" to get Hero TV viewer interest going again. That's a nice side-benefit of his master plan here, as it gets Kotetsu to temporarily fill that role.

But Maverick's plan is by no means the one most likely to succeed of the options he had available to him. It's actually the riskiest approach he could have taken, in my view.

It would be much, much less risky to simply change Kotetsu and Samantha's memories about the killer of Bunny's parents, and the day that they were killed.

But that's less satisfying to Maverick, for the reasons I've given above, which is why he's going with this more audacious plan.


Hey, I'm perfectly fine with it. Nothing wrong with an otherwise smart villain being brought down by his own hubris. And this route is likely to be an entertaining one to be sure.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by TnAdct1

Damn it, Sunrise. Can't you make a good, original "lighthearted" anime without ruining it with a dark second half?

Not quite sure how they're ruining it......

Also I wouldn't really call this dark so much as tumltuous.