The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - Episode 15 Discussion / Poll [2009 added ep. 5]

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Slick_rick

Empathy and the fact you're in a similar situation.

Errr....okay, but how exactly does anyone know for a fact that that is how she feels, IF she feels anything. It's all still just assumed.

We see from Kyon perspective that he believes she isn't having any fun. While Yuki never says anything other than she's fine you get the distinct impression that she's not.

When has Yuki ever once concerned herself with having fun? The only thing she's concerned with right now is observing and reporting to the data entity. Also doing these things with Haruhi has never really been about having fun, but about keeping her satisfied. It's not about what any of the characters wants, it what she wants.

Yes, and that's the same position we are in.

It's not critical to the story at all but it certainly gives you a feeling more true to what would happen in that situation. Most people would claim they got the message in the second episode but then were always expecting it to end on the next loop. Each loop that goes by without it ending builds up more frustration. We only do this loop 3 times and you can see people reactions.

My point was that Yuki is not a very major character in this arc other than as an information provider. Thus I find it strange that people think they would need to focus on getting the viewer to "feel how she feels". It doesn't seem that critical. Also again consider that the character who does emote and through whose eyes we see the events primary emotion since last episode upon realizing the truth yet again seems primarily to be despair and apathy, not frustration and outrage and outrage as many viewers seem to be feeling. If it was somehow their goal then I can't imagine how it's worked on an empathy level.

Yuki doesn't expression emotions but certainly most viewers understand underneath she has them. She does some reiterations because she considers her just an observer but her discontent is fairly obvious to Kyon and thereby to the viewers as well.

She might have some desire to help deep down, but again I have to ask, why is this absolutely critical for the viewer to be made aware of and to sympathize with that the arc needs to be repeated and stray from the novel in this manner.

If you ask me it seems more like people are just making excuses for Kyoani without the proper insight into their actual motives, whatever they may be. There's just this assumption that anything Kyoani does must have some brilliant and grand vision/idea behind it and that there's no possible way they could have conceivably miscalculated the reaction to these arcs or have made anything but the best and most perfect possible choices and considerations in producing it, but how can anyone really know that. At the end of the day all we can do is guess or wait for it to end.

[Tyabann]

The reason WHY it's important to empathize with Yuki here is a spoiler for a later novel, which SHOULD be aired this season.

If they don't spend 8 episodes on Endless Eight that is.

[Ithekro]

Spoiler content from later in the series that is suggested by the viral marketing as being part of this season is the main reason why people think that Yuki is the focus of this arc in terms of emotions. From that point of view, Yuki's depression is a logical building point for a later story.

In terms of in arc, it sets the tone for the story as well as giving Kyon the first real hint that something is wrong. He's started to be able to read Yuki's moods. By the time of the Computer Game 5 vs. 5 with the Computer Club, he can read that she's having fun and wants to win, if that means anything.

[OkamiNoKaze]

If we're not suppose to empathize with her, or maybe even for her, there would be no reason to show that with each episode she seems be shown as being more miserable. I think she is conflicted with what her duty is and what she wants to do.

[Slick_rick]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Errr....okay, but how exactly does anyone know for a fact that that is how she feels, IF she feels anything. It's all still just assumed.

You don't have to feel exactly as she does but you certainly should understand what she "might" be feeling in that situation. Even if she's as emotionless as you try to claim she is it has more to do with placing the viewer in the position of a person trapped in an endless loop.

When has Yuki ever once concerned herself with having fun? The only thing she's concerned with right now is observing and reporting to the data entity. Also doing these things with Haruhi has never really been about having fun, but about keeping her satisfied. It's not about what any of the characters wants, it what she wants.

When has Yuki ever outright stated anything? I think most people assume she's is/will being growing emotions as the story progresses. If you want to believe she just an emotionless doll with no feelings that's your right. I doubt though in the end you'll be correct though. It might be ultimately about what Haruhi wants but certainly the other members are not as unhappy about the situation as it might seem.

My point was that Yuki is not a very major character in this arc other than as an information provider. Thus I find it strange that people think they would need to focus on getting the viewer to "feel how she feels". It doesn't seem that critical. Also again consider that the character who does emote and through whose eyes we see the events primary emotion since last episode upon realizing the truth yet again seems primarily to be despair and apathy, not frustration and outrage and outrage as many viewers seem to be feeling. If it was somehow their goal then I can't imagine how it's worked on an empathy level.

Well I assume that despair is certainly on people minds and I doubt Yuki is apathetic to the situation. The viewers can't change the situation just like Yuki and they are more able to voice they're frustration and outrage but I don't think we can say that those emotions aren't running through her. You don't have to react the same way she does because no two people react the same but now your placed in a similar situation and have to experience something akin to it.

She might have some desire to help deep down, but again I have to ask, why is this absolutely critical for the viewer to be made aware of and to sympathize with that the arc needs to be repeated and stray from the novel in this manner. If you ask me it seems more like people are just making excuses for Kyoani without the proper insight into their actual motives. At the end of the day all we can do is guess.

I don't believe it's absolutely critical but it certainly adds a different perspective to the viewers. I don't believe Moeblobs like Mikuru or fanservice in general is critical to a story but we certainly have enough of that now don't we? It actually a decent lead into disappearance but I don't know if they are planning to animate that. We have to theorize about motives as they aren't forthcoming. Some would be just as easily jump on the "stretching the episodes to make more money" bandwagon while I tend to consider it a bit more than that.

[Kaioshin Sama]

In any case, even if I take what's been said in all of the above posts for granted and as the definitive goal (which would of course be reaching but eh...) I still don't see how exactly the way this has been handled is the best conceivably possible way to showcase Yuki's somehow "critically important" emotions (and by the way I have read the story people assume is coming next). In fact I don't even see how this has been well handled. There are tons of other ways to get across this "critically important" emotion that don't warrant repeating an entire arc that was never meant to go on this long for the maybe 5-10 seconds tops of it that actually focus on Yuki's face and Kyon's apparent reaction to it. That's not to say their couldn't be worse ideas of course, though I'm hard pressed to think of any at the moment for a number of reasons.

Also this whole theory came up last week too and people were assuming it was a given goal of the producers, so if people are supposed to already know how Yuki feels (again assuming this is absolutely critical and the goal) then why exactly is it important that we go over it again and again? This whole exchange may seem redundant to a lot of people, but then again isn't the content of the episodes on both the surface and assumed hidden levels.

[stubby42]

I would just like to point out that in this episode there was slightly more focus on how Mikuru feels about their situation, they went to great details to illustrate her crying.

[Slick_rick]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Also this whole theory came up last week too and people were assuming it was a given goal of the producers, so if people are supposed to already know how Yuki feels (again assuming this is absolutely critical and the goal) then why exactly is it important that we go over it again and again? This whole exchange may seem redundant to a lot of people, but then again isn't the content of the episodes on both the surface and assumed hidden levels.

And weren't most people expecting it to end this episode as they were expecting the episode before this to be the end and the episode before that? Pretty comical when you think about it. Now people are expecting even more loops and are kept guessing. Your hope to see an end to this madness like Yuki, who probably has none at this point, is being worn thin.

Like I said before I don't find it a critical issue but it certainly seems to be there goal and it's fairly interesting way IMHO. Most timeloops don't go out of there way to show you the grim reality of the endless repetitions and unexpected failure to break free each time. If this turns out to be only for money or the LOL'S I'll still find it one of the more original things I've seen in anime. Waiting a week only to greeted with another failed loop and then the experience of saying "maybe next time". Half the fun for me is seeing peoples outraged comments when they don't get what they were expecting.

[JagdPanther]

Okay, so I'm still watching it but not attentively since this is, well, nothing new...

Haruhi without her ribbons is insanely cute.

Other than that... MY GOD. MAKE IT STOP.

[iMoco13]

AH another loop
this could probably be solved if someone spoke up and asked her what she wanted.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by JagdPanther

Haruhi without her ribbons is insanely cute.

Just wait for the inevitable ponytail.

Originally Posted by iMoco13

AH another loop
this could probably be solved if someone spoke up and asked her what she wanted.

...Kyon?

[OkamiNoKaze]

Well she did have a small bitty pony tail this episode. almost looked like Ui from K-on like that.

[Takamura Mamoru]

The entire episode was K-On-nified. Disgusting.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Takamura Mamoru

The entire episode was K-On-nified. Disgusting.

I know you actually watched the episode, but I get the feeling a lot of people complaining only saw screenshots. It really isn't that bad if you don't watch it freeze-framed.

Also what's with that reaction? A little intense, huh?

[fish eric]

I wonder how many fans of the show who watched s1 multiple times have complained about this episode.

It would be funny if someone had watched the first season 4 times and then posted here complaining.

I've personally watched episode 0 the adventures of asahina mikuru probably 5 times.

granted i just really like the theme song

The entire episode was K-On-nified. Disgusting.

I went back and watched some of S1 and wow the animation was way better. This series definitely looks like k-on now. I miss the original style

[Takamura Mamoru]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

I know you actually watched the episode, but I get the feeling a lot of people complaining only saw screenshots. It really isn't that bad if you don't watch it freeze-framed.

Also what's with that reaction? A little intense, huh?

I don't like K-On. I don't like K-On in my Haruhi.
Like that one scene of Haruhi when the group sat at the table and she looked like Yui with that "retard moe" appearance.

I know it's not as bad as you'd think from reading my comment, I guess it's just my annoyance at the massive drop in animation quality piling up, and I'd like to use K-On as a scapegoat. I really miss the Season 1 art.

Originally Posted by fish eric

I've personally watched episode 0 the adventures of asahina mikuru probably 5 times.

Yeah, that episode is incredibly awesome. It's the best mockery of bad fiction I've ever seen. And Kyon shouting at Koizumi for getting to almost kiss Mikuru was comedy gold. I don't know how it sounded in japanese, but in the dub Crispin Freeman managed to give Kyon such a hilariously calm voice while threatening to kill Koizumi.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by fish eric

I went back and watched some of S1 and wow the animation was way better. This series definitely looks like k-on now. I miss the original style

"Art style". The animation is still just as stupendous. The ART STYLE has changed.

No, I don't like it either, but there are people that do.

And really, would half of you be complaining if K-On didn't exist? They've been using this art style for Haruhi official art for years.

[fish eric]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

"Art style". The animation is still just as stupendous. The ART STYLE has changed.

No, I don't like it either, but there are people that do.

And really, would half of you be complaining if K-On didn't exist? They've been using this art style for Haruhi official art for years.

You are right I meant the art style changed. Its not that one is better than the other. I thought that it suited K-on. But the S1 art style was, for me, more pleasing to look at.

The animation is just as high quality. No cabbage in this show.

(did i use that in the correct context?)

Yeah, that episode is incredibly awesome. It's the best mockery of bad fiction I've ever seen. And Kyon shouting at Koizumi for getting to almost kiss Mikuru was comedy gold. I don't know how it sounded in japanese, but in the dub Crispin Freeman managed to give Kyon such a hilariously calm voice while threatening to kill Koizumi.

I watched it several times and... It was the same every time! Hehe at least with endless eights its a little different each time.

When the DVDs come out I am gonna watch all the episodes of endless eights in a row. I think this will give the best effect.



Does anyone think that

Spoiler for anime/novel comparison:

the anime version of endless eights will end different than the novel?

[Ithekro]

I'd point out there is no "QUALITY cabbage" in K-On either. They even animated a cabbage to prove it.

The art is different, but it made Haruhi rather cute, plus finally got her out of that hair ribbon for a little while. Kind of sexy that way.

[OkamiNoKaze]

From what I under stand, it was their intention to do the new episodes in this K-on type fashion from the beginning, even an article I read said the art was going to change that way, though I can't remember where.