AnimeSuki Forums

Skyfall · 2008-03-16, 04:08

Welcome to Gundam 00 Within the Franchise : Discussion and Comparison discussion thread. Since Gundam 00 can be considered notably different in terms of its storytelling and approach to the theme compared to most Gundam shows, the purpose of this thread is to provide a place where your thoughts on the subject can be voiced. Is the storytelling more griping than other Gundam shows ? Does the portrayal of main cast under a shade of gray instead of being clear cut Good vs Bad help in identifying with the characters and make the story more interesting ? How do the grunts of 00 compare to those of other Gundam shows ? Pilots having an edge due to technology instead of skill as it is usually for Gundam; good or bad choice ? This is a discussion place for all questions of similar nature that judges the ups and downs of Gundam 00 within the boundaries of the franchise.

On a final note, the very nature of this discussion means that there will be people who will disagree with your opinion(s). Please practise mutual respect and debate the issue(s) without resorting to personal attacks. There is no credibility in insults, only trouble. Most importantly - have fun

Be polite to your fellow forum members.
Do not insult or harass other members for their likes and dislikes. Do not take it so seriously that you end up in an argument with another forum member because they express a fondness for a character you loathe. Discussion and good spirited banter is always welcome, but harassing people won't be tolerated.
Discuss, not Chat.
Please remember that AnimeSuki is a discussion forum, not a chat room, there is a difference. If you wish to chat, then please make use of our IRC channel (#animeuki) on ZiRC.
Have fun, but post intelligently.
It's great to have fun, but please try your best to add substance to what you post and make your thoughts interesting for the generation of fans that will follow after you’re long gone and on to watching some other series.

watanabe43 · 2008-03-16, 06:11

I will be interested to see if the creative team challenge convention by having the dead stay dead...

EXEs · 2008-03-16, 06:52

Much more interesting than Jesus Yamato and his rainbow spam. Gundam 00 IMO is portrayed more realistically than Gundam Seed/Destiny, in the sense that the main characters are getting their asses kicked as much as the 3 powers, and that they win primarily because their technology is at a much more advanced level, not because they got an immense uncrackable plot shield.

NoOneKnowS · 2008-03-16, 09:09

For me would be the battle scenes. Not unlike some gundam show I know; Gundams in 00 at least have been taking a lot of beating and all that. The grunts here actually has brains(I mean; knows how to fight and all that). And the AEU/Union whatever actually stands of equal grounds when it comes to weapons and all that. (although CB of course has more better tech still the other factions catches up pretty fast).

Demongod86 · 2008-03-16, 10:10

People grasp for straws when they say the grunts are that damn good. More than half of them got wiped out over the course of a single episode. It's more like the fact that the gundam Meisters are probably overall the worst quality of pilots we've seen in the franchise's history, COMPLETELY relying on the gundams' technology advantages than any forms of skill--and it shows.

The grunts are no better than those in CE or certainly not AC's with its computer-reaction-time mobile dolls if we try to draw comparisons. Like CEs, they still drop like flies when the element of surprise is pulled out on them.

"What the?! Gundam?! GET IT!"
"Virtue, exterminating targets"
*Destroyed*

It wasn't until the space battle that the powers started hunting gundams, and even when *that* happened, they *still* got their shit rocked when they got surprised. So far, it looks even because of the desert battle, when the gundams got surprised by 800 units constantly coming in cycles.

Yes, Freedom and Wing Zero had relatively little trouble with grunts. Except Strike and the original five wing gundams actually DID have grunt trouble. The Wing Gundam got sunk by the lowliest of grunt suits in ep 1, and Strike barely survived an ambush by Bucues. The difference here is that the Strike gundam was never out to end any sort of war and never went on the offensive, so far fewer people were expecting it or were out to try and throw traps for it.

So to compare these gundams to Freedom and Wing Zero and such and say ZOMG THESE ARE SO MUCH BETTER CUZ THEY DONT PWN EVERYTHING. They're also the equivalent of the first half of the series gundams, and indeed, they basically COULD pwn everything if the pilots were good enough to. In the desert battle, it wasn't the gundams that got severely damaged. It was the PILOTS.

The only people that managed to win a battle against a gundam are Graham (perhaps...if he would have stayed and fought, he would have died far sooner than Johann), and Ali.

But here's the kicker...what did Ali do it in? Oh yeah, the GUNDAM throne Zwei.

So basically, we're back to square one...only a gundam can defeat another gundam. Or fine, a piece of the GN arms. The difference is NOT in the quality of the gundams. The difference is in the quality of the PILOTS, who've been the worst we've seen in a series yet. People simply laud that because the meisters aren't wtfpwning everything. I say why the hell do the Meisters suck so much?

SonicX_Zero · 2008-03-16, 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by EXEs

Much more interesting than Jesus Yamato and his rainbow spam. Gundam 00 IMO is portrayed more realistically than Gundam Seed/Destiny, in the sense that the main characters are getting their asses kicked as much as the 3 powers, and that they win primarily because their technology is at a much more advanced level, not because they got an immense uncrackable plot shield.

Well it certainly didn't take long for these kind of posts to appear, and its the 2nd post to boot.

Mister Mister · 2008-03-16, 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demongod86

I say why the hell do the Meisters suck so much?

because 00 is showing what would really happen if you just pulled a bunch of teenagers/twentysomethings off the street and stuck them in a giant robot, that is, their complete lack of experience is obvious and dangerous.

dom33 · 2008-03-16, 11:17

@DG86 yes kira showed a great amount of skills pressing a button.though you do have a point about first half mechs and second half mechs though you forgot one thing the enemy also gets better mechs (usually better than the good guys) thus possing a threat to the hero in his new mech which allow the hero to grow and show his skills. (though in the first gundam amuro never got a second mech)

@sonicx zero yes I knew those kind of post were coming with this topic.(hell this post is one of them!)

RisArk · 2008-03-16, 11:34

Might as well rename the thread to "Demongod86's Jollygood Rant"

Tsukiyomi · 2008-03-16, 11:45

@Demongod86

Sure it's the pilots that aren't as godly as compared to other gundam series if you wanna be so specific. Asuran can kick most people's asses in a grunt mobile suit as well and Kira is the ultimate coordinator. But the essence of the fighting so far in Gundam 00 is that they don't give off the image of being invincible. Their Gundam's capabilities are limited and they can't spam crazy rainbow lasers destroying a whole fleet of enemies.

And wasn't it Zechs Merquise that gruntcided his mobile suit with Heero in episode 1 sending him to the bottom of the ocean?

I think the director and writers keep themselves on their toes to keep the Gundams from gaining the invincibility factor in this show. Like whenever they are out numbered or about to be beaten, they will be beaten... until someone else comes saves them. There is no Seed mode (altho they do trick us sometimes a la Setsuna) and quickly play it off as something else.

Ali Sarges and Graham stand in the upper ranks of skill in this series; they can beat gundams with grunt mobile suits. While most of the Gundam pilots have enough skill just to barely be above the grunts. Well.... except for Lockon as we seen from episode 23, he can actually stand head to head with Ali [in a Gundam!] in that episode and nearly beat him.. (with Melee and with ONE eye) until he got ambushed from behind causing Dynames blasted into pieces =(

Demongod86 · 2008-03-16, 12:05

Of course it was Zechs that grunticided his suit. But so far, Zechs is prolly the only pilot in history that took down a gundam with the lowliest of grunt suits. As I've said time and again, Zechs is probably the single best pilot in the franchise past UC (though I'd argue that he's better than them too, but let's not rile up the UC fanboys) when he has his mind set on a just cause. And Noin is probably the single coolest femme pilot in the whole franchise.

brightman · 2008-03-16, 12:19

Wing got sunk by Zech's Leo in Ep 1? You mean when Heero decided to fall asleep midway through the "fight" (consisting of Leo charging at Wing with a beam saber) and drop into the ocean uncontested with the Leo attached?

That was one of the dumbest "fights" in Wing. Comparing 00's Gundam struggles with the grunts with garbage like that just doesn't work.

As for Kira and the BuCUEs, yeah, he struggled. Unfortunately "SEED" happened. At least 00 doesn't have unexplained phenomena that just pops out of nowhere, gets no explanation, and for no reason other than to justify the title of the show.

hamstar · 2008-03-16, 12:25

nobody is really disagreeing that the pilots are mediocre or sucking compared to previous franchise pilots

That being said, it's pretty unrealistic to see pilots that can dodge laser beams from every direction like a joke the way kira does. When you see that you know the anime is so far removed from reality and stupid. But hey if you into fiction like that go ahead right? It makes more sense for technologically advanced gundam to wipe out armies of grunts but it doesnt make much sense when an ace pilot destroys fleets of grunts with a MS on the same playing field. Yes this is anime but a mature viewer expects some reality within the context of the show. 00 has had some things that made me question the believeability of the show (such as hails of missils and rifle shots not denting the gundams) but these are very minor compared to what I have seen in seed/destiny.

bottom line is this, gundam 00 is by far the most realistic gundam series to date. If you wanna watch something unrealistic and so far removed from reality go watch seed, better yet go watch seed destiny. I hope 00 keeps the integrety of their show doesnt revive dead characters just because a tonne of viewers cry like babies. I challenge anyone to argue that seed/destiny was more realistic than 00.

Demongod86 · 2008-03-16, 12:32

I'm not sure they came from every direction against Kira usually. More often than not, it seemed to come from ONE way and when they DID come from multiple directions (providence), he nearly ate it. And as for grunts being on the same tech level as Freedom/SF, those things could not wield anywhere near its firepower since it had a nuclear reactor going full speed.

Sir Dearka · 2008-03-16, 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamstar

I challenge anyone to argue that seed/destiny was more realistic than 00.

No, it wasn't, but it doesn't make it any worse. Just different.

There are legions of crybabies. I'm one of them. The death of a protagonist I like really does have a huge impact on me as a viewer. But it doesn't mean I want the character to be revived. At least not if it'd look lame or forced.

Demongod86 · 2008-03-16, 13:58

Unless he NEVER DIED.

Hello: In GSD, Shinn's helmet was cracked I believe when he got out of his Destiny. Did he die? No. Shit, did MWU die after being smashed by a Lohengrin? No. Did Heero Yuy die after getting run across the ground by a self detonation or falling 50 feet on his head? No. Ditto Zechs? No.

Lockon has too much manliness to ever truly die. Shit, he's almost as manly as Captain Falcon, except he doesn't have enough manliness to blow up a solar system with a single punch >_<

Sir Dearka · 2008-03-16, 14:11

I rather fancy the idea of not showing his body in the movie, if he's dead. And I'd rather have him being missed by many people and be remembered as the cool guy from the first half of the season than bring him back after such a beautiful "last" scene.

RedWing · 2008-03-16, 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demongod86

Unless he NEVER DIED.

Hello: In GSD, Shinn's helmet was cracked I believe when he got out of his Destiny. Did he die? No. Shit, did MWU die after being smashed by a Lohengrin? No. Did Heero Yuy die after getting run across the ground by a self detonation or falling 50 feet on his head? No. Ditto Zechs? No.

Lockon has too much manliness to ever truly die. Shit, he's almost as manly as Captain Falcon, except he doesn't have enough manliness to blow up a solar system with a single punch >_<

IIRC Heero jumped out of some building 50 feet and just readjusted the bones, so i don't think that he quite fits in. Mwu should have died and it was one of the stupidest ideas in Destiny.

Demongod86 · 2008-03-16, 18:07

But why have a badass death scene be the end? Why not have it be a badass almost-death scene?

JediNight · 2008-03-16, 18:15

Because actual death has more impact than almost-death. And he just had an almost-death like 2 episodes earlier ;x

But honestly, it's good to see some major characters getting killed off at an earlier point. That's been a major problem of Gundam specifically and anime in general lately -- everyone tends to live until the very end no matter what, and it lessens the impact of the story IMHO.

The lack of military pilots under the age of ~25 is nice to see for once as well.

2008-03-16, 04:08	Link #1
Skyfall Lost in my dreams... Join Date: Jun 2006 Age: 37	Gundam 00 Within the Franchise : Discussion and Comparison Welcome to Gundam 00 Within the Franchise : Discussion and Comparison discussion thread. Since Gundam 00 can be considered notably different in terms of its storytelling and approach to the theme compared to most Gundam shows, the purpose of this thread is to provide a place where your thoughts on the subject can be voiced. Is the storytelling more griping than other Gundam shows ? Does the portrayal of main cast under a shade of gray instead of being clear cut Good vs Bad help in identifying with the characters and make the story more interesting ? How do the grunts of 00 compare to those of other Gundam shows ? Pilots having an edge due to technology instead of skill as it is usually for Gundam; good or bad choice ? This is a discussion place for all questions of similar nature that judges the ups and downs of Gundam 00 within the boundaries of the franchise. On a final note, the very nature of this discussion means that there will be people who will disagree with your opinion(s). Please practise mutual respect and debate the issue(s) without resorting to personal attacks. There is no credibility in insults, only trouble. Most importantly - have fun Be polite to your fellow forum members. Do not insult or harass other members for their likes and dislikes. Do not take it so seriously that you end up in an argument with another forum member because they express a fondness for a character you loathe. Discussion and good spirited banter is always welcome, but harassing people won't be tolerated. Discuss, not Chat. Please remember that AnimeSuki is a discussion forum, not a chat room, there is a difference. If you wish to chat, then please make use of our IRC channel (#animeuki) on ZiRC. Have fun, but post intelligently. It's great to have fun, but please try your best to add substance to what you post and make your thoughts interesting for the generation of fans that will follow after you’re long gone and on to watching some other series.

2008-03-16, 06:11	Link #2
watanabe43 Justified and ancient Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: UK	I will be interested to see if the creative team challenge convention by having the dead stay dead... __________________ my signature was s*it

2008-03-16, 10:10	Link #5
Demongod86 Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW Join Date: Dec 2005	People grasp for straws when they say the grunts are that damn good. More than half of them got wiped out over the course of a single episode. It's more like the fact that the gundam Meisters are probably overall the worst quality of pilots we've seen in the franchise's history, COMPLETELY relying on the gundams' technology advantages than any forms of skill--and it shows. The grunts are no better than those in CE or certainly not AC's with its computer-reaction-time mobile dolls if we try to draw comparisons. Like CEs, they still drop like flies when the element of surprise is pulled out on them. "What the?! Gundam?! GET IT!" "Virtue, exterminating targets" Destroyed It wasn't until the space battle that the powers started hunting gundams, and even when that happened, they still got their shit rocked when they got surprised. So far, it looks even because of the desert battle, when the gundams got surprised by 800 units constantly coming in cycles. Yes, Freedom and Wing Zero had relatively little trouble with grunts. Except Strike and the original five wing gundams actually DID have grunt trouble. The Wing Gundam got sunk by the lowliest of grunt suits in ep 1, and Strike barely survived an ambush by Bucues. The difference here is that the Strike gundam was never out to end any sort of war and never went on the offensive, so far fewer people were expecting it or were out to try and throw traps for it. So to compare these gundams to Freedom and Wing Zero and such and say ZOMG THESE ARE SO MUCH BETTER CUZ THEY DONT PWN EVERYTHING. They're also the equivalent of the first half of the series gundams, and indeed, they basically COULD pwn everything if the pilots were good enough to. In the desert battle, it wasn't the gundams that got severely damaged. It was the PILOTS. The only people that managed to win a battle against a gundam are Graham (perhaps...if he would have stayed and fought, he would have died far sooner than Johann), and Ali. But here's the kicker...what did Ali do it in? Oh yeah, the GUNDAM throne Zwei. So basically, we're back to square one...only a gundam can defeat another gundam. Or fine, a piece of the GN arms. The difference is NOT in the quality of the gundams. The difference is in the quality of the PILOTS, who've been the worst we've seen in a series yet. People simply laud that because the meisters aren't wtfpwning everything. I say why the hell do the Meisters suck so much? __________________ Signature stolen by a horde of carnivorous bunnies. It is an unscientifically proven fact that they are attracted to signatures which break the signature rules.

2008-03-16, 11:17	Link #8
dom33 Pat:TAISAAAAA! Join Date: Dec 2005	@DG86 yes kira showed a great amount of skills pressing a button.though you do have a point about first half mechs and second half mechs though you forgot one thing the enemy also gets better mechs (usually better than the good guys) thus possing a threat to the hero in his new mech which allow the hero to grow and show his skills. (though in the first gundam amuro never got a second mech) @sonicx zero yes I knew those kind of post were coming with this topic.(hell this post is one of them!) __________________ d33:"the only ones allowed to bash should be those who are prepared to be bashed!" Onizuka-GTO:yeah, great post WD, but also puzzled. if it's a race you see, okay then. but at the moment it's a one man race, with Suzuku doing timed laps against his personal best.... WhiteWings:To this day I don't know what the insanity behind the decision to release the first GSD ending. My God that was without a doubt the worst ending I had ever seen in my life in a anime series. Blizzer: He already has special powers called super pheromone powers which makes him irresistable to Sekirei's in heat. Last edited by dom33; 2008-03-16 at 11:32.

2008-03-16, 11:45	Link #10
Tsukiyomi step closer to Amaterasu Join Date: Apr 2004	@Demongod86 Sure it's the pilots that aren't as godly as compared to other gundam series if you wanna be so specific. Asuran can kick most people's asses in a grunt mobile suit as well and Kira is the ultimate coordinator. But the essence of the fighting so far in Gundam 00 is that they don't give off the image of being invincible. Their Gundam's capabilities are limited and they can't spam crazy rainbow lasers destroying a whole fleet of enemies. And wasn't it Zechs Merquise that gruntcided his mobile suit with Heero in episode 1 sending him to the bottom of the ocean? I think the director and writers keep themselves on their toes to keep the Gundams from gaining the invincibility factor in this show. Like whenever they are out numbered or about to be beaten, they will be beaten... until someone else comes saves them. There is no Seed mode (altho they do trick us sometimes a la Setsuna) and quickly play it off as something else. Ali Sarges and Graham stand in the upper ranks of skill in this series; they can beat gundams with grunt mobile suits. While most of the Gundam pilots have enough skill just to barely be above the grunts. Well.... except for Lockon as we seen from episode 23, he can actually stand head to head with Ali [in a Gundam!] in that episode and nearly beat him.. (with Melee and with ONE eye) until he got ambushed from behind causing Dynames blasted into pieces =( __________________ He whose strength is flawless

2008-03-16, 06:52	Link #3
EXEs Hallelujah... Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Age: 32	Much more interesting than Jesus Yamato and his rainbow spam. Gundam 00 IMO is portrayed more realistically than Gundam Seed/Destiny, in the sense that the main characters are getting their asses kicked as much as the 3 powers, and that they win primarily because their technology is at a much more advanced level, not because they got an immense uncrackable plot shield.

2008-03-16, 09:09	Link #4
NoOneKnowS Who am I? Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Babuyan Islands	For me would be the battle scenes. Not unlike some gundam show I know; Gundams in 00 at least have been taking a lot of beating and all that. The grunts here actually has brains(I mean; knows how to fight and all that). And the AEU/Union whatever actually stands of equal grounds when it comes to weapons and all that. (although CB of course has more better tech still the other factions catches up pretty fast).

2008-03-16, 11:34	Link #9
RisArk Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006	Might as well rename the thread to "Demongod86's Jollygood Rant"

2008-03-16, 12:05	Link #11
Demongod86 Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW Join Date: Dec 2005	Of course it was Zechs that grunticided his suit. But so far, Zechs is prolly the only pilot in history that took down a gundam with the lowliest of grunt suits. As I've said time and again, Zechs is probably the single best pilot in the franchise past UC (though I'd argue that he's better than them too, but let's not rile up the UC fanboys) when he has his mind set on a just cause. And Noin is probably the single coolest femme pilot in the whole franchise. __________________ Signature stolen by a horde of carnivorous bunnies. It is an unscientifically proven fact that they are attracted to signatures which break the signature rules.

2008-03-16, 12:19	Link #12
brightman Ancient Member Join Date: Apr 2002	Wing got sunk by Zech's Leo in Ep 1? You mean when Heero decided to fall asleep midway through the "fight" (consisting of Leo charging at Wing with a beam saber) and drop into the ocean uncontested with the Leo attached? That was one of the dumbest "fights" in Wing. Comparing 00's Gundam struggles with the grunts with garbage like that just doesn't work. As for Kira and the BuCUEs, yeah, he struggled. Unfortunately "SEED" happened. At least 00 doesn't have unexplained phenomena that just pops out of nowhere, gets no explanation, and for no reason other than to justify the title of the show. __________________ Copyright © 2002 Brightman

2008-03-16, 12:25	Link #13
hamstar just passing by Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Exia	nobody is really disagreeing that the pilots are mediocre or sucking compared to previous franchise pilots That being said, it's pretty unrealistic to see pilots that can dodge laser beams from every direction like a joke the way kira does. When you see that you know the anime is so far removed from reality and stupid. But hey if you into fiction like that go ahead right? It makes more sense for technologically advanced gundam to wipe out armies of grunts but it doesnt make much sense when an ace pilot destroys fleets of grunts with a MS on the same playing field. Yes this is anime but a mature viewer expects some reality within the context of the show. 00 has had some things that made me question the believeability of the show (such as hails of missils and rifle shots not denting the gundams) but these are very minor compared to what I have seen in seed/destiny. bottom line is this, gundam 00 is by far the most realistic gundam series to date. If you wanna watch something unrealistic and so far removed from reality go watch seed, better yet go watch seed destiny. I hope 00 keeps the integrety of their show doesnt revive dead characters just because a tonne of viewers cry like babies. I challenge anyone to argue that seed/destiny was more realistic than 00. __________________ Last edited by hamstar; 2008-03-16 at 12:36.

2008-03-16, 12:32	Link #14
Demongod86 Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW Join Date: Dec 2005	I'm not sure they came from every direction against Kira usually. More often than not, it seemed to come from ONE way and when they DID come from multiple directions (providence), he nearly ate it. And as for grunts being on the same tech level as Freedom/SF, those things could not wield anywhere near its firepower since it had a nuclear reactor going full speed. __________________ Signature stolen by a horde of carnivorous bunnies. It is an unscientifically proven fact that they are attracted to signatures which break the signature rules.

2008-03-16, 13:58	Link #16
Demongod86 Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW Join Date: Dec 2005	Unless he NEVER DIED. Hello: In GSD, Shinn's helmet was cracked I believe when he got out of his Destiny. Did he die? No. Shit, did MWU die after being smashed by a Lohengrin? No. Did Heero Yuy die after getting run across the ground by a self detonation or falling 50 feet on his head? No. Ditto Zechs? No. Lockon has too much manliness to ever truly die. Shit, he's almost as manly as Captain Falcon, except he doesn't have enough manliness to blow up a solar system with a single punch >_< __________________ Signature stolen by a horde of carnivorous bunnies. It is an unscientifically proven fact that they are attracted to signatures which break the signature rules.

2008-03-16, 14:11	Link #17
Sir Dearka Inglourious Buster Join Date: Dec 2007	I rather fancy the idea of not showing his body in the movie, if he's dead. And I'd rather have him being missed by many people and be remembered as the cool guy from the first half of the season than bring him back after such a beautiful "last" scene.

2008-03-16, 18:07	Link #19
Demongod86 Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW Join Date: Dec 2005	But why have a badass death scene be the end? Why not have it be a badass almost-death scene? __________________ Signature stolen by a horde of carnivorous bunnies. It is an unscientifically proven fact that they are attracted to signatures which break the signature rules.

2008-03-16, 18:15	Link #20
JediNight キズランダム Join Date: Apr 2003	Because actual death has more impact than almost-death. And he just had an almost-death like 2 episodes earlier ;x But honestly, it's good to see some major characters getting killed off at an earlier point. That's been a major problem of Gundam specifically and anime in general lately -- everyone tends to live until the very end no matter what, and it lessens the impact of the story IMHO. The lack of military pilots under the age of ~25 is nice to see for once as well.