Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 15 Discussion / Poll

[sart]

Originally Posted by bbduece

I dont get why they walk into this trap.

The screaming made by setsuna at the end of the episode is retarded.

I hope we get to see nadleeh in action soon.

They walked in because they had to. How would anyone take them seriously otherwise if they ran at any sign of resistance?

[Narutaro]

I thought the screaming is very emotional and a high point of this episode.

great episode. love it. many people seems to not like it because they think the gundam is too invicible to only have scratches and dent, or that the pilot should have done more than just stand there being bombarded. anyway, other poster have put their defense about this and I agree with them

Gundam's armor is well eastablished to be damn strong in this series, even stronger than phase shift in gundam seed series, but I like that it didn't make the pilot invincible.

and for people saying that Sumeragi don't prepare them enough. I think there's one point that even Sumeragi didn't expect. right after Tieria use the burst canon, the retaliation to their location come very quickly, much guicker then the meister expected. I think the meister hope that the allied forces will be more focused on Dynames, Kirios, and count on the time they will need to adjust to Exia and Tieria for Tieria to recharge or to do something else. instead what happened the missile come so quickly that they got pinned down and a sitting duck for the attack.

one other thing, with many people seems to think this episode is very unrealistic. I'm surprised no one mentioned the amount of ammo the 3 power bloc use on the gundam. I think they release more than a hundred missiles in just one attack, and they continue this for hours before the aces come to play. really, the resources seems too over the top even if it's the 3 power bloc.

[Papaya]

Originally Posted by sart

They walked in because they had to. How would anyone take them seriously otherwise if they ran at any sign of resistance?

Pretty sure that no one thinks CB is a joke at this point.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by monstert

Of course, most things done by someone in an emotional state would be retarded to an outside party who doesn't share the same emotion and/or cannot empathize (or is it sympathize, lol) with that person. That is to be expected, though.

Originally Posted by Narutaro

I thought the screaming is very emotional and a high point of this episode.

Exactly...That part was so surreal...And once again for Gundam fans who have seen many series besides CE it had a nostalgic feel for me...The Gundam's symbolism with Setsuna's cries for some kind of hope...For the Gundam to be that hope really hits home...It's to be expected that some will miss out on the meaning frustrated with other aspects of this show they don't enjoy, but if Setsuna's screaming was retarded I can only imagine how one would veiw Steller or Shinn's dramatic wailings...

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Papaya

Pretty sure that no one thinks CB is a joke at this point.

It was stated in 14 why CB had to go in.

I mean that uranium facility wasn't just targeted for no reason.

[bbduece]

I dont buy it, that reason is not enough to go on a suicide mission. Unless they are all anticipating thier own deaths. The scene where marina is having a flashback suggested something like setsuna is somewhat expecting death. This will also explains why he visited her the night before. Maybe a talk with her one last time before he meets his maker.

I was thinking what would be the point to do this mission if they dont survie. Let say they stop them this time from targeting the facility but dies along the way, wont it be pointless since after the meisters died, the nations can mount another attack and there will be no major resistence since all the meisters are dead. I know they had to go in because thats thier job, but from a tactical view point this mission should not have been carried out.

[monster]

Originally Posted by bbduece

I was thinking what would be the point to do this mission if they dont survie. Let say they stop them from this time from targeting the facility but dies along the way, wont it be pointless since after the meisters died, the nations can mount another attack and there will be no major resistence since all the meisters are dead. I know they had to go in because thats thier job, but from a tactical view point this mission should not have been carried out.

I believe that is exactly why the Thrones interfered: to make sure the gundams are not captured and the pilots survive.

[DJ_RockmanX]

Menclave has released.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Well I'm taking into account the fact his Jumbo Gundam has the worse mobility for that environment and he was basically caught by a procedure never seen before (AUE's Glowbox thingy)...That was prolly his worse performance, but after 15 hrs of attrition I guess that's the best he could do...I have no godly clue why hiding Nadleeh is even a decision at that point..He needed to loose the fuselage for better mobility...

Actually, there is a reason for not using Nadleeh; all of the parts from Virtue would need to be left behind. This battle is pretty hopeless for an actual victory, so they must retreat.... however that means there is no chance to recover the pieces of Virtue when they fall off... it may not be the GN drive, but the nations still might be able to learn a quite a bit from the pieces... stuff like the Vitrue's huge cannon, and what kind of armor it has....

Not to Mention, while Nadleeh might be better in a close range fight, Virtue is much better for mass destruction and taking a bombardment; which is what they were mostly dealing with until the very end

As for Patrick it took alot out of me not to rank him above Lockon...Lockon has no melee ability I can see of at this point...This fight really showed the weakness of the Gundams to fight full scale verses fighting comparable with their MS ability like it's been shown earlier (Setsuna is really the only pilot that has a chance in this type of fight because of his superior mobility and melee skills--Or if Hallelujah would have felt like fighting, Kyrios could have done some damage too)...When in their element working as a team they rock, but an upfront battle makes them look rather bad individually...A better plan would have been for all 4 Gundam to fight together rather than spliting them up....The new Fugundam doesn't seem like it will have that problem as it looks versed in a bevy of styles...

Technically, one thing you need to remember is that this battle doesn't show off the pilot's lack of skill, but more like the limits... By the time the Ace pilots went in for some close range fighting, the Meisters were suffering from 15 hours worth a fatigue; the aces on the other hand, are well rested. Really, if you have ever tried driving a long distance, like 5-10 hours, despite the fact that you are sitting down, you most likely will feel very exhausted unless you are very accustomed to driving long distances like that... The Meisters are suffering from advanced fatigue so their ability to fight has gone WAY down... if it weren't for the fatigue, Virtue might have aimed better and faster to kill Patrick, and Lock on might have been able to keep Grahram at a distance

[Sinestra]

Everything that really needs to be said about this episode pretty much has already been said but i will add a few points of my own.

1. The 3 world powers did their homework they learned how to hit the Gundams and how to separate to make them easier to catch.

2.Sheer numbers over brawn it doesnt always work but with a good plan and a good trap the result is all that matters and it was clearly shown.

3.IMO the plan that celestial being had was kind of flawed allowing for them to be pinned down and taken apart easier

4. The 3 world powers have given Celestial Being the excuse to bring out the Thrones. Gathering that much military force together obviously being a lie the justification is now there. If they thought the Meisters were a pain they have no clue what they have unleashed. The title for the next episode is the Holy Trinity and omg does it does it deserve it (after doing some research of my own) the shit is about to hit the fan even harder.

5.IMO even with the Gundams captured i still dont think any of the powers would have ended up with a whole Gundam. All of the meisters were still conscious. I am sure that all of them given the opportunity would have self destructed. They mentioned this in a previous episode that no one would get their hands on a Gundam and they were willing to give their lives to keep it that way.

Nice episode solid 9

[bbduece]

Are you assuming that nadleeh is melee or is that real, where are you getting this info from?

[sart]

Originally Posted by Papaya

Pretty sure that no one thinks CB is a joke at this point.

obviously not but if having the 3 sides join up is what it takes whats to stop them from playing that card again?

[Papaya]

Originally Posted by sart

obviously not but if having the 3 sides join up is what it takes whats to stop them from playing that card again?

Rather, do they have the money to do this every time?
I'm pretty sure concentrating the bulk of the world's armaments in one place is a stupid idea--past, present, or future. Think what a nuke would do, for example.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by bbduece

Are you assuming that nadleeh is melee or is that real, where are you getting this info from?

What i mean by close range, i mean, not extremely long range where the unit is dealing with only a few enemies... Nadleeh looks as though it would have much better agility and speed and thus make it much more capable in closer ranges; where as Virtue is big and slow and better suited for when the battle stays far away

[Nu Gundam]

Originally Posted by Zeta Gundam

Not impossible since the youngest ever was 13 years old

Elpe Puru of ZZ was 10.




I seriously cannot wait for the next episode, though. Unlike the spoilers,

Spoiler for Safety.:

it doesn't look to be a recap

[Joachim]

oh man this episode was awesome

i always had a thing or two for massive artillery and missile barrage

from the way i look at it, the gundam meister should have know that this mission is kinda a suicide mission, but the reason of why they did it maybe will be explained in next episode

- Even after massive bombardment the gundam armor isn't even destroyed, sure it has some scratch or two, but man it is a carpet bombing, and to escape with scratch only... now thats what kinda not clicked with me, come on, after those bombing and they dont even have any massive damage, why can't they just slowly move to regroup if their armor isn't exactly affected with that (alright i know im gonna get flamed for this, but seriously think about it, in case of 1000vs4 its better to form a group rather than fight defenselessly alone, increasing their chance or survival, unless they wanted their unit to be captured) well my opinion will be nulled if it is just a lazy part of the animator (not animating the broken armor)

but i do agree for the last part when they spread to escape, considering that was the only time the carpet bombing stopped, better to take chance to escape with one unit than having all four captured (but still kinda silly)

but anyway this is the gundam show that i really want, not some grunt-acrobating-pawning-invicible-gundam lol, at least it knock some sense when it is literally impossible to defeat 1000++ army with only 4 gundam despite all of their superiority in technology

[sart]

Originally Posted by Papaya

Rather, do they have the money to do this every time?
I'm pretty sure concentrating the bulk of the world's armaments in one place is a stupid idea--past, present, or future. Think what a nuke would do, for example.

who said they'd have to use armaments? What your saying is if they just show up it'll deter the gundams from intervening which is what i would call stupid.\

Anyways ill go back to my original statement. The gundams went in well aware it was a trap, to show that they wont be bullied.

[DJ_RockmanX]

Originally Posted by Joachim

from the way i look at it, the gundam meister should have know that this mission is kinda a suicide mission, but the reason of why they did it maybe will be explained in next episode

Tieria said it last episode: "But we'll still go because we are Celestial Being."

They'd break their principles otherwise, and what good is a group like CB if they don't defend their own ideology?

Originally Posted by Joachim

- Even after massive bombardment the gundam armor isn't even destroyed, sure it has some scratch or two, but man it is a carpet bombing, and to escape with scratch only... now thats what kinda not clicked with me, come on, after those bombing and they dont even have any massive damage, why can't they just slowly move to regroup if their armor isn't exactly affected with that (alright i know im gonna get flamed for this, but seriously think about it, in case of 1000vs4 its better to form a group rather than fight defenselessly alone, increasing their chance or survival, unless they wanted their unit to be captured) well my opinion will be nulled if it is just a lazy part of the animator (not animating the broken armor)

Not drawing in the scratches is just because there's little sense in using so much budget to do so, except for closeup shots of the battle-worn Gundams (which they did for Kyrios at least, I'll have to rewatch to check for any other parts where they drew battle damage).

As for not regrouping, CB's plan of escaping (after Dynames and Kyrios were brought to the ground) was completely dependent on having Virtue clear a path for Lockon and Allelujah to meet up with Setsuna and Tieria, hence blowing up the Hellion battalion in a single shot with Burst Mode, and creating a trench for them to travel through with minimal enemy fire. This all took too long though, and things were doomed once Soma and the HRL squadron came in, stopping Allelujah and Lockon from making it to Setsuna and Tieria.

Originally Posted by Joachim

but i do agree for the last part when they spread to escape, considering that was the only time the carpet bombing stopped, better to take chance to escape with one unit than having all four captured (but still kinda silly)

This is actually where I think it would have been better for Setsuna to stick with Tieria; if they didn't split up, Exia would have been able to protect Virtue from the AEU's capture unit.

Originally Posted by Joachim

but anyway this is the gundam show that i really want, not some grunt-acrobating-pawning-invicible-gundam lol, at least it knock some sense when it is literally impossible to defeat 1000++ army with only 4 gundam despite all of their superiority in technology

At least this much I agree with.

[sart]

Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX

Tieria said it last episode: "But we'll still go because we are Celestial Being."

They'd break their principles otherwise, and what good is a group like CB if they don't defend their own ideology?

This is exactly what i've been trying to say. Suppose the gundams didnt show, what would that say about CB's resolve to stopping war / military expansion etc? How can you expect them to make such claims and yet back off at the sign of trouble?

[chrisbad726]

after this battle the Gundams are going to be upgrade with add ons or what not.