[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni Chiru - Ep. 5 End of the golden witch

[Smeckledorf]

Originally Posted by maximilianjenus

red text is a fact, that's all about it, it can be a fact for a specific fragment or it can be a fact for a group of fragments, that's all about it; all the talk about creating red text is unnecesary, it as only done for the trial's sake.




How so ? I don't rememebr a single red text saying natsuhi has never been kinzo's lover which is the only way to prove that.

I do not remember that red text, I remember one saying Natsuhi has always been pure and faithful but that is about the closest thing I could remember to that.

[maximilianjenus]

But, there is gohda's diary, which pretty much implies natsuhi is kinzo's lover, unless you want to say that was renon or munon.

[Marion]

Originally Posted by maximilianjenus

But, there is gohda's diary, which pretty much implies natsuhi is kinzo's lover, unless you want to say that was renon or munon.

Again, these are Gohda's thoughts. That doesn't make them true. Can you quote exactly the part you're talking about, because I don't recall anything of this nature.

[maximilianjenus]

Will do so wehn I am back at home, as I need a link to gohda's diary; making it short he sees a person that could only be either natsuhi or jessica ( shannon should be too young at that time, unless shanon age is a troll which is possible) walking in a negligee during the night, while he refuses to accept it was natsuhi she is the best match out of the people in the island.

[trialxerror]

Gohda's Diary: http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=3094
I think it was Kumasawa

[maximilianjenus]

Since that was a floating shadow, I somewhat had the impression of a female figure.
Among the servants, there's no one with a silhouette like that, so I automaticaly thought it was Madam or Milady. Somehow, it looked like the silhouette of something like a negligee.

I refuse to think that it was jessica.

[Marion]

Except:

1) Gohda said the two (Krauss and Natsuhi) were already sleeping
2) He was in the reception hall, which is where Beatrice's portrait should be.

And he could have seen things, since he was a little paranoid by the Beatrice legend. Everyone sometimes thinks they see things at night time.

This is hardly any proof that Natsuhi and Kinzo are lovers. Just because Natsuhi might have been wearing negligee doesn't mean she's sleeping around with Kinzo.

[Jan-Poo]

I think it was Shannon

[Kitsu]

It was Kshannon.
As Shannon is actually flatchested and therefore able to pretend to be Kanon (you can't bind those boobs down and if she does..poor boobs ) Of course Gohda doesn't think that the frame is Shannon because he never saw her without her fake boobs....

Acutally this was intented to be a joke but it would make a tiny bit sense. Except taht Gohda thought it could be Milady or Madame (which both have a nice size)

So lets think about it in more detail. It can't be the curves who made Gohda think that it can't be one of the servants. Because if we trsut Battler one can't decide by eyes if Shannon or Jessica is bigger. Normally the bust size is kinda proportional to the hip (of course this isn't always the case) so I wouldn't be surprised if SHannon and Jessica do have a similiar sized hip (this sounds strange). And even if not it was a bit dark and a few centimeters wouldn't really make a difference since Gohda woulden't have noticed that.

So if it isn't the curves than what could have told Gohda that it wasn't one of the servants but someone like Madame or Milady.
The heigh! Natsuhi as she is a grown woman is of course "tall" and I believe even so it wasn't stated by anyone Jessica as she is older etc is taller than Shannon.
Also

Actually, I have already seen Milady being censured by Madam about her clothes being out of shape and receiving reprimands.

She might as well thought "screw mother! I'm gonna pee! Why should change if I jsut have to go to pee!" and walked out with the negligee. (As negligee can actually be some kind of night wear and Gohda thought about Pijamas I don't think the badly seductive was meant with it)

Just my two cents of overanalyzing haha

[Ronove]

Hmm... I think we are overexaggerating on the disguises. We must remember this IS the 1980's. If we're going through history, I doubt full realistic disguises could work (this is my opinion anyways).

Also, I suppose tons are suspecting Shannon as the culprit? I feel bad for Natsushi for being a victim or "The Erika".

Question here: What were the red in Japanese for Natsushi/Krauss of NOT being the culprit? Does it apply to all games?

Also, apparently Battler knows "the Truth." So he knows the culprit right? How can we NOT understand thiS?!

[Jan-Poo]

Frankly if he couldn't tell if it was Jessica, a 16-17 years old girl, or her 45+ years old mother I definitely doubt he can tell for sure it wasn't Shannon.

[Kitsu]

Frankly if he couldn't tell if it was Jessica, a 16-17 years old girl, or her 45+ years old mother I definitely doubt he can tell for sure it wasn't Shannon.

As Natsuhi and any of the other MILFs don't have any signs of their age especially not in their build (crooked walk etc) it is natural that he can't differ between the daughter and the mother by just the back. Another thing that maybe made him think of them is the pony tail

[rogerpepitone]

Or possibly: The servants' rooms are downstairs. Seeing somebody upstairs and in nightclothes, Gohda thought of the people with rooms upstairs.

[Knicknevin]

What's all this talk about Gohda's diary? Am I just ignorant? Did I sleep through that scene?

[Thunder Book]

It was a special TIP released in a special booklet IIRC.

[Knicknevin]

Originally Posted by Thunder Book

It was a special TIP released in a special booklet IIRC.

Huh. Guess I'll have to look around for it, thanks. But still... someone roaming the halls in their nightys? Well, I expected... something like that, I suppose. But he thought it was Natsuhi or Jessica? Makes me think back to a time when I had speculated that Jessica or Krauss may have killed Kinzo after he raped/molested Jessica. Or tried to at least.

It was probably Shannon though. But now that's gonna knaw at me... I originally cast Jessica as Beatrice, and only shifted over after a great deal of thought...


edit: derp. Someone linked to it earlier in the thread. I'm blind.

[maximilianjenus]

Originally Posted by Ronove

Hmm... I think we are overexaggerating on the disguises. We must remember this IS the 1980's. If we're going through history, I doubt full realistic disguises could work (this is my opinion anyways).

Also, I suppose tons are suspecting Shannon as the culprit? I feel bad for Natsushi for being a victim or "The Erika".

Question here: What were the red in Japanese for Natsushi/Krauss of NOT being the culprit? Does it apply to all games?

Also, apparently Battler knows "the Truth." So he knows the culprit right? How can we NOT understand thiS?!

red text does not apply to all games unless explicitly said otherwise.

I don't think that shannon is the culprit, I just think she is some kind of beatrice.

[Judoh]

Actually the KinzoXNatsuhi idea was mostly a fan theory and that's why Erika suggested it because she represents the fans. It may be that it had some sort of root in Gohda's diary, but it was mostly based off the fact that Natsuhi couldn't have a child for a long time so they suspected she and Krauss never did. It was then theorized that Kinzo might be Jessica's real father.

There is also a theory that Jessica was adopted too, and I guess that was foreshadowed in episode 5... I wonder though was it ever stated what that baby's gender was?

Supposedly Beatrice "demoned it away", but I don't think we can trust Natsuhi about that.

[Knicknevin]

Originally Posted by Judoh

I wonder though was it ever stated what that baby's gender was?

It's kind of iffy. Natsuhi never refers to the baby as being a particular gender, but she does call the person on the phone 'The man from 19 years ago'. Maybe she never even knew. She certainly wanted nothing to do with it. It could be that when someone called claiming to be that baby, she just assumed it was male since the voice sounded male.

[Kitsu]

There is also a theory that Jessica was adopted too, and I guess that was foreshadowed in episode 5... I wonder though was it ever stated what that baby's gender was?

Well I don't know if you can call that foreshadowing the only thing that "Hints" it is that Erika's in therefore Jessica's old clothes lacked the eagle (and this that dress is definintely not casual it should be on it somehow I guess) also that the event of her birth wasn't in the diary but as her birth was a happy memory it shouldn't be in thre anyway. And i think this is about all and that's pretty weak. Also the foreshadowing is a bit late isn't it? Shouldn't be there some in the Question arks? Also Rudolph states that Natsuhi and Jesica look alike