To Aru Majutsu no Index II - Episode 2 Discussion / Poll

[OkamiNoKaze]

This was a great episode, lots of great new characters were introduced too. Touma really does have some kind of luck, Good or bad it's up to interpretation I suppose. In the op, did I see what looks to be an adult aged Mikoto? My theory on the nuns actions near the end, maybe all those repressed urges, give rise to bouts of sleep walking.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by OkamiNoKaze

In the op, did I see what looks to be an adult aged Mikoto?

Errr, no. That's not Mikoto. Can't say anything more without stating future spoilers.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

Well, most of the massive discussion went to the light novel section, so I hear. I try to avoid spoilers for most parts, but I've noted some heavy text every now and then.


Besides, with this being introductory as it is, with the establishment of the 'hero cast' villains and just a 'rough understanding of what is going on', there's really not that much to discuss. Unless we want to talk about how the history of actual Amakusa Christians establishment and the relevant links to how they hide their religion through Virgin Mary's statue being made to look like Guanyin-ma, or the author of the 'Book of the Law.'

I understand, but my slight beef was seeing as how there are a few people who finds it difficult to understand the terms and plot, I would think that they would like some questions answered...

But hey I am all for discussing history as well never know what you might learn

[Miraluka]

Comparison between ATX and TVK:



It seems the dark side is claiming for Touma's head already

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

Comparison between ATX and TVK:



It seems the dark side is claiming for Touma's head already

*cough* *hack*

Oi, JP censorship. First it was rabid steam, then it was radiant light beams, and now it's localized black holes. Or did the Hadron Collider blow a gasket?

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

*cough* *hack*

Oi, JP censorship. First it was rabid steam, then it was radiant light beams, and now it's localized black holes. Or did the Hadron Collider blow a gasket?

It was divide by zero!

This comparison is very popular, isn't?

[reaper with no name]

This was pretty much a straight light novel to anime transition. Nothing important was lost, and everything memorable was left in (yes, all this fanservice was in the light novels, so if you want to complain, go complain to Kamachi). All in all, it was exactly what anime adaptations should be.

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

Comparison between ATX and TVK:

Spoiler for ATX vs TVK:

It seems the dark side is claiming for Touma's head already

The TVK had a better color but the blacking is like a black hole eating up touma......

I wouldn't add to the conversation about fanserive..... just I wouldn't put oil on the fire.

I like the way things are in Index II though some of the parts where left behind and to finish all the first part. They put all together in the introduction episode.

[Yui Is My Wife]

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

Comparison between ATX and TVK:



It seems the dark side is claiming for Touma's head already

Oh God Bless ATX...

[tsunade666]

thank goodness atx first shows their show of Index II or else we might as well get the black hole as use for most subs.

[Francismeunier]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

thank goodness atx first shows their show of Index II or else we might as well get the black hole as use for most subs.

Or just wait like for Motto ToLove RU for a episode one more week. Wow I did not know about censor comparing. Interesting point.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

How is fanservice any more integrated in one scene than another? Naked girls are naked girls. The only exceptions would be like in scenes such as Gundam 00 S2's "quantum world" scenes. Index's fanservice is no less "integrated" than it's been since the beginning of the series.

Well that's where you are wrong. In the first season her fan service like in the bath was normal and then again with comedy it more well integrated.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

I have one general response to that: LOL. How is Index's clothes suddenly being blown off in episode one any more "natural" than anything here? Or Touma walking in on any naked/semi-naked female at any time? Or Aisa showing her chest when she pulls a nightstick out of her shirt?

There is comedy aspects within it and episode 1 was well not reveled when she got the cloth revealed even further the BDs did not even show it and I checked when they could have shown it.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

How does one do "well-shown" fanservice? From what I've seen, the fanservice whiners whine about it no matter how "well-shown" it is. And, I'm sorry, but how is any fanservice anything more than "sexual gratification?" I once again refer to Index's clothes suddenly being blown off, and a kazillion other scenes of fanservice.

It can be comedy or scene integrated ti make more sense than just the fapping values of it.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

So if you've seen all those series, how does the fanservice here rate any differently than in most series-es? I've seen more than that, and one fact is constant, undeniable, and unarguable: Fanservice is fanservice, no matter how it's shown or used.

Yes but some series use it as a means to the end of storyline itself while Index uses it more for comedy and nothing since I dont' see how fan service would go with magic/science.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Again, there is no such thing as fanservice that isn't for "sexual gratification," unless it's actually entirely to make a plot point or something, but at that point it wouldn't be fanservice anyway, it would be plot. And that kind of scene isn't exactly common, because there are rarely any situations where a clothed character can't get a plot point across as good as a naked character.

Well when you said fan service is fan service than if it's there even for plot you are not making sense logically of even if it would be plot then it would not be fan service when you clearly said it is only that. Yes, fan service can be sometimes part of the plot like the mind twisting means in Yosuga no Sora.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Index getting stripped stark naked by IB is nothing more than "sexual gratification."

No it's comedy at that point.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Aisa showing cleavage when she pulls a nightstick out of her shirt is nothing more than "sexual gratification."
Several female characters being shown throughout the series in varying states of undress is nothing more than "sexual gratification."
Etc, etc.

No Aisa doing is because Touma was looking there and they show it thus resulting in comedy.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

All I'm hearing is excuses to whine about fanservice, when fanservice has been here in Index since the beginning of the novels, and in no way is the taste in fanservice any different than it's been since episode one. If you don't want to see "sexual gratification" fanservice, you should've gotten the message in episode one that this series is not for you. Nor is almost any anime, for that matter.

To finish my point go see this article although some NSFW is there=>
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/1...stry-hasnt-it/
I will leave at that.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

It's been over 10 years since anime has turned towards being fanservice based. I'm shocked some people haven't gotten the message yet.

Oh I got the message does not mean I can't argue the meanings of it other than money making reason.
Guess Touma got the angry mob on him here=>

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by Francismeunier

Well that's where you are wrong. In the first season her fan service like in the bath was normal and then again with comedy it more well integrated.

Right. Because a naked girl isn't just a naked girl. The only reason you wold put in any scene of a naked girl is for "sexual gratification." Why couldn't they just show her lying on a bed fully clothed or something? It's all about the "sexual gratification" that you're talking about.

There is comedy aspects within it and episode 1 was well not reveled when she got the cloth revealed even further the BDs did not even show it and I checked when they could have shown it.

There are comedy aspects in the fanservice of this episode too. How is that any different from the fanservice back in S1 episode 1? As for what you're saying about the cloth, either you're not being clear what you're talking about (I do know you're taking about Index's robe though) or it's just that your grammar isn't conveying your thoughts properly. No offense; I see it a lot on forums.

It can be comedy or scene integrated ti make more sense than just the fapping values of it.

And yet you haven't even mentioned what makes such scenes any different from other scenes. You just say "they're for comedy value." Again, Index getting stripped naked is the same thing as Agnes and Index naked in this episode in that they provide "fapping value."
Althoguh I wouldn't use such a strong term; I'd draw the line at "sexual gratification."

Yes but some series use it as a means to the end of storyline itself while Index uses it more for comedy and nothing since I dont' see how fan service would go with magic/science.

"As a means to the end of storyline itself"? Honestly, I'm sorry, but either your wording or your grammar itself isn't communicating your ideas very well. I guess you're still talking about fanservice working for the plot? Which doesn't really work at all; you don't need fanservice to get plot points accross. So why would they use fanservice? For the "sexual gratification" you keep talking about.

Well when you said fan service is fan service than if it's there even for plot you are not making sense logically of even if it would be plot then it would not be fan service when you clearly said it is only that. Yes, fan service can be sometimes part of the plot like the mind twisting means in Yosuga no Sora.

You said my point was defunct (I think; your grammar is still confusing me >.> ), yet at the same time gave a good example of what I meant by "unless it's actually entirely to make a plot point or something, but at that point it wouldn't be fanservice anyway, it would be plot." I say only "good" because while they spin the fanservice for the plot, it wasn't required to have that much fanservice to make a plot point.

No it's comedy at that point.

It's comedy and sexual gratification. Index's clothes getting blown off is a random "WTF"; how is that any different than Agness crawling in Touma's sleeping bad in her sleep, in her underwear?

No Aisa doing is because Touma was looking there and they show it thus resulting in comedy.

Again, and sexual gratification. There is NO fanservice that isn't for sexual gratification. They can do comedy a million ways to Sunday without relying on fanservice. They do it all the time in anime; Full Metal Panic Fumoffu in particular pulled off humor extremely well, without having fanservice in every laugh. They use fanservice for the purpose of sexual gratification. As they have for over 10 years. That makes Aisa showing off cleavage no different from Agness in Touma's sleeping bag or Index and Agnes in the shower tent.

To finish my point go see this article although some NSFW is there=>
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/1...stry-hasnt-it/
I will leave at that.

....and you just illustrated my point. Again.
Anime has been fanservice-bound for over 10 years. This is nothing new. It was all through season 1 of Index, all through the novels, and it's here in season 2 just the same. So back to my point; why are you complaining if it's already been accepted? It's not like Index is some porn-loaded sexfest in comparison to other animes. So we have a few (tame, in comparison to many other animes) fanservice scenes in Index as usual, and suddenly the episode's mind is in the gutter?
Contradictively enough though, some of the commentors on your link there use Cowboy Bebop as an example of anime in its Golden Age without fanservice, when that show had plenty of big-breasted girls wearing skin-tight outfits and showing shower/bath scenes. And it even had "jiggle factor." *coughFayeValentinecough*

Oh I got the message does not mean I can't argue the meanings of it other than money making reason.

Of course fanservice is to make money.

High quality picture.

Great sound.

Great art.

Great plot.

Great story.

Etc.

All of this is ultimately intended for one thing; making money. Fanservice was just another step for the purpose of reeling in ratings and DVD sales. How is any of this new? These TV companies aren't charities offering DVDs and BDs for free.

[Keroko]

If I may add my own opinion on this.

Originally Posted by Francismeunier

Well that's where you are wrong. In the first season her fan service like in the bath was normal and then again with comedy it more well integrated.

Just because you didn't think it was funny doesn't mean it's not comedy. Someone else is very likely to have laughed during those scenes.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Lol, after finally watching the episode, I feel that I should explain abit more details to our first-timer-friends about the minor information that the episode left out, nothing spoilerish

--------------------------------------------------------

I doubt the anime could somehow depict this properly, but Sister Agnese Sanctis have a slight quirk to her character. When speaking to people of a foreign language, she prefers to use yet another foreign language that both of them aren't native to. For example, she's Italian while Stiyl and Index are British; rather than speaking in either language, she prefers to use Japanese to speak because it's a language neither of them are native to.

This is also somewhat responsible for her seemingly random scene where she tripped on thin air () and fell with Touma. Because Touma cannot understand any language other than Japanese, Agnese is forced to use Japanese to speak to a native Japanese, which makes her all nervous because she's afraid that her Japanese might sound strange to a native Japanese person

(Refer to the earlier scene with Laura when Stiyl called her out on her weird Japanese)


--------------------------------------------------------

Secondly, Index explain that the Amakusa uses a special magic that involves 47 gateways/portals that are almost untrackable to evade and hide from their enemies. What the anime didn't explain in painful detail was how this spell came about. The name of this spell base on the [Dai Nihon Enkai Yochi Zenzu] (大日本沿海輿地全図 maps of Japan's coastal area) that the famous Japanese surveyor Ino Tadataka created by using Idol Theory. The short explaination for Idol Theory goes like this; If you create a replica of a magic symbol, you would be able to harness the power of that magic symbol. For example, if one were to build a duplicate of the cross when Christ was crucified, and put it on the roof of a church, they’ll get some Holy power from those actual Cross wielders. Although the power of the duplicate is not even 0.000000000001% of the original.

However, the opposite also works the same, it is through the replica, one can also affect the original, but this is still a Hypothesis and isn't 100% confirmed. Ino Tadataka used this ‘Idol Theory’ in the opposite manner. He understood that the real one and the idol will affect each other, so he plotted 47 ‘portals’ on the Dai Nihon Enkai Yochi Zenzu that originally didn’t exist on the Japanese islands. Thus, these entrances that allow people to come and go as they please appeared in modern Japan. For those wondering if that map can be used as an IWIN button, the condition for being an idol is being a ‘duplicate’; as long as there’s even a slight difference in the levels of magic used between the idol and the original, the idol will lose its purpose. So, the ‘Idol Theory’ can’t be used to solve everything. Once the original ‘image’ is changed, the theory cannot be used. Index explained that There was a group of magicians in the past who tried to use a stone sculpture that looked like the ‘Son of God’ to control the ‘Son of God’ in the heavens, but it ended up in failure.


--------------------------------------------------------

And lastly... Maybe for a surprise dramatic effects later on... But Stiyl said that the author of the [Book of the Law] is a man named EDWARD ALEXANDER...

[orion]

Originally Posted by Keroko

If I may add my own opinion on this.
Just because you didn't think it was funny doesn't mean it's not comedy. Someone else is very likely to have laughed during those scenes.

Totally agree with what Keroko said. I didn't find some of the stuff funny in Panty and Stocking ep. 3 but others did. Even Garterbelt (a member of the clergy) had a few "revealing" details about his sexual tastes known and a running joke about stick size.

Styl is the man. Still in love with Index even though she can't remember him.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Secondly, Index explain that the Amakusa uses a special magic that involves 47 gateways/portals that are almost untrackable to evade and hide from their enemies. What the anime didn't explain in detail was how this spell came about. The name of this spell base on the [Dai Nihon Enkai Yochi Zenzu] (大日本沿海輿地全図 maps of Japan's coastal area) that the famous Japanese surveyor Ino Tadataka created by using Idol Theory. The short explaination for Idol Theory goes like this; If you create a replica of a magic symbol, they would be able to harness the power of that magic symbol. For example, if one were to build a duplicate of the cross when Christ was crucified, and put it on the roof of a church, they’ll get some Holy power from those actual Cross wielders. Although the power of the duplicate is not even 0.000000000001% of the original.

However, the opposite also works the same, it is through the replica, one can also affect the original, but this is still a Hypothesis and isn't 100% confirmed. Ino Tadataka used this ‘Idol Theory’ in the opposite manner. He understood that the real one and the idol will affect each other, so he plotted 47 ‘portals’ on the Dai Nihon Enkai Yochi Zenzu that originally didn’t exist on the Japanese islands. Thus, these entrances that allow people to come and go as they please appeared in modern Japan. For those wondering if that map can be used as an IWIN button, the condition for being an idol is being a ‘duplicate’; as long as there’s even a slight difference in the levels of magic used between the idol and the original, the idol will lose its purpose. So, the ‘Idol Theory’ can’t be used to solve everything. Once the original ‘image’ is changed, the theory cannot be used. Index explained that There was a group of magicians in the past who tried to use a stone sculpture that looked like the ‘Son of God’ to control the ‘Son of God’ in the heavens, but it ended up in failure.

That... while very interesting info, actually made things more confusing. Which is probably why they left it out, in a 24 minute episode that was already quite talkative, there's no dire need to go beyond 'there's 47 points where people can teleport at will if the stars are right, we must stop them before they can.'

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Keroko

That... while very interesting info, actually made things more confusing. Which is probably why they left it out, in a 24 minute episode that was already quite talkative, there's no dire need to go beyond 'there's 47 points where people can teleport at will if the stars are right, we must stop them before they can.'

Oh I agree, that's one of the good points of this episode. Sadly, the bad points for me is that they removed or shorten several memorable quotes

But you know... Just in case certain individuals might be interested about these things

[Keroko]

*twiddles thumbs innocently* I have absolutely no idea who you're talking about.

[Francismeunier]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Right. Because a naked girl isn't just a naked girl. The only reason you wold put in any scene of a naked girl is for "sexual gratification." Why couldn't they just show her lying on a bed fully clothed or something? It's all about the "sexual gratification" that you're talking about.

But they do put them sometimes or use techniques not to have the naked girl. Also sexual gratification is not to all when they see the situation and to me season 1 stuff so far is not a sexual gratification but I see the scenes more as comedy and in this one they totally in this episode more to me sexual gratification especially the Touma falling near the panties of that nun. There was nowhere near anything like that in season 1.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

There are comedy aspects in the fanservice of this episode too. How is that any different from the fanservice back in S1 episode 1? As for what you're saying about the cloth, either you're not being clear what you're talking about (I do know you're taking about Index's robe though) or it's just that your grammar isn't conveying your thoughts properly. No offense; I see it a lot on forums.

Yeah my grammar is bad I live in a French environment. Yeah I recognize the comedy thing of the tent but did they have to show in detail Index's body...sounds to me like sexual gratification.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

And yet you haven't even mentioned what makes such scenes any different from other scenes. You just say "they're for comedy value." Again, Index getting stripped naked is the same thing as Agnes and Index naked in this episode in that they provide "fapping value."
Althoguh I wouldn't use such a strong term; I'd draw the line at "sexual gratification."

Well Index never strips naked.....she was taking a shower so that's natural nor it is natural at all to have Touma fall on purpose in front of the nuns panties in the LN there is one scene like that too but since it's not animated I guess it's not sexual gratification as much as it was in this episode.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

"As a means to the end of storyline itself"? Honestly, I'm sorry, but either your wording or your grammar itself isn't communicating your ideas very well. I guess you're still talking about fanservice working for the plot? Which doesn't really work at all; you don't need fanservice to get plot points accross. So why would they use fanservice? For the "sexual gratification" you keep talking about.

You mentioned the plot point and in some cases fan service in the case of Incest stuff like Kiss x Sis was necessary to have some plot move around like the charm thing I would say.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

You said my point was defunct (I think; your grammar is still confusing me >.> ), yet at the same time gave a good example of what I meant by "unless it's actually entirely to make a plot point or something, but at that point it wouldn't be fanservice anyway, it would be plot." I say only "good" because while they spin the fanservice for the plot, it wasn't required to have that much fanservice to make a plot point.

Depends on the anime, directors and other elements but there is always a way around the sexual gratification fan service to make it different.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

It's comedy and sexual gratification. Index's clothes getting blown off is a random "WTF"; how is that any different than Agness crawling in Touma's sleeping bad in her sleep, in her underwear?

It's not different in this case..both are comedy just that crawling looked like sexual gratification because the panties of the nun looked to be rubbing on Touma's crotch. Get it?

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Again, and sexual gratification. There is NO fanservice that isn't for sexual gratification. They can do comedy a million ways to Sunday without relying on fanservice. They do it all the time in anime; Full Metal Panic Fumoffu in particular pulled off humor extremely well, without having fanservice in every laugh. They use fanservice for the purpose of sexual gratification. As they have for over 10 years. That makes Aisa showing off cleavage no different from Agness in Touma's sleeping bag or Index and Agnes in the shower tent.

All I can say is that in City Hunter fan service was never for sexual gratification but comedy yet it was there.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

....and you just illustrated my point. Again.
Anime has been fanservice-bound for over 10 years. This is nothing new. It was all through season 1 of Index, all through the novels, and it's here in season 2 just the same. So back to my point; why are you complaining if it's already been accepted? It's not like Index is some porn-loaded sexfest in comparison to other animes. So we have a few (tame, in comparison to many other animes) fanservice scenes in Index as usual, and suddenly the episode's mind is in the gutter?

I guess it must be the religion inclusions and believe me it was more raging with Seikon no Qwaser but I like to finish things I watch.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Contradictively enough though, some of the commentors on your link there use Cowboy Bebop as an example of anime in its Golden Age without fanservice, when that show had plenty of big-breasted girls wearing skin-tight outfits and showing shower/bath scenes. And it even had "jiggle factor." *coughFayeValentinecough*

Really? Well I did not see that anime but I am sure it had some action to go along that.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Of course fanservice is to make money.

Well yeah it is so I agree with that already.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

High quality picture.

Great sound.

Great art.

Great plot.

Great story.

Etc.

Now that are better terms to make animes with that can capture the audiences see the problem is all of them have fan service more than anything else...you see even other TV stations censor this anime.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

All of this is ultimately intended for one thing; making money. Fanservice was just another step for the purpose of reeling in ratings and DVD sales. How is any of this new? These TV companies aren't charities offering DVDs and BDs for free.

Oh but you see it was more for DVD and BD sales.....only TV station rating it all is AT-X and now if another TV station like AT-X came then it would be a better competition....there is also the Internet broadcast like ones of Seikon no Qwaser that change things around.

[Master Assassin]

Originally Posted by Francismeunier

Now that are better terms to make animes with that can capture the audiences see the problem is all of them have fan service more than anything else...you see even other TV stations censor this anime.

Oh but you see it was more for DVD and BD sales.....only TV station rating it all is AT-X and now if another TV station like AT-X came then it would be a better competition....there is also the Internet broadcast like ones of Seikon no Qwaser that change things around.

Uh.

Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but I'm thinking of "fanservice" this way.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Of course fanservice is to make money.

High quality picture. - Is fanservice.

Great sound. - Is fanservice.

Great art. - Fanservice too.

Great plot. - Yet another fanservice.

Great story. - Another one.

To add.

Good characters making use of good characterization. - Fanservice.

Good action - Fanservice.

HELL YEAH GORE! - Fanservice.

OMG what the hell a miniskirt nun getting a boy on her crotch - FanDISService.

I can't think of any other definition towards fanservice. A fanservice is a fanservice if it's agreed upon that viewers like it. I'm not one for explanation of why do I think so, but... well, I don't think I can be comfortable with how people call and define "fanservice" as it is now.