[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[ameskitty]

It's worth mentioning that boiler explosions caused by pressure are known for being particularly destructive, with some larger factory explosions known to have caused major geographical depressions on failure. Now I'm not sure if the boiler system on Rokkenjima is that big, but, well, maybe it doesn't have to be to kill everybody in the mansion/in its close vicinity. Here's a snippet from the State of Texas licensing agency on boilers (the most reliable source I could find on Google):

Another type of boiler accident and the most lethal is excessive pressure. These accidents occur when the boiler can no longer contain the excessive pressure allowed to build in the boiler. Excessive pressure accidents, even in small boilers, have been known to completely destroy a building.

Not to mention that a pressure explosion would require no explosives - just a rig that somehow shuts off an important valve.

[rogerpepitone]

About volcanos: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_er...unt_St._Helens started giving off steam several months before it blew; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lassen_Peak started giving off steam a year before it blew.

Unfortunately, I couldn't get find any information about how far in advance / whether there was advance warning with the Torishima eruption.

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by Renall

GOLD is the author's authority. It cannot be challenged unless it contradicts established facts. As long as there is ambiguity as to what could have happened, the author is permitted to give their own opinion of what really did happen.

Battler isn't the author of Umineko so how can he have the author's authority?

This is just my opinion, but I think the gold truth is the truth for what is observed on Rokkenjima. I think that while the red truth is just simply the truth (meaning you don't need evidence to use it) The gold truth is simply the truth with evidence and since the gold truth uses evidence it can be harder to use, and it can also be inferior to the red sometimes. The reason it can be inferior ( I think) is because, given the right circumstances,saying something is true without evidence (the red) can sometimes be an advantage, but to say something that is true with evidence (the gold) can be both an advantage and a disadvantage to a red proclamation. That's my theory anyway.

[TDS]

Originally Posted by the_rogue

Not to mention that a pressure explosion would require no explosives - just a rig that somehow shuts off an important valve.

Which explains why they could detect Kinzo's burnt corpse by the odor, in the first game. An important valve through which smoke flows is blocked or shut, the smell couldn't go out that way because of this and instead flowed into the rest of the mansion.

[Judoh]

I'm just curious Renall what made you think that the gold truth was the author's authority? I mean if anyone would want to have the right to give an opinion on the story I think it would be the reader rather than the author. I'm just wondering what thoughts led you to come up with that theory.

[Renall]

Not the author of Umineko, but the author of an episode. The Game Master authority.

Imagine you have a game of Dungeons & Dragons. You're the Dungeon Master and you're going to run the game. But you get sick one day and you can't make it. But your brother has all your notes, maps, etc. and knows how you think. So he shows up and runs the game in your place. He has the authority to act in your place because he understands how you'd do things. He didn't come up with all of the information, but understands enough to tell your story.

That's sort of the idea.

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by Renall

Not the author of Umineko, but the author of an episode. The Game Master authority.

Imagine you have a game of Dungeons & Dragons. You're the Dungeon Master and you're going to run the game. But you get sick one day and you can't make it. But your brother has all your notes, maps, etc. and knows how you think. So he shows up and runs the game in your place. He has the authority to act in your place because he understands how you'd do things. He didn't come up with all of the information, but understands enough to tell your story.

That's sort of the idea.

Oh well then if I look at it like that than it doesn't contradict my theory at all actually. I thought it was pretty obvious that the only reason Battler could use the gold truth was because he became game master. I've played Dungeons & Dragons before too so I understand the idea. I just thought calling it the authors authority was kind of vague.

[Smeckledorf]

Yea, I don't like it being called author's authority either. Game Master's Authority makes much more sense.
Anyways, I think Kinzo is still alive and we have all be swindled. Think about Higurashi, you can't remember a burnt mastermind in that series can you... oh wait... I think through a series of red truth that we have misinterpreted, Kinzo is not actually dead. Even Battler uses red to say, he could present a corpse which could POSSIBLY be identified as Kinzo's. This to me says that as people have thought in episodes 1 and 2 that Kinzo is not actually dead. Just as there are two Battler's one can make the case that there are two Kinzo's. Battler's blue truth in episode 4 is a prime example of this.
In episode 5, Battler could not present a certain truth to counter Erika's so I believe that the red pointing to Kinzo being dead and the no evident proof of Kinzo's hand in the murders makes it so Battler could not present this truth in the trial.
I know you guys will have a problem with the line .........Ushiromiya Kinzo is already dead at the starting time for all games! I acknowledge that this line is problematic but if someone inherits the Ushiromiyia headship then I think it is only natural that they adopt the Ushiromiyia name.
Believe what you want but think about it with red truth debates aside, don't you think it makes perfect sense for Kinzo to be alive? I think the proposed story line from Beatrice in episode 4 was the closest to the truth. Every game is based around some sort of test made by Kinzo.

[Kylon99]

Originally Posted by Smeckledorf

Yea, I don't like it being called author's authority either. Game Master's Authority makes much more sense.

I think Renall may have been quoting a message of mine from earlier about a bunch of stuff; amongst them was a theory about the color text and how it related to the metaworld...

After EP6... um...

Spoiler for EP6 Spoilers:

I was saying that several things matched up like this:

Lambda - Magic of Certainty - allows her to kill anyone with a absolute result
Bernkastel - Magic of Miracles - "magic of miracles" to reset a bad situation, as long as the chance of it becoming favourable is not zero.
Beatrice - Endless Magic, which grants witches the power to break and repair anything infinitely, including human lives.

Red Text - Always the truth.
Blue Text - Allows the detective to put forth theories again and again which becomes truth unless challenged.
Gold Text - ???

I think any theory on the Gold text must fit in with this pattern. So how does the Gold text seem similar to Endless magic the way the other texts do?

When Bernkastel examined Beatrice's board, she admitted that it had the power to trap her due to its ability to change endlessly like a shifting maze. Her power allows her to try again and again to figure out a way out of a maze, but not one that changes each time.

So I think the Gold Text must have something to do with Endless Shifting of the truth. And so I believed that it must have to do with the truth about each different episode because the story keeps changing.

So... my theory is:
Gold Text - The truth about this particular game because the game master set it up this way. This truth can be arrived at because the game master and anyone else who knows will know the way all the pieces move and the truth behind the whole game board.


However EP6 showed us another higher meta layer, namely the Mystery Unknown Writer That Has Beatrice's Handwriting and Hachijou Tooya. In this level, no one speaks 'red,' 'blue' or 'gold' text.. however the concepts haven't disappeared, I believe.

At this level you have 3 things (of which are my made up names):

Core Truth - The truth about the Ushiromiyas, Rokkenjima and the whole situation prior to Oct 5th. For example, "Kinzo is dead" belongs here. Or things about Kyrie's miscarriage which was text in white. This is the stuff that Hachijou said you needed to know in order to write.

Author's Speculation - What may have happened, in terms of the author's speculation about the real events of Rokkenjima or even false theories about the current game. And sometimes these theories could be for amusement. "Small bombs." This doesn't necessarily mean blue text, it could be white text.

Author's Authority - What the author decided to write as 'this episode's truth' but may not apply to other episodes. For example, "This is Kinzo's body." Or text about where the detective went in each game, etc.

In this last case, it was Battler who uttered the words but Hachijou who wrote them down at her meta-level. Because Cool-Cape-Crusader-Battler is one of her characters. So, in essence I think the gold text is both, really.

It does seem cheap though for Hachijou to write it that way... but then if you think about it she's writing what seems to be a fanfic. A self-insertion fanfic no less at the end of EP6, with Featherine.

Do we still have to tag EP6 spoilers? or is this thread considered EP6 safe now?

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by Smeckledorf

Yea, I don't like it being called author's authority
Anyways, I think Kinzo is still alive and we have all be swindled. Think about Higurashi, you can't remember a burnt mastermind in that series can you... oh wait... I think through a series of red truth that we have misinterpreted, Kinzo is not actually dead. Even Battler uses red to say, he could present a corpse which could POSSIBLY be identified as Kinzo's. This to me says that as people have thought in episodes 1 and 2 that Kinzo is not actually dead. Just as there are two Battler's one can make the case that there are two Kinzo's. Battler's blue truth in episode 4 is a prime example of this.
I

He didn't say that it could "possibly "be Kinzo's corpse this was what he said with the gold truth

I can Guarantee that this corpse is Ushiromiya Kinzo's!

There is no "possibly" about it. Kinzo is a corpse at the start of all games and Battler confirmed that Ushiromiya Kinzo's corpse exists on the island of Rokkenjima with the gold truth. There is no way that Battler could guarantee that this corpse is Kinzo's unless he is already dead and he is on the island. It's a hempel's raven... by the law of implication if Battler can guarantee that this is Ushiromiya Kinzo's corpse than the law of implication says that that corpse must also exist on the island of Rokkenjima.

People die before they are declared dead that's just common sense.

[luckyssol]

Spoiler for ?:

伊(い=1)藤(とう=10)幾(いく=19)九(きゅう=9) 郎(ろ=6)〇(まる=0)五(ご=5)七(なな=7)六(ろく=6)

１１０億１９９６万５７６

１８の８乗

十八のハチジョウ

八城十八

８上１８

26

0+7+1+5+1+1+2+9

07151129

0715＝戦人の誕生日
1129＝???

07151129

0+7+1+5+1+1+2+9

26
右代宮＝後ろ38

3826

み　よう　に　む

みょうにむ

明日夢

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Ssol

Spoiler for ?:

伊(い=1)藤(とう=10)幾(いく=19)九(きゅう=9) 郎(ろ=6)〇(まる=0)五(ご=5)七(なな=7)六(ろく=6)

１１０億１９９６万５７６

１８の８乗

十八のハチジョウ

八城十八

８上１８

26

0+7+1+5+1+1+2+9

07151129

0715＝戦人の誕生日
1129＝???

07151129

0+7+1+5+1+1+2+9

26
右代宮＝後ろ38

3826

み　よう　に　む

みょうにむ

明日夢

That's not very convincing

[Tjfarmer]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

That's not very convincing

Mind telling us whats going on?

[ameskitty]

Looks like a lot of random number-to-Japanese character-to-number...etc. shifting. Too complicated to really be convincing, I agree. Numbers can be read in all kinds of ways.

[LyricalAura]

Originally Posted by Tjfarmer

Mind telling us whats going on?

Looks like someone tried to figure out 07151129 using similar logic to how Ange worked out Tohya's name from her internet handle. I'm not particularly convinced by it either, but:

Tohya's handle: 伊藤幾九郎〇五七六 = i-tou-iku-kyuu-ro-maru-go-nana-roku

Converting the sounds to numbers, you get:
1,101,960,576 = 18 ^ 8
(eighth) (power of) (eighteen)
(hachi)(jou)(touya)
Hachijou Tohya

Then, the mystery number 07151129. 0715 is Battler's birthday, but the meaning of the other half is unknown. So instead:
0 + 7 + 1 + 5 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 9 = 26
Ushiromiya = (ushiro)(mi)(ya) = (ushiro)(3)(8) = behind 38
26 behind 38 = 3826 = (mi)(you)(ni)(mu) = myou-ni-mu

Converting back into kanji with those readings, you can get: 明日夢 = Asumu

[ijriims]

Originally Posted by LyricalAura

Then, the mystery number 07151129. 0715 is Battler's birthday, but the meaning of the other half is unknown. So instead:
0 + 7 + 1 + 5 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 9 = 26
Ushiromiya = (ushiro)(mi)(ya) = (ushiro)(3)(8) = behind 38
26 behind 38 = 3826 = (mi)(you)(ni)(mu) = myou-ni-mu

Converting back into kanji with those readings, you can get: 明日夢 = Asumu

The part 18 ^ 8 is from EP6 and deduced by Ange, so it is already official.

The 07151129 part...

"Ushiromiya Asumu" -> "behind-38 3826" -> "26" -> the addition of 07151129 is 26, however the addition to 26 can have a lot of combination (e.g.07152018, 07156511, etc). Why must it be 07151129?

[luckyssol]

Originally Posted by ijriims

Why it must be 07151129?

That's what I was trying to figure out.

I've been trying to come up with an Asumu theory but I got stuck at that part. I apologize for the ambiguity.

------------

I've read your Kyrie theory that 1129 may be in reference to the time of the miscarrage/stillbirth (Correct me if I'm wrong ) but was there any clue that would lead to that reasoning?

[Kurizu204]

not gonna lie asumu culprit would be AMAZING! But there is probably no way. unless maybe she had epic will stating kill everyone.

[ijriims]

Originally Posted by Ssol

I've read your Kyrie theory that 1129 may be in reference to the time of the miscarrage/stillbirth (Correct me if I'm wrong ) but was there any clue that would lead to that reasoning?

If you have read the recent post in EP6 thread then you would know I would not talk about it anymore until EP7.

But at least I can say that because the episode gives us hint that the first part of 0715 is Battler's date of birth, so the meaning behind it should be related to Battler's birthday. And we knew that Kyrie gave birth to her child on the same day with Asumu and she thought she was having a stillborn (miscarriage in EP3, but it was almost certain to be mistake from Ryukishi07).

It is by connecting points of fact that I said the 1129 part is the time of "death" of Kyrie's baby, which was one of the most significant pieces of memory of hers such that she used the time of death to be the password of the bank account.

Not many obvious clues pointing to this idea indeed.

[luckyssol]

http://freetexthost.com/oce2hgwlr2