Why is Gundam Seed Destiny so controversial?

[Owaranai Destiny]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Call me whatever you like, but to suggest GSD failed because Kira showed up is clearly illogical to me.

Try this, then; would GSD be a better show if Kira was omitted? Would all the bad things somehow cease to be, even though they are not linked to his re-appearance?

And to be honest, my comments were not directed specifically at you, but at the many others who clearly claim it was Kira who single handedly ruined GSD.

No one knows. would GSD be a worse show if Kira was omitted? I could throw that question back, and I don't think either of use could have answered that totally. You did say the way his appearance was handled, and I stopped at that as well. Just so to tell you, many people felt that he could or even should reappear, just not play that important of a role.

No offense intended, and no harm done. I just hate being musunderstood by people. If I offended you, simple: I apologize. Fair enough?

[1.0.7.]

i totally agree with VCV..
kira didn't druin GSD, it was the way he was integrated to it.. that and a whole list of other things.
but for me, the worst thing was, as WD made in a thread some time ago before the crash, that they actually decided to extend the entire thing into a 50 episode series..which wasn't the initial plan.

[Sety]

i totally agree with VCV..
kira didn't druin GSD, it was the way he was integrated to it..

Its technically the same thing as Kira ruining GSD......the fact he was brought in AND badly integrated which is what happened.

Personally I actually enjoyed his appearance a rather cool re-appearance.....it wasn't till around the Cagalli's wedding ep I actually realized that Kira was going to make the show suck by stealing the spotlight and doing nothing and killing all the new cast.

[Schneizel]

Well, if you want personal opinions...

Why Kira (and Lacus) ruin(s) the series for me:
To me, Kira and Lacus don't represent humanity, but they represent this unrealistic, un-attainable vision "higher deity" or whatever... Kira's power is un-attainable, and Lacus's influence is unrealistic. And then they have their followers, who can basically be summed up as the rest of the Three Ships Alliance. It is their ideals that dominate the series (and I say this because they come out on top in both SEED and GSD), as well as the people of the Cosmic Era (refer to Final Plus and Lacus's influence).

Because their ideals are what dominates the outcome of the series, they are the black and white "right."

I hate the idea/concept of a black and white ideal of right, especially in a war anime. How... amateur. o_O

You can argue that the Earth Alliance and ZAFT was supposed to be the Black and White parts, and the Archangel was the gray, but I think it was made obvious that both the EA and ZAFT both were "wrong" thus there is a black and white right of EA/ZAFT v. TSA.

Because of Kira's un-attainable power by him conveniently being the ultimate coordinator, we basically have ueber-battle god dude thing.

And since Lacus has unrealistic influential skills, we have a voice that people will listen to without fail. This has been proven by Meer's effectiveness and Lacus's words in Final Plus.

And since Lacus is a foil character of Fllay, situations just have to be under her control and things must turn out in her ultimate favor because Fllay failed in those areas.

I hate characters like those. To me, they are walking plot devices to patch up holes. And having two of them as the main character just really ruins the environment of the series for me because you know it'll turn out with them on top, and well, hey it did. ~_~

What I got from their characters was, Kira and Lacus's way or the highway, kids.

And yes, that "ruins" the series for me. As an aspiring writer, I will make sure to keep them in mind when I want a reminder of what not to do with characters...

[Crusader]

kodachrome, i think i agree with every single thing you just said down to the letter even the wording.

[neodrag38]

kodachrome, I couldn't agree even more than I actually do.

[Rever129]

Great post, kodachrome; I agree with every bit of it.

[dom33]

kodachrome i agree with you fully.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by dreamless

the makers getting too involved in doing a propaganda for their own extremist political views instead of making an enjoyable series. And random writings that they even forget what they have written before and have to rely on the side story manga to patch up the holes (and I still yet to see anything to patch up the "it's all just an experiment" line from Neo at the start of the series)

But then apparently it can get BANDAI enough money for a third series.

How bout Djbril telling Neo, "Afterall you were created for this [greater]purpose..." What purpose? Why the hell did they even save him in the first place?? And before you say because he can control MA extremities well remember he only use EXASS at the beginning...And didn't use another MA all series and sucked in all MS's (except//.hackatsuki)...Where are the Neo clones they needed to pilot more MA's?? Ah, dammit I think I just gave them an idea for SEED 3

Originally Posted by kodachrome

And since Lacus is a foil character of Fllay, situations just have to be under her control and things must turn out in her ultimate favor because Fllay failed in those areas.

And yes, that "ruins" the series for me. As an aspiring writer, I will make sure to keep them in mind when I want a reminder of what not to do with characters...

Not bad at all...I too am a writer and only stories told for developing toddlers would i ever make characters act this way...

[Shinji103]

kodachrome, that was an awesome post.

[shaolo]

[QUOTE=wingdarkness]How bout Djbril telling Neo, "Afterall you were created for this [greater]purpose..." What purpose? Why the hell did they even save him in the first place?? And before you say because he can control MA extremities well remember he only use EXASS at the beginning...And didn't use another MA all series and sucked in all MS's (except//.hackatsuki)...Where are the Neo clones they needed to pilot more MA's?? Ah, dammit I think I just gave them an idea for SEED 3

Even that idea could been used to explain how Neo and Mwu are connected in GSD.

[cajunman380]

time for my input

@kadomechan. I agree completely with your post. you just stated half my reasons for why i consider destiny to be a failure.

Othe rthings that bithered me greatly were the fact that i still cant understand what the exact theme of this series was. the popular characters win? and i also still dont understand what the writers intentions were in making shinn the main character. To this end i still dont understand what exactly made him the main character other than the advertisements ( a lot of false ones at that)

I get the feeling watching this series that the writers expect the audience to be a bunch of brainless idiots who can only point at the screen and say. "ooh gundam must buy". seriously those kinds of writers have no creativity and need to be fired.

The most important thing that i felt was missing from gsd that was present in GS was DRAMA and INTERACTION. drama in which important people DIE adn others are shown suffering. instead we see unexplained emotions, wierd behavior and instant forgiveness even though it makes no rational sense. kira back in gs even though had freedom and his new god logic still got his ass kicked from thime to time and he still got emotionally scarred. here i get the impression from how the writers portray him in the series that hes the type to belittle people as in if your not with me then get out of my way or ill beat you. those type of characters i hate the most. but i agree with wha tsomeone else said. it snot kira its how he was brought in and portrayed tha tmade me hat e him. which brings me to my final point.....

WHERE THE HELL WAS THE CHARCTER INTERACTION. the only time shinn and cagali spoke was early on and that was drama. the AA crew never even interacted with the minerva crew. hell not even the EA druggies had much interaction. its like they had all these characters and they didnt know what to do with them. imagine if kira was captured by the minerva in 34 instead of being rescued by the AA. how much of a difference in story would it hav emade and for me it would have made the event sin final plus more believable.

[Crusader]

Cajuman i just thought abotu what you posted abotu a bunch of characters.

There is reaction, but it is all pointless... Heck the only improtant Convos come from Neo/Djbril, and anything gilbert says or does in teh latter half of the show. the druggies weren't around so much,and that was only to fight. The dom pilots don't get too much interaction either... i mean, i would have rather seen the doms one the EA side to flesh out thier pilot ranks.

[dreamless]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Saying Squall of FF8 suck is one thing. Saying FF8 suck because of Squall is another.

Most named characters in GSD suck, period. But to claim Kira was the main reason the series failed is entirely groundless. You don't have to like him, but accusations should be just and fair.

Squall is indeed part of the reason why FF8 suck. And FFX-2's Yuna is part of the reason why FFX-2 suck. Kira, Squall, Yuna, they are all fictional characters, to say they have nothing to do with how the writers present them is ridiculous. They don't exist independently of the writers, they are non-existence without the writers present them with their writings.

[Ichimaru]

Now all we need is demongod to agree with us

Anyway the introduction of AA crew stuff it up, shouldve just let it stayed the way it started with only shinn n athrun has the main protagonists. Shinn had no character buildup, rey had a more buildup then hiim imo.

[tetsuo69]

people are saying kira is to be blame for GSD? but by the time kira had an Ep almost all to himself. GSD was already crappy.. when was that? Ep 13-14 if i remember right after that it took up till Ep 23 for him to come back.. i remember back around that time.. people were pissed how things were.. how easy Zaft would win the battles against EA..now i ask myself.. isnt that one of things kira haters hate. is him being untouchable/godly ? if thats so..what would shinn be? gods of gods?.taking on 30 MS + the new duggies + Neo and coming back unharm .. after i saw that + the power ranger transformation(impulse) i knew it would be some kind of super robot show and that was b4 kira show up in Ep 23 when he owned almost everyone in the battlefield.... i almost forgot to name mass production of huge black grunts =Destroy. who at a time would seem untouchable

now going back to the first 12 Ep..
i can say the first two episodes were good for a start.. not great cuz it was already the same crap from Seed.. stealing the mobile suits crap ..i could see who was the main character for the first two Ep..and gave the new main character a try.. but the dude wouldnt Stop bitching! well getting back. after the first two Ep cagalli + Asuran started taking main role rather than shinn + the new crew.. by that time i was going around the gundam forums asking if shinn was really the main character or was it asuran.. who seem to be it.. well i wouldnt blame Fukuda.. all shinn would do would be b!tch and no character development was giving to him.. not untill Ep 21 was it? that time he and stellar were on that Cave? cough asuran/cagalli cough.. GSD was cearly a Remake of GS + U.C.. there was seiously no hope for originality.. specialy for those who want originality when thats almost impossible now on days.. i just think is stupid to blame lacus/kira for the huge disappointment GSD was to some people.. who i find funny ..that even thought they hate almost every GSD Ep they would still See the extra Ep 12/25/05

i dont think we should blame the characters or even Fukuda for the disappointment GSD was ..no one is perfect

[shaolo]

i dont think we should blame the characters or even Fukuda for the disappointment GSD was ..no one is perfect[/QUOTE]


Yes no one is perfect ,but Fukuda mess up GSD and some of the characters was used as tool and some were cannon fodder.

[Eidolon Sniper]

Um...

I'm going to post this on a reply I made back in the old days of Animesuki before the hackers came out to play...it's about the "Why Shinn was nerfed as a main character?" thread...it was a rant that would say all I have to say about GSD (its failures) and then some. Oh, the quotes are by vio555...where art thou vio? (the link he indicated would probably be lost by now...)

Spoiler:

Fukuda didn't do anything about Shinn as the owner of the "series Gundam" aspect too much because he thought it would ruin his Kira the GOD's chances of being completely immortal at the top character ranking list and because he was scared of his wife.

Seriously...

I think Gundam was supposed to be fun, with the protagonist doing all good things that should not go beyond the principles that "peace should save the entire world". We get that message from every Gundam show time and again; but how the directors and how the writers managed to convey that message across without much damage to the "series Gundam" concept and its pilot/main hero/protagonist was a feat in itself; the story should still be Gundam but not at the same time. It has been retold time and again, from different views by different directors and writers, but still they did not lose that "series Gundam" concept + its pilot/main hero/protagonist with a variety of plots, subplots, subsubplots that were still coherent and made up the whole of the story in a way that these plots do not contribute too much jargon or confusion to the entirety of the story and main plot altogether.

Then out pops Fukuda.

The UC for the new generation concept was OK, its many allusions to the original MSG are but a bit forgivable in some aspects, but the way they handled it was a bit . It was the first time that it was not a "series Gundam" driven series (as it alludes to the still debatable SEED factor possessed by its then 4 main characters), and a series not driven by a war not of bloodlust proportions but rather a war of ideals. It is OK, but the plots, subplots, subsubplots that were to make up its entirety didn't contribute to the coherence of the entire story at all, riddled as it was with Fukuda's plot holes and his intention that this was supposed to mirror the Iraq/US conflict happening in earnest around that time, or any random "terrorist" faction VS the US for that matter. Too many good ideas but were wasted because of shoddy writing, poor direction, and Fukuda's ability to make the impossible, possible left a bad taste in some of the older UC fans in general, and even if it found favor in the character polls ( I knew I had read somewhere that SEED has the highest amount of bishounen in any given anime around that time that may have been also responsible for getting girls into liking a guy's thing such and such) it was still...Fukuda. So this led to the Tomino VS Fukuda debate, and the older fans lambasted him for messing up with a classic, blah blah blah, attested by some of the earlier threads about SEED in this forum and seed-forum, and even some Japanese forums. The characters were eye candy but that was what they all were; eye candy and not much on the character development, only cut and paste plot devices here and there to make their characters seem "believable". The only character that the writers felt was very real and very well fleshed out was Fllay Allster, the others were like just background characters to her (which led to some of the Fllay fanboys suspicion that she was killed off because she was taking too much of SEED screen time and was hurting Lacus' chances with Kira a great big deal [one of Fukuda and his wife's favorite characters]...but as this is entirely off-topic and should be relegated somewhere else, I would not expound on it) and we have Fllay bashers to show up for it; too many rehashed Gundams (how Gundam A is so much so like Gundam B) and allusions to MSG's famous ships and what have you that sent many of the older UC fans screaming "where the hell is ORIGINALITY?!" and a lot more, besides. And the ending that has SEQUEL screaming all over it were just a tad bit too much...

And so leaves us with GSD. It returned to the "series Gundam" concept (as the pilot/main hero/protagonist pilots the "series Gundam" in the latter part of the series) and introduces Shinn Asuka, that aforementioned "main character" that was not at all like the main characters of old, who have to go against some "set" standard as to become the Gundam main hero (specifically speaking, how he should take to the "peace should save the entire world" concept). But due to some miraculous intervention ( ), and mysterious budget cut-offs that made it look like it was just some half-hearted attempt at Gundam (reused scenes over and over again), the awkward reintroduction of the old cast (to which I say has FANSERVICE screaming all over it) when the new cast's characters weren't that well established yet AT the early part of the series, some major plot holes (Terminal, Freedom surviving the Jachin Due war, Mwu = Neo [that guy was blasted with a positron blast for crying out LOUD ], Athrun's awkward shuttling from Orb to ZAFT then back to Orb again [when you thought that at least after going through the same shit in GS he'd know what he was going against or why he's even there], Cagalli's sudden inability to lead [after being touted as the Athha successor and should have more sense in believing in her capabilities which she showed so "remarkably well" in SEED], Stellar's mysterious past [and why she looks so much like Mayu... ], Dullindal, Rey, Kira becoming a Newtype [and apparently Lacus as well...], Destiny Plan), then Shinn nerfed as the main character...GSD was a total joke. Apparently Fukuda wasn't well enough with the way he handled SEED so he returned with a vengeance to try his hand into making us believe that he still has the power to make us applaud his efforts in Gundam...which totally fell flat. Shinn just had to say bye-bye because Fukuda wasn't brave enough to do things with his strong personality and well-written chracter; if given enough chance to develop he would more than likely topple Kira off his top spot (and to which I wonder if Fukuda wants us to remember him as the man who created Kira, Lacus, Cagalli, Athrun and nobody else) and if Shinn should still stay with the "series Gundam" concept and beat the crap out of Kira for his ideals it would ruin his chances of making it out with his wife. Shinn was like a boat that was suddenly cut off from civilization and left to float for the rest of eternity in the middle of nowhere. GSD had such a promising lead in Shinn Asuka, but the way they handled his nerfing and their sudden "abandoning" of the "series Gundam" + pilot/main hero/protagonist in favor of a 3 main character show with more plot holes to rival that of the first SEED is more than just a tad bit too much, it's EVIL~~~!!! It's GSD without Destiny Gundam in the 3rd to 4th OP credits, which is tantamount to insulting Shinn Asuka as the series' supposed "main character" and now, even if Fukuda manages to nerf him, Shinn would definitely take over Kira's spot so rapidly Fukuda would wish he'd just stayed true to his intended concept and not bow down before the wave of fanservicism. Not now, but later, and I guarantee it, with the waves of fans now supporting his abrupt "nerfing" and that he shouldn't have been nerfed including Kira fans/old cast fans who support this idea.

GSD = without fanservice and if it stayed with the original plot and its supposed "series Gundam" + pilot/main hero/protagonist + "peace should save the entire world" with Shinn's own way and not Kira's or Lacus' but his OWN way (like what the others did before Kira) + character development for both new cast (30-40%) and old cast members (10%) up + kicking all those ridiculous plot holes out of the way (same with Fukuda's Immortality God Shield TM for Kira and Lacus and the rest of their "lackeys" [sadly, this is how Athrun and Cagalli + Archangel + Eternal + Orb + Terminal ended up as...])

GS was the first the receive that crap. Fukuda originally meant for Fllay to dive bomb into the Archangel using the Strike Rouge and kill all of its crew members, Kira was supposed to have died as well, and Athrun was supposed to lose a leg. I don't know what actually happened , but Fukuda decides to rehash the entire thing and decides to have an ending in which all fans would be appeased. There was a backlash in Japan regarding Fllay's death (she is still very popular in Japan) and there was this and there was that; Fukuda originally meant for Fllay to die in the original script, but the way he handled it in the rehash left much enough for Fllay fanboys and Lacus fanboys to pick over and over again; then there are the plot holes, glaring plot holes, which were sort of handled in the special edition (Mwu's suposed reincarnation in GSD with that floating helmet in space gag), but still left for more assumptions, conclusions, and what have you. Obviously fan-made assumptions, as Fukuda didn't explicitly state what had happened, how it happened; he just left the bulk of the thinking to us fans who would watch the whole damn show, but as you could now probably see with the way this thread is going on, it still feels pointless because the director didn't say anything why he nerfed Shinn, he just left the fans do the thinking on their own, and so we are now left with even more plot holes, fan-made assumptions, etc., etc.

But going with this popularity rating thing, I still cannot see why Shinn was nerfed. He is pretty popular in Japan, but not much so as Athrun and Kira...so does that mean that if you're not in the top ranking 3 (or in this case 2) positions, you'll be eligible for a nerf? I would understand it if Shinn was somewhere below the top 10 mark (he's hovering in the top 6-8 positions the last time I checked, I think he even reached a 5), meaning that the fans did not take to him as much as they took to Kira and Athrun, and definitely need to nerf him, or downgrade him so bad so as not to make the fans buy his image Gundam models, blah blah blah, and so on and so forth. Also, we have GS held against him; if Fukuda says that this is for the new generation fans of Gundam so it is now a homage to UC (make new fans like Gundam), then Kira = Amuro, and so Shinn must go against the standard set by Kira and if he does not adhere to this standard he is X_____X. But then again Kira is not Shinn, Athrun is not Rey, Lacus is not Meer, Cagalli is not Lunamaria...why does it seem that in order to survive the CE one must be like the old cast ? There was a reason why Shinn was created as Shinn and not some Kira clone. But again going with this popularity rating thing and the fans decide that Shinn is not Kira, Fukuda will kowtow to their whim and so have him nerfed. This is the first anime I've ever seen in which the director bows to the multitude of the entire fandom. And if Fukuda could do it in GS, why not GSD? (sarcasm)

fftopic: I saw the Del Rey manga version of the SEED manga and it says story by (one random guy) and Yoshiyuki Tomino?!?!?

He doesn't want exploding letters in his fan mail. And leave us with the conclusion that Kira is the GOD and Lacus is his GODDESS so their ideals are the BEST and not leave much for debate since their ideals are for the best for the rest of the entire universe.

Seriously...I think Fukuda is just too damn lazy. Lazy, and with his wife doing the "evil" work of "characterization" for the characters (to which I say WHAT characterization?! ) and because they like Kira and they like Lacus so much they decide to give us a sequel that should really be called Gundam SEED 2. They never truly explained how? and why? and in their interviews as they seem to be joking around a lot and seem to think that not all true blue hardcore fans would take this murder of the UC seriously. GSD for kids... no wonder I just think Power Rangers for no apparent reason...

So going by that assumption (that Fukuda did not think that the fans will take them seriously and not question this and that) we could also conclude that Fukuda thinks we are just Lacus' sheep for total world domination.

Peace is the solution to everything!

*Pulls out anti-flame ofuda*

Please don't hurt me...

[Demongod86]

Originally Posted by kodachrome

Well, if you want personal opinions...

Why Kira (and Lacus) ruin(s) the series for me:
To me, Kira and Lacus don't represent humanity, but they represent this unrealistic, un-attainable vision "higher deity" or whatever... Kira's power is un-attainable, and Lacus's influence is unrealistic. And then they have their followers, who can basically be summed up as the rest of the Three Ships Alliance. It is their ideals that dominate the series (and I say this because they come out on top in both SEED and GSD), as well as the people of the Cosmic Era (refer to Final Plus and Lacus's influence).

Because their ideals are what dominates the outcome of the series, they are the black and white "right."

I hate the idea/concept of a black and white ideal of right, especially in a war anime. How... amateur. o_O

You can argue that the Earth Alliance and ZAFT was supposed to be the Black and White parts, and the Archangel was the gray, but I think it was made obvious that both the EA and ZAFT both were "wrong" thus there is a black and white right of EA/ZAFT v. TSA.

Because of Kira's un-attainable power by him conveniently being the ultimate coordinator, we basically have ueber-battle god dude thing.

And since Lacus has unrealistic influential skills, we have a voice that people will listen to without fail. This has been proven by Meer's effectiveness and Lacus's words in Final Plus.

And since Lacus is a foil character of Fllay, situations just have to be under her control and things must turn out in her ultimate favor because Fllay failed in those areas.

I hate characters like those. To me, they are walking plot devices to patch up holes. And having two of them as the main character just really ruins the environment of the series for me because you know it'll turn out with them on top, and well, hey it did. ~_~

What I got from their characters was, Kira and Lacus's way or the highway, kids.

And yes, that "ruins" the series for me. As an aspiring writer, I will make sure to keep them in mind when I want a reminder of what not to do with characters...

Funny because later in my own original work I plan to have a character that people will just SCREAM "LACUSU!!!!!" at if they have seen GS/GSD and are smart enough to make the connection. Not as a main, for sure. And definitely not powerful enough to simply lull an entire nation with her words.

However, you have to realize that Lacus's influence is just that...INFLUENCE...if you want an example of a Lacus type of person, loved by all, beautiful, influential, pristine, kind, etc... then here is one: princess Diana. Sadly, tunnel+car+paparazzi+bad driver>princess Diana. But Kira doesn't suck at driving, and if Lacus ever died in a car accident like that...also, Mia's influence was complimenting Durandaru Gichou. Think of Durandall as a sort of Bill Clinton-like guy, minus playing all the wrong holes. He was a politician that was basically loved by the commonwealth people. Lacus was ALSO held in high esteem. Up to this point, she was the daughter of the leader, and a songstress that was NOT oversexed and didn't sing corny songs. (Gee...the concept is almost impossible to conceive in our day and age here in the US of A). Her reputation as a moderate young politician was well-earned, as was her influence.

Kira being unrealistic? I think he was being an ideal big brother, gentle guy and all, that doesn't really want to hurt people, but wants to help his friends and family out, and is an all-around genuinely good guy. In fact, if I ha to pick any anime character to relate my best friend to, it actually WOULD be Kira. Kira is perhaps somewhat exaggerated in some of his traits, like the rapid pace at which he can learn a mobile suit, but that's what makes him exemplary. His brain, and gentle heart. I'd say Kira has very realistic traits, but perhaps some of them are taken to an unrealistic extent. But in order to be willing to believe a story, we must give some leeway for the writers to do something extraordinary with the characters.

Overall, it was the reused scenes and actually Shinn that ruined it for me, the reason being the utter FAILURE of a character he was. Fukuda had MULTIPLE opportunities to write Shinn's scenes out better, and to have Shinn think about Athrun's words more. Shinn NEVER did until the VERY end when it finally penetrated Fukuda's thick skull to actually have Shinn just STOP for a second, detach himself from the situation, from his angst-on-two-legs self, and think about things in the bigger picture. In fact, I think that in episode 34, if Shinn actually felt he LOST that fight, that he could have become a much bigger character. Because the way GSD went, Shinn won a battle nobody else possibly could have--and lost the war for his character to become anything decent.

Overall, I think the writing for Kira and Lacus was bang on. They stayed consistent to their idealistic characters with the power to change the world (and went and did it). It's just that Fukuda screwed up with everyone else. Durandall went from being a well-meaning guy to "Athrun isn't being my pawn, let's kill him. DIE, LACUS CLYNE!!!" in episode 36, which was a real "WTF?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" for me, and then he's somehow magically behind EVERYTHING, from the Junius 7 drop, to sending out terrorists against Lacus Clyne, to staging the armory 1 heist, to knowing Jibril has Requiem and letting him fire that shit on the PLANTs for more public support.

Overall, I just think that the writers of GSD wrote themselves into a hole. Because they failed to have Shinn change and tempted people with Kira, they split the fandom, had people wanting Kira Kira Kira, so they just said "screw the new cast" and essentially trashed them. A FAR more INTERESTING ending would have been for Lacus and Durandall not to actually come to all of these huge blows and have Durandall turn to Darth Gichou with his two deathstars, but to invite Lacus Clyne to a conference and talk out a plan that has compromises from both of the idealists--Durandall's belief that humanity would be much happier with a system that would organize them, and Lacus's belief that humans should just be free to do whatever the hell they want.

I mean considering that Durandall's system had in mind to structure all of humanity, perhaps a Destiny+Lacus plan would have people be free to do what they wished to do, but strongly suggested based on their genetics what to do. The funny thing is that both of my grandfathers were engineers, and my dad was also an engineer in Russia. And now guess what? I'm majoring in Information and Systems ENGINEERING. So if I had to look at myself, I could say that I'm proof that Durandall's Destiny Plan CAN work to a slight extent.

I just think that the writers had great ideas, but COMPLETELY fucked up in the presentation. I really wouldn't put the blame on Kira and Lacus. They stayed true to their characters, and though a bit godly, I happened to appreciate them far more than the unthinking Shinn or Darth Gichou.

I'm not a fan of flat characters. Why do you think I liked Mia so much?

[thedonkiluminati]

Those who wrote the story are to blame. If a character sucks, they suck because of their writing. That simple, don't see how there can be any argument there.