General Eroge Impressions & Discussion

[erneiz_hyde]

The /vg recommendations chart (iirc, all of these have been translated already):

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Speaking of which, I really should start diving into the steampunk series.
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I played a little of KissBell from Giga. After HinaTera and AnoKo, this feels very much like your typical Giga high school VN. Very generic and got bored quickly

[Mahou]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

I played a little of KissBell from Giga. After HinaTera and AnoKo, this feels very much like your typical Giga high school VN. Very generic and got bored quickly

I liked some of its OST tracks. Giga's main problems, at least for its standard titles, is that the MC is usually too much portrayed as the dense boy and once it comes to the h-scenes a complete horndog who loses all self-control. KissBell managed to make it even worse and turned the MC also in being hopeless @school (which I bloody hate as a character trait). I think HotchKiss was the more harmless title within these drawbacks But, their scene recollection mode is quite good in that you can choose most of the events to re-watch (should there be something good, obviously ).

Whirlpool has also implemented a similar feature since their 2nd last title or so. This time, I also have a list of unplayed games due to a few weeks of no motivation for VNs (except of scene recollection *cough*).
Oh well, Sakura Mau has been pretty normal so far, even though I'm only past the intro movie. The switch back of MC's one day at the boy school was kept very short and there have hardly been moments of impending risks of his gender being revealed. A man-hating heroine added to the selectable cast.

Imouto lovers who don't want to bother with the (main) story can always dive into Yuri-chan's standalone patch .

[Snuffle]

I just finished reading 3 of the 4 routes in Aete Mushisuru Kimi to no Mirai ~Relay broadcast~ by Alcot, and I gotta say, that was an amazing read. The route I don't plan to read, is Souka, whom I believe is the main heroine (she's just so uninteresting).

Spoiler for Nanagi route (contains spoilers):

The first route I read was Nanagi (she's the main reason I played the game), her route I felt had the worst story. Her character is amazing though, I laugh so much whenever she is obsessing over Takurou (the MC). Her declaration that she has a brocon was utterly hilarious, not to mention her constant demands that Takurou should have a siscon. When the drama started, it turned into an extremely stupid sob fest... I mean, omg, get over it! How stupid are you Nanagi? You spend so many years with Takurou and all of a sudden you think he hates you when you find out about his past? Even when he worries about you, and is still nice to you, for days, you still think negatively? WTF is wrong with you girl?! Other than that forced drama, it was an entertaining route. 8/10

Spoiler for Minami route (contains spoilers):

Surprisingly a well told story, I only read Minami's route cause I wanted more Nanagi. I was expecting a typical story about a kohai admiring his senpai, but what I got instead, was a very interesting tale of the past relationship between Takurou and Minami. I don't have too much of an opinion of this route, but I'll say one thing. Miniami's dad, is such a jerk. 7/10

Spoiler for Kei's route (contains spoilers):

My god, this route.... This probably one of the most entertaining and possibly the best childhood friend stories I've ever read. Kei, Ruru and Takurou all feel like childhood friends and never seem to be out of sync with each other. Everything happened so naturally in this route that I couldn't spot a single thing out of place. All the way from the common route, to the start of Kei route, up until the end, I didn't feel anything being forced. The comedy is so sky high here that I'm feeling some discomfort from laughing so much. Kei's seiyuu did a phenomenal job with her character. She has to constantly switch her gears around to match with Kei's playful genki personality. There is no way I could not congratulate 'Kiritani Hana' with her performance. 9/10

I think it's worth noting that I don't really care for childhood friends, I prefer imoutos. So this route beating Nanagi's route was quite a feat.

My biggest complaint about this game is the supernatural element. It so poorly used that you could take it out and it wouldn't affect the routes I've read in any way... In fact, it would improve on the overall story since it would remove the poorly done foreshadowing (which was a major problem in Minami's route).

Next game on my list to play is either:
3rdEye - Gensou no Idea ~Oratorio Phantasm Historia~
-or-
Parasol - Yumekoi ~Yume Miru Mahou Shoujo to Koi no Jumon~

Since Gensou no Idea is linear, I know it will take me a very long time to finish. Maybe I'll get Yumekoi out of the way first. Has anyone here played Gensou no Idea? Is the story any good?

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

I played Kiss Maou...only for Shinobu route.

Seriously? Shinobu? Okay, I know there is some special thing you can do to have a more natural relationship (I seen the CG but I don't know how it happens, there is only one thing I could think of though ). But really? lol Are you into that kinda thing?

[hyl]

I read Aemushi more than a year ago and for me that game was Alcot Honeycomb's last decent game before they went downhill

Originally Posted by Snuffle

I just finished reading 3 of the 4 routes in Aete Mushisuru Kimi to no Mirai ~Relay broadcast~ by Alcot, and I gotta say, that was an amazing read. The route I don't plan to read, is Souka, whom I believeAX is the main heroine (she's just so uninteresting).

Uhm...
If you want to know a little more about some of the supernatural elements (future prediction thing), you need to read Souka's route because her route was all about that

Nanagi was a nice bracon heroine, but still inferior to HaruPoco's Ai.
For me the best overall character in Aemushi was Kei

[Snuffle]

Originally Posted by hyl

Uhm...
If you want to know a little more about some of the supernatural elements (future prediction thing), you need to to read Souka's route, because herb route was all about that

Nanagi is a nice bracon heroine, but still inferior to HaruPoco's Ai and for me the best overall character was Kei

Ya I figured as much (damn I thought I mentioned that). It doesn't change how poorly it was used in other routes though. I expect I won't understand the entire story if I don't read main heroine route. I don't care enough about the supernatural thing itself nor Souka, the other characters are enough for me.

I decided to look up the scenario writer right before I posted and I noticed that he also did HaruPoco. And of course, I noticed that there is an imouto in there too. Therefore, I definitely plan to read HaruPoco.

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by Snuffle

Seriously? Shinobu? Okay, I know there is some special thing you can do to have a more natural relationship (I seen the CG but I don't know how it happens, there is only one thing I could think of though ). But really? lol Are you into that kinda thing?

Oh yes. I've tread the dark path of traps since my encounter with Watarase Jun . At the time I played KissMaou, I was on a roll with Nounai Kanojo as well so I kinda ignored the other characters.

To clarify, my 'tastes' are VERY broad, each with a history of when and why I got hooked. I'm pretty much an omnivore now.

[PhoenixG]

Talking about Watarase Jun, Windmill is remaking Happiness!. Not sure if there is any update on the story, but they upgrade the art with e-mote style. More Haruhi boing-boing nes

[Mazryonh]

Originally Posted by PhoenixG

Talking about Watarase Jun, Windmill is remaking Happiness!. Not sure if there is any update on the story, but they upgrade the art with e-mote style. More Haruhi boing-boing nes

So is this going to be an all-ages port for a console? Are they going to redo the characters' voices with new seiyuus? If this is going to be an adult version, I doubt they could re-do Saya Kamijou's voice with the same voice actress; Shizuka Itou (Saya's seiyuu) recently got married and most eroge seiyuus stop working in eroge once they get married.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Mazryonh

So is this going to be an all-ages port for a console? Are they going to redo the characters' voices with new seiyuus? If this is going to be an adult version, I doubt they could re-do Saya Kamijou's voice with the same voice actress; Shizuka Itou (Saya's seiyuu) recently got married and most eroge seiyuus stop working in eroge once they get married.

I don't think there is any change to the voice acting. It's simply the combination of the original game with Re:Lucks and upgraded graphics/e:mote engine features. That said, I guess we'll see if she does stop working in the industry after all. Sometimes they will not take new roles, but may reprise existing roles for old time's sake.

[Mazryonh]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I don't think there is any change to the voice acting. It's simply the combination of the original game with Re:Lucks and upgraded graphics/e:mote engine features. That said, I guess we'll see if she does stop working in the industry after all. Sometimes they will not take new roles, but may reprise existing roles for old time's sake.

The E:mote engine you're referring to is the new "motion graphics" they're using for non-CG character sprites seen in more recent galge titles like WA1 for the PS3 and the OreImo PSP titles, right? I can't say I like it very much; it just puts the graphics into the uncanny valley for me. Moving mouths and blinking eyes for character sprites are enough for me, and those have been around since Pia Carrot 3.

So do you know if the remake of Happiness! is going to be all-ages or 18+? I thought that would have been the first thing that would have been announced about the remake.

It's typical for female eroge seiyuus to ditch that line of work once they get married; just look at how Mai Kadowaki's eroge roles dried up the same year she was married. I suppose it's because of the "married women don't do this" societal norm over in Japan, but it's by no means completely iron-clad. Shiho Kawaragi was still doing eroge roles (such as in Kara no Shoujo 2) even after getting married and starting a family. At least now she has had some mainstream success after being feted during a recent "Tales of Festival" event as Cheria Barnes.

[Snuffle]

Originally Posted by Mazryonh

The E:mote engine you're referring to is the new "motion graphics" they're using for non-CG character sprites seen in more recent galge titles like WA1 for the PS3 and the OreImo PSP titles, right? I can't say I like it very much; it just puts the graphics into the uncanny valley for me. Moving mouths and blinking eyes for character sprites are enough for me, and those have been around since Pia Carrot 3.

So do you know if the remake of Happiness! is going to be all-ages or 18+? I thought that would have been the first thing that would have been announced about the remake.

I think it was implied when relentlessflame said it was going to be the original game + re:lucks, since both of those don't have a game that's under 18+.

And since this is Windmill we're talking about here, I'm pretty sure it's going to be their own e:mote engine which is the very nicely refined version of the clumsy 3D models you may find in other games. I haven't seen the references you mentioned so it's possible my info is of no help to you. Here's a sample of Windmill's e:mote engine from their game, Witch's Garden.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml57DW3K-u4

I for one am very excited to see Happiness get this upgrade, since I've yet to play the game. I've been planning to go through it very soon just for Anri's route, since she left a good impression on me from the anime. But now I need to decide if I should wait for it or not... It depends on the release date I guess.

[erneiz_hyde]

Oh wow, Happiness is being re:made? Color me interested. My favorite aside from Jun was Ibuki, and I remember Happiness had loooooong h-scenes. I also remember Happiness as the game where I first learned Mahjong from. I wonder if they'll include it again.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

Speaking of which, I really should start diving into the steampunk series.
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I thought you would have long gotten up to date with it

Anyway, here's the thread for it

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...ight=steampunk

[Mazryonh]

Originally Posted by Snuffle

I think it was implied when relentlessflame said it was going to be the original game + re:lucks, since both of those don't have a game that's under 18+.

After Fate/Stay Night's infamous CGI dragon and dolphin in place of h-scenes or suggestive material in the anime adaptation, it's been proven beyond a doubt that any 18+ scenario from a game can be turned into an all-ages one if the writing team can re-write the necessary parts and the seiyuus are willling to re-record a few lines here and there. I would expect that in this economic climate, there is pressure to cater to the all-ages "Keima Katsuragi from TWGOK" crowd of players who play visual novels on portable gaming devices like the Playstation Vita (since there are many more of those gamers than there are gamers who play 18+ games). Furthermore, console manufacturers flatly won't allow 18+ games on their systems.

Originally Posted by Snuffle

And since this is Windmill we're talking about here, I'm pretty sure it's going to be their own e:mote engine which is the very nicely refined version of the clumsy 3D models you may find in other games. I haven't seen the references you mentioned so it's possible my info is of no help to you. Here's a sample of Windmill's e:mote engine from their game, Witch's Garden.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml57DW3K-u4

It still looks stiff and unnatural to me.

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

Oh wow, Happiness is being re:made? Color me interested. My favorite aside from Jun was Ibuki, and I remember Happiness had loooooong h-scenes. I also remember Happiness as the game where I first learned Mahjong from. I wonder if they'll include it again.

Wasn't Ibuki just a fake version of Ilya from Fate/Stay Night?

[PhoenixG]

Originally Posted by Snuffle

I think it was implied when relentlessflame said it was going to be the original game + re:lucks, since both of those don't have a game that's under 18+.

The Original game was ported to ps2, with extra route (saya)

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by Mazryonh

Wasn't Ibuki just a fake version of Ilya from Fate/Stay Night?

Well, if you're going that way, pretty much every character is a copy of some other character. besides, unlike Ilya, she actually has a route and stuffs

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Mazryonh

After Fate/Stay Night's infamous CGI dragon and dolphin in place of h-scenes or suggestive material in the anime adaptation, it's been proven beyond a doubt that any 18+ scenario from a game can be turned into an all-ages one if the writing team can re-write the necessary parts and the seiyuus are willling to re-record a few lines here and there. I would expect that in this economic climate, there is pressure to cater to the all-ages "Keima Katsuragi from TWGOK" crowd of players who play visual novels on portable gaming devices like the Playstation Vita (since there are many more of those gamers than there are gamers who play 18+ games). Furthermore, console manufacturers flatly won't allow 18+ games on their systems.

In this case, as this is being marketed under the Windmill brand and they specifically said it was a combination of the original + Re:Lucks (and not De:Lucks, which was the PS2 version), it'll be the 18+ version. I'm expecting a straight port with no new content, so that will probably bypass the VA issues. It's possible, of course, that they could then turn around and make a new version of the console port... but who knows. Happiness is a bit old now, and may not be worth re-porting... though I think they'll be able to cash-in a bit on the nostalgia factor on the PC/18+ side.

As for e:mote, it is still a bit "early days", but I thought it was pretty well done in Witch's Garden (I thought it added to the game rather than taking away, personally), and I think it'll continue to get better as they keep working on it. If you just let it play on auto mode and change the display to look more "subtitle-style", it flows pretty well, though there is still a bit of choppiness due to the fact it's scripted line-by-line. If they do more inner-line scripting for the non-speaking characters, it'll be even smoother.

[Mazryonh]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

Well, if you're going that way, pretty much every character is a copy of some other character. besides, unlike Ilya, she actually has a route and stuffs

I have a feeling that Ilya from F/SN didn't get a route (despite the vast number of Japanese fans there are of her body and voice type) because Type-Moon wanted to distance itself from its earlier days when characters like Len of "A cat is fine too" fame got "winning sequences" in its games.

Of course, the vast majority of eroge developers have no such compunctions about giving such characters with "suspicious" body types "winning sequences" in their own titles. Ibuki of Happiness! was, in my opinion, made to give fans of Ilya some of what they were missing. The funny thing is, Ilya's seiyuu, Mai Kadowaki, is no stranger to voicing characters of that archetype in eroge titles, even to the point of making (censored) noises for their "winning sequences."

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

In this case, as this is being marketed under the Windmill brand and they specifically said it was a combination of the original + Re:Lucks (and not De:Lucks, which was the PS2 version), it'll be the 18+ version. I'm expecting a straight port with no new content, so that will probably bypass the VA issues. It's possible, of course, that they could then turn around and make a new version of the console port... but who knows. Happiness is a bit old now, and may not be worth re-porting... though I think they'll be able to cash-in a bit on the nostalgia factor on the PC/18+ side.

Pardon me, I had forgotten about the "De:Lucks" PS2 port from 2007. Still, it was released when the PSP didn't have much market share among VN titles. So many former eroge titles are currently being "bleached" (to use a term from TVTropes) for release among the "Keima Katsuragi" kind of VN player, and clearly the market is successful, or why else would they keep on doing it? Even the "Kami-ge" White Album 2 is getting a Playstation Vita port after its PS3 port. I wouldn't be surprised if Leaf made a PSV port for White Album 1 in the future, using the PS3 version as a basis.

The problem of re-releases is that there isn't a lot of incentive to buy them unless A) there are a lot of new customers who haven't heard of or experienced the original game for themselves, or B) you add new content. So many eroge re-releases add new scenarios/CG/characters, after all--how can this new version of Happiness! compete unless it follows suit?

As for the "VA issues," I'm not aware of any of the original cast of Happiness! getting married in the interim aside from Shizuka Itou, and her character is clearly not the most popular of the game anyway (though obviously Itou-san has had the most mainstream fame and acclaim among the cast). They could just as easily recast her role as another alternative, though.

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

As for e:mote, it is still a bit "early days", but I thought it was pretty well done in Witch's Garden (I thought it added to the game rather than taking away, personally), and I think it'll continue to get better as they keep working on it. If you just let it play on auto mode and change the display to look more "subtitle-style", it flows pretty well, though there is still a bit of choppiness due to the fact it's scripted line-by-line. If they do more inner-line scripting for the non-speaking characters, it'll be even smoother.

Another characteristic I don't like about how motion graphics are implemented in these games are how the sprites are stretched in an unrealistic manner. Just look at this promo video for WA1 on the PS3 and how the heroines' chests heave in completely unrealistic ways:

Speaking of remakes, I'd like for Leaf to release an 18+ re-make of Utawarerumono, actually. When it came out the English reviews I read didn't like how linear it was, how limited the tactical RPG combat scenarios were, and how the heroines didn't get routes of their own, just brief story arcs. A remake could correct this, give us higher-resolution updated CG art, finally have individual routes for the heroines, and likely sell well given how well-received the original game (and its anime adaptation) sold.

Sadly, given how popular the Utawarerumono anime and its voice cast proved, I'm sure there would be tremendous fan pressure to get the anime's voice cast to reprise their roles. Ryouka Yuzuki (Eruruu's seiyuu) now does eroge titles (as evidenced by her portrayal of Bertille from Walkure Romanze: More and More), but fan favourites like Rie Kugimiya (Kamyuu's seiyuu), Sayaka Ohara (Urutorii's seiyuu), and Mai Nakahara (Yuzuha's seiyuu) wouldn't be caught dead making (censored) noises for eroge titles. Karura's seiyuu (Atsuko Tanaka) could be replaced, since there are a few other eroge seiyuus who can portray deep-voiced women like Hitomi Nabatame or Ryouko Tanaka.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Mazryonh

Pardon me, I had forgotten about the "De:Lucks" PS2 port from 2007. Still, it was released when the PSP didn't have much market share among VN titles. So many former eroge titles are currently being "bleached" (to use a term from TVTropes) for release among the "Keima Katsuragi" kind of VN player, and clearly the market is successful, or why else would they keep on doing it? Even the "Kami-ge" White Album 2 is getting a Playstation Vita port after its PS3 port. I wouldn't be surprised if Leaf made a PSV port for White Album 1 in the future, using the PS3 version as a basis.

Honestly... I think the port business is basically the same as it was back in the day, only the Platform of choice has changed. It was probably around the time that eroge anime adaptations started that people started realizing that porting 18+ games to all-ages/consoles was a good strategy because a) it could potentially release new audiences when tied to an anime/manga/etc., and b) people who really liked the original game would buy it again to get extra routes and/or the anime voice staff (as the case may be; Happiness had the same cast). I think the fundamental premise is still the same then and now, but the platform shifted from PS2 -> PSP (and some PS3) -> now PSV.

However...

Originally Posted by Mazryonh

The problem of re-releases is that there isn't a lot of incentive to buy them unless A) there are a lot of new customers who haven't heard of or experienced the original game for themselves, or B) you add new content. So many eroge re-releases add new scenarios/CG/characters, after all--how can this new version of Happiness! compete unless it follows suit?

...In this case, I think they're banking a lot on nostalgia. Ko~cha's art has still held up pretty well over the years, and implementing the e:mote system gives it a new twist. So I think a straight port combining the two games in one SKU with upgraded graphics + e:mote plus a few nice bonuses/store extras will sell well enough to be worth the development cost. I know I'll probably buy it again, and even play at least some routes through again just out of nostalgia.

[Mahou]

@HaruPoco That reminded me of my vague intention in playing the complete VN instead of my savegamed true-route-only readthrough

Anyway:

I have started playing Magicalic <-> Skyhigh by whirlpool. Due to one of my randomly obtained strange habits, I only played two routes after the confession scene instead of my usual route after route way.
Anyway, our dear MC tends to be of the denser side, but luckily you don't get it rubbed in the face every second so it's tolerable. As with whirlpool's last two titles, no true route. The girls are likeable as usual and the osananajimi confession scene and its build up was lovely .

And I plan - eventually - to start Amatarasu RiddleStar. It *has* quite much ecchi scenes per heroine, but also a few serious CGs (including one slight gory one *shudder*). I have no real expectations for it other than my usual ramblings *lol*.

Lastly: Sakura Mau has been a nice experience. The buil-up to Aoi's gender reveal was okay-ish in the routes I played up to that point, where Mizuki had the most drama in it.
You gotta love Yuri, though. I love her pouting expression: http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/Kikanme/Yuri.png