Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 15 Discussion / Poll

[Papaya]

Saji piloting it NP.

[DJ_RockmanX]

I'm gonna be using the Conclave-Mendoi subs to make my case.

Originally Posted by Demongod86

During the initial assault...why the hell didn't Lockon and Allelujah just turn around and bolt out of there? Sure they woulda taken a few hits, but anything compared to what followed?

It was completely in Lockon and Allelujah's intention to get the hell out of there the second their intervention was over. Problem with that is the missile barrage began JUST as Lockon tells Allelujah that they're gonna bail (in ultimate dramatic fashion).

Originally Posted by Demongod86

Furthermore...for all of those questioning about why did Sumeragi do nothing, in Shinsen subs, she says that plan E5 involved the new unit, so she was probably very much aware that the Thrones were at the ready. I don't know what Wang's connection with Alejandro Corner is, but either she's in over her head, or Alejandro is an ace in the sleeve from now until whenever.

She's NOT talking about the Thrones here. That's Shinsen's fault for misinterpreting the Sumeragi's internal monologue. She refers to "that suit", and then turns her concern to Allelujah. This means Soma's pink Taozi, and how the Supersoldier's presence at that stage of the battle would completely derail the Gundam's plans of ever regrouping.

As for Alejandro Corner, I see no connection between him and the rest of Celestial Being besides that of an observer. When he mentions that his job may already be over, it is because the Meisters are getting completely pwned.

I really need to finish writing my analysis on the battle. I've got almost everything figured out (even if it took 7 watches of the episode).

[Owaranai Destiny]

Leaving those minor things like hax and GSD aside, I'm wondering about the capabilities of this GN Arms and what exactly they run on...GN particles?

She's NOT talking about the Thrones here. That's Shinsen's fault for misinterpreting the Sumeragi's internal monologue. She refers to "that suit", and then turns her concern to Allelujah. This means Soma's pink Taozi, and how the Supersoldier's presence at that stage of the battle would completely derail the Gundam's plans of ever regrouping.

Ah. That explains quite a bit, and this sounds more logical in a way. Apparently no one at CB knows anything about the Thrones until they showed up.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Owaranai Destiny

Leaving those minor things like hax and GSD aside, I'm wondering about the capabilities of this GN Arms and what exactly they run on...GN particles?

Two options I can think of. One is that it runs off of a GN Drive, and the other is that it's powered by the Exia's GN Drive ala the Ptolemaios. And I bet anything it is meant to act like the G-Defensor and give a boost to the Exia which is soon to be aging Celestial Beings technology.

[LightningZERO]

Capabilities=Anti Agarissa (sp?)

It seems that it has no other weapons, other than 2 huge blades

[monster]

Originally Posted by LightningZERO

Capabilities=Anti Agarissa (sp?)

It seems that it has no other weapons, other than 2 huge blades

What about those things on the sides of Exia's head? On the top.

[winter45]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

I mean if hax is an episode where the old Gundams get trashed to introduce the new Gundams then every series in Gundam history has that hax...

Yes just about every G-series has that so called HAX when the old gundams get trashed for new ones.... Its Gundam LORE its bound to happen and to be expected.

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

But if hax is just retarted l33tness that you expected the Gundam pilots to achieve based on the scenerio inwhich they were in in this episode then I don't want that hax every time....

I agree.. I never did like the HAX l33tness.. it just cheapens the character and downgrades the quality of the anime. I can understand the reasons of implament, but dont like it going overboard in a stupid fashion, Always preferd it keep it to a realism level.

EG.. 3 TMF/A-802 BuCUE attacking Kira in the desert.... They were wooping Kira ass, till kira decided to go god mode when convenience (PLOT) and nailed all 3... talk about Cheap!!!!

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

I guess hax is such a subjective word it can easily be misunderstood, but in my usage I mean out-of-bounds l33tness that throws all common sense or logic outta the window (Even for the context)...I DON'T think the Thrones are gonna do that since this series has been cultivated in a way where even the over-poweredness seems far more contained than the previous G-series...

Yes atm i feel the same that the overpowerdness is contained for now.. Hopefully the director continues this approach.. I dont want another cheap team invincible happening.

[lordgemini]

Ok, first of all, I also think that the chapter was a gret one , not because the gundams were totally defefeated, but the form, as many of you already said, it was an excelent tactic, and executed almost perfectly (yes, we lost a member of the flag team, but good Joshua never listen anyway, so it would be happen sooner or later ).

Well, about something, first I would like to hear your opinion of the outcome of this pinch, yes we know the throne will save them but, then what??? if the coalition of powers is defeated now. What are they hopes for the future????, To capture 4 gundams tehy need 800+ MS, the work of la crème de la crème, and a goodwill effort to trust the other power. If this end with not even a little achivement to the powers, they are as good as finished, becase this tactic will not work again. so I hope the "rescue" will not be as clean and successful as I suspect (well , at least the gundam mesiter know they lost, so it we will see some character developmet, I am pretty interest in how Tieria will react), and the powers gain something that helps them to improve in the future.

Now IMHO:
About the best and the worst gundam Pilot, i think the worst is Lockon, not because he is not powerful enough, in fact he is my favorite gundam meister, but his true ability is as a sniper and as a soldier, if he was a great pilote, he would not need a Haro to help him in navigation and defense. They want a sniper in that gundam, not a pilot.


Then Allelujah, maybe he is the best of them as a pilot, but only in potential, in fact, is a shame that we had not seen any Allelujah at all, all his good fights are in Hallelujah mode, or in an immense pain caused by some. I think he is potentially the best pilot because his is a cyber new...., well no, an improve human, but we don't have enough on screen information to tell if he is better or worse than any ace or gundam pilote.


Also, Do you like de "charanization" of Ali, now he pilot the red mobile suite, and use red as his suite color, I don't know if it was planned or if the character gain a good fan base so they decide to make him important,but IMO it was a good move, making a mid-boss in something more interesting. Also I love his mobile armor.

Finally, I see Liu-Mei character more like Wong in Z than as a leader, she seems like someone who gives money and resources to celestial beign, but not as a decision maker, i think that role is more to Alejandro corner, or someone higher than him.

[SuperKnuckles]

I'm not sure why everyone presume the new Gundams to be 'much' more powerful than the ones we've seen so far. Maybe the Nadleeh and the other Gundams have secret functions that'll let them operate at a more powerful level (maybe they didn't chance risking their secrets found out, such with Nadleeh). And the Gundam pilots were way too under the weather to gauge their effectiveness. I still have ample hope the original four will find ways to compete pretty well with any new group of pilots.

[Owaranai Destiny]

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

I'm not sure why everyone presume the new Gundams to be 'much' more powerful than the ones we've seen so far. Maybe the Nadleeh and the other Gundams have secret functions that'll let them operate at a more powerful level (maybe they didn't chance risking their secrets found out, such with Nadleeh). And the Gundam pilots were way too under the weather to gauge their effectiveness. I still have ample hope the original four will find ways to compete pretty well with any new group of pilots.

Ah. The bits might explain a little, perhaps? We haven't seen any of those flying around with the Meisters.

I guess most of us are basing our observations off what we can see only in the preview AND the OP, which MIGHT have exaggerated some of the stuff we will be seeing later on.

But what of secret functions? Not much use if the pilots and their Gundams get caught without it being used. Or perhaps it might be something even the pilots themselves don't even know about.

[Ichimaru]

how lame was joshua hahahah

he reminds me of heine in GSD....

[lordgemini]

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

I'm not sure why everyone presume the new Gundams to be 'much' more powerful than the ones we've seen so far.

Well , I am IMO they are more porwerful because

1) Based in the reactions of Tieria, we can assume that CB don't want to show off a lot of power at this earlie stage, so we assume that the the next gundams to appear will be more powerful that the first ones.

2) If they come to the rescue, they need at least the power to overcome whatever is threatening the other gundams, if not, then is nonsense to send them.

3)They have red G particles. (and in gundam red is a powerful color )

Originally Posted by Owaranai Destiny

But what of secret functions? Not much use if the pilots and their Gundams get caught without it being used. Or perhaps it might be something even the pilots themselves don't even know about.

This is also true, in the first Setstuna vs. Ali, the boy show a power surge when he cut the Ali's sword, also it was Allelujah and not Hallelujah who fight in this battle, and everybody knows that Hallelujah is more efficient (not better pilot, only more efficient without that pity or guilty that stops his alter ego) And tieria don't make those "crazy yellow eyes" neither show the Lacus gundam, so we can assume that the Thrones are more powerful than the "not power up" versions of the other gundams

Also a reflection; What happen with Sumeragi? She knew all the plan to catch the gundams (Billy tell her) even the part to tire the gundam meisters, so , Why she didn't make a plan to counter it ?????

[Ichimaru]

The question is how much more powerful do you want these gundams to be, the side of the CB factions?

seriously the CB meisters gundams are already a handful against earths 3 parties if fightin per factions instead of the 3 combined.....

now if these thrones gundams can take out earths army, then what would earths army need to do to catch up? technology they are way behind in terms of advancement, the only thing they dont lack is good pilots....

Only thing i hope for is for the anti-gundam ordanization find out the source of them green particles so they can use it on there MS....which would lvl the playing field with the meisters, but the thrones are on different lvl.

[Joachim]

well it will be obvious that those new suits (the thrones) will be overwhelming, its kinda nonsense if they actually the same as the 4 mobile suits, but again i hope its not gonna turn into some grunt-acrobat-pawning-gundam, come on im happy with the fact that 4 of our main mobile suits can't stand a chance against that many mobile suits, but now we got new contender (3 of them) and i think we'll see them pawning some ass next episode (well of course they will, if they got their ass handed down by those 900++ grunts, next episode will be a funny one ;D)

well but i still can accept that those 3 will pawn the earth parties because the earth parties have lack of information about those 3 (remember that our 4 gundams has been analyzed by previous combats) and yea fin funnel + new type == GG (char's counterattack anyone?) though i can't see how well is the fin funnel can operate in throne's machine

[CeDeR]

yeah i hope they arent very overpowered to make the meisters look bad

[Duo Maxwell]

Even if their power are just the same as the current Gundam, they still have quite big chance to win this battle. How much effort the 3 factors spend just to pin down those Gundam? Add another 3 Gundam with the same power, it's enough to break the operation. I don't think because they gonna save the 4 Meisters, so they are stronger.

[Ichimaru]

Originally Posted by CeDeR

yeah i hope they arent very overpowered to make the meisters look bad

well the meister make earths army look bad with there advance technology...

and for once they have decrease the gap between grunt and gundam expecially how close melee combat its pretty even

[Joachim]

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

Even if their power are just the same as the current Gundam, they still have quite big chance to win this battle. How much effort the 3 factors spend just to pin down those Gundam? Add another 3 Gundam with the same power, it's enough to break the operation. I don't think because they gonna save the 4 Meisters, so they are stronger.

thats just what i said, those 3 aren't in the earth parties calculation (call it surprise gift from CB) lucky if they can assemble another plan to react to it, but i will still say that 3 new unit is indeed stronger than the 4 meisters unit, thats just how it is in this gundam show

anyway if they indeed going to win with another 3 suits that have same power, well so much for this episode just when we see 4 gundam can't match 1000 grunts, suddenly with additon 3 they can match 1000 grunts, well there goes the hax, if this operation turn out to be a rescue and hit fast then retreat sure i'll buy it, if it suddenly turn to another grunt pawning, well .. speechless not that i dont like grunt pawning gundams..

but well we'll just see in eps 16 what's gonna happen

[Jays]

I'd be pretty dejected if I got saved by a little girl with a superior mobile suit. Hell, I wonder how Teiria is going to live knowing he was saved by someone outside of his circle. It comes down to the fact that the miesters think of themselves pretty highly, and then to be rescued by someone who works for the same organization as them, of whom they have no prior knowledge, is just well... try explaining it to them.

-

Personally, I still think that the miesters - and perhaps the original crew of the ship - at some of the show will defect from CB. There's just too much going around the miesters without them knowing about it, even Tieria is probably oblivious to the circumstances they are being put in. Tough to say but I think that the current miesters will begin to lose faith in CB from this incident on.

[Narutaro]

Originally Posted by Joachim

thats just what i said, those 3 aren't in the earth parties calculation (call it surprise gift from CB) lucky if they can assemble another plan to react to it, but i will still say that 3 new unit is indeed stronger than the 4 meisters unit, thats just how it is in this gundam show

anyway if they indeed going to win with another 3 suits that have same power, well so much for this episode just when we see 4 gundam can't match 1000 grunts, suddenly with additon 3 they can match 1000 grunts, well there goes the hax, if this operation turn out to be a rescue and hit fast then retreat sure i'll buy it, if it suddenly turn to another grunt pawning, well .. speechless not that i dont like grunt pawning gundams..

but well we'll just see in eps 16 what's gonna happen

I don't think it's a hax if they suddenly can win a fight with just the addition of 3 more gundam. call it element of surprise. also, we don't know if they will destroy all 800+ mobile suit. I think their priorities is still saving the gundam. so most likely they come in surprise, kill a few mobile suits and look damn cool doing it, and then get the hell out quickly before the world power have time to regroup and react