Kill La Kill - Episode 20 Discussion / Poll

[chrno]

Wow, talk about revelations. And the funny thing is that the episode turned out just how the fanbase expected. Though I wonder if there was a leak or was it speculations in regards to the whole "switcheroo". I had just happened across some fanart that pretty much put out this whole thing. Then you watch episode 20 and BAM! Happens right there.

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by chrno

Wow, talk about revelations. And the funny thing is that the episode turned out just how the fanbase expected. Though I wonder if there was a leak or was it speculations in regards to the whole "switcheroo".

Well, I can assure you I had no access to leaks. The logic of episode 19 lead me to suggest that Satsuki would end up wearing Senketsu:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...25#post5019625

We didn't hear anything about that super-mega-Kamui that was the subject of the last episode. Wonder who is wearing that, if anyone? Ragyo perhaps?

So far we've had the two girls and their mother in the "wedding dress," yet no suitors in sight. Nui might like that job. Mako is the obvious choice as Ryuko's "prince," but I don't see her having much interest in the other two. Nui, on the other hand, seems like an equal-opportunity lesbian.

This show certainly conforms to the "Girls rule while boys drool" philosophy of world affairs.

[Homura7]

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Solace

Was there ever a hero/villain trope to begin with? Ryuko wasn't exactly fighting for heroic reasons, heck she hardly gave a damn about anything except her revenge. And Satsuki has never been overtly evil beyond being a strict ruler. The school raids were probably the worst thing she's done.

I suppose there's Nudist Beach (black outfits) versus Revocs (white outfits)? Ah well.

Some thoughts on this ep:

While I'm enjoying the twists and turns, I'm bothered by how quickly everyone except Ryuko (Superman) and Satsuki (Batman) have been marginalized. The Elite Four have become a joke, barely able to fight the minions of the enemy. Nudist Beach, despite their neat tech, also fail at fighting an effective rebellion. And Mako has been thrown away by her best friend, meaning those comedic "lectures" are now a waste of time....and since Mako is a comedic character, this makes her useless to the plot, since the chances of her being an actual fighter again are nonexistent. Well, she could die I guess...but that would be cheap.

So really what seems like the story is moving toward, is a showdown of the heavyweights: Nui, Satsuki, Ragyo, and Ryuko. It's a bit too DBZ, where everyone sits back and maybe gets some bit parts while the Saiyans get all the spotlight. I'm hoping it doesn't continue down that path.

All in all, I like the role reversal, and I really like how they continue to show that Ragyo was a monster long before she merged with the life fibers. Forget being a mother, she was never a human being. And creating a life from a life fiber womb? I think that's a big clue about the life fibers: humanity isn't just a food source, it's a tool for evolution. In that context, I think Ragyo is more like a hive queen than a harbinger.

Actually, I was feeling like this for a bit at the end of last episode, and for parts of this episode, but I stopped feeling that way rather quickly.

It's true that the elite four can't do much power-wise except for supporting the Champion (trolololol), but they're still doing some important things and are definitely standing out as characters. They're not in a corner just worrying about their friends in order to make their friends look cooler. If this were true we wouldn't have seen Nonon's changed personality as she's showing a much nicer side to the others. We wouldn't be seeing Gamagori/Mako which really made him stand out as a character. Heck, we're even getting small details like the fact that Sanagayama can't watch the video footage with his ability.

They are taking the time to care about their characters and reveal facts about them even if they aren't useful. That's different from what DBZ did (if you didn't really like that aspect of it).

I laughed pretty hard at what Gamagori said to Nonon about Mako's selective hearing.

Also, one problem I had with the show after the reveal was that it took Ryuko (someone that wasn't a human) to show human tendencies, because otherwise Mako wouldn't have changed and been nicer when she was tempted with nice/pretty things. This was immediately resolved because I think one point of this past episode was that Ryuko had already made an effect on the people at Honnouji Academy. They're really acting human, even without someone like her there anymore, and that's interesting, at least to me. People are helping each other out/sacrificing themselves to help their friends escape.

I really like the different sides of whether humans are terrible creatures or kind/loving companions that we've been seeing; though right now, the "nice" side switched with the "mean" side.

[ookamigirl]

Mako was LOL again.
That girl is just awesome!!
Quitting/giving up just doesn't exist for her.
Looks like now everyone is naked.
Just where is this anime going?! ROFL
Yup, Ryuko is out of control and this time without Senketsu.
It's nice to see she has her own strength.
Satsuki joined the nudist beach, kinda funny, yet expected.
Ryuko in Junketsu, the worst possible situation.
How things have changed in such little time..

[Tiberium Wolf]

Humm... In the OP they added the nudist beach clothing and the kendo monkey was added too his MK III. Dunno why they didn't add in the previous OP.

[ChampDream]

so it had come to the worst situation Ryuko wearing Junketsu and Satsuki wearing Senketsu to stop her.
I also was really suprise about Nudist beach having a ship.

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Serial Escalation in action.

The ship looked about as much as they could make a TTGL reference without going overboard. Yes I wrote that just now. But the topper was the pastel-chalked freeze frame of Osaka guy saluting their departure.

[Death Usagi]

Originally Posted by K. Shiruto

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Yeah, shows how Ryuuko's life might have been if her mother in general wasn't such a bitch...

[chrno]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Well, I can assure you I had no access to leaks. The logic of episode 19 lead me to suggest that Satsuki would end up wearing Senketsu:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...25#post5019625

We didn't hear anything about that super-mega-Kamui that was the subject of the last episode. Wonder who is wearing that, if anyone? Ragyo perhaps?

So far we've had the two girls and their mother in the "wedding dress," yet no suitors in sight. Nui might like that job. Mako is the obvious choice as Ryuko's "prince," but I don't see her having much interest in the other two. Nui, on the other hand, seems like an equal-opportunity lesbian.

This show certainly conforms to the "Girls rule while boys drool" philosophy of world affairs.

LOL. Well, the reason I brought this up was because I was looking at some fanart yesterday and it had confirmed things even before the episode aired. So chances are folks saw it coming. Hell, they even did a get up of Satsuki in nudist beach gear. I wrote up some stuff on the spoiler page. Works better so I don't have to spoiler tag everything. Since it's about the same topic. There really isn't much activity over there. I'll just post the link in case anyone wants to toss some responses my way. Maybe we can add some stuff to this page. Gawd it's been years since I linked threads.

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=5028046
Click Me!

Got it.

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by Solace

The only one fully human is Satsuki. Well, biologically speaking anyway. It's like saying Batman is human, which he is if you compare him to people like Superman. He's pretty much a superhuman compared to any regular human though. Satsuki's biology essentially rejects life fibers, she was only able to control Junketsu through sheer force of will. An amazing thing to consider since we just saw what it did to Ryuko.

Ryuko is a human given special powers. Her biological parents are human but she was given life fibers which managed to incorporate their way into her own biology. Think Spiderman, or The Hulk - normal people who became something unique through outside interference.

Nui appears to be inhuman. While her biology mirrors Ryuko's, the method is completely different. Since Nui was "conceived" last, and through an artificial womb constructed of life fibers, it calls into question her patronage. It's likely Ragyo went a step further from her experiment with Ryuko, skipping the human male genes and using her own egg plus life fibers directly.

So to sum up, my guess is this:

Satsuki: Human male and human female, no life fibers. Fully human, but a peak condition one.

Ryuko: Human male and human female, bonded with life fibers. Metahuman (mutant). Originally human but altered through external circumstances.

Nui: Human female and life fibers, half breed. A true hybrid of different species.

Technically only Satsuki and Ryuko would be fully related. Nui would be more like a half sister. And of course since they all have different upbringings, none of them share a family bond except through genetics.

The question I ponder, is when exactly Ragyo decided and managed to successfully merge with the life fibers. Given the flashbacks, it seems she did this after her daughters were born, however her dialogue during the flashback of Ryuko's experiment implies something different.

Yea, I'm going to go on and side with Solace on this one. In context it makes way better sense then other theories regarding this screwed up family tree.

[MCAL]

It's times like this where Satsuki should have been the main character. Ryuuko remains an okay character but she's routine and predictable. And in a show like Kill la Kill, Ryuuko seems pretty meh.

Another decent episode, even if having Ryuuko and Satsuki fight each other again is starting to risk becoming a little rote.

[ukulelembo]

I think that there are currently just two possibilities what happens next.
a) Ryuuko's madness will end in the next episode, after a battle with Satsuki and some mind-waking moment.
b) Ryuuko's madness will continue until nearly end of series, where she will have Vader-like recognition moment and save the day.

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by MCAL

It's times like this where Satsuki should have been the main character. Ryuuko remains an okay character but she's routine and predictable. And in a show like Kill la Kill, Ryuuko seems pretty meh.

Another decent episode, even if having Ryuuko and Satsuki fight each other again is starting to risk becoming a little rote.

Well there are two problems with that.

1) You would have to change the entire tone and dynamics of the whole show.

2) Satsuki was the main character you know very well people would be calling her a blatant Mary Sue.

[TheGrandSage23]

Originally Posted by MCAL

It's times like this where Satsuki should have been the main character. Ryuuko remains an okay character but she's routine and predictable. And in a show like Kill la Kill, Ryuuko seems pretty meh.

Another decent episode, even if having Ryuuko and Satsuki fight each other again is starting to risk becoming a little rote.

Uhh no just no... Ryuko is the only one that showed any type of character progression and development(delinquent to avenger to hero) she's more entertaining to watch than a lot of character on this show.. She's over the top and actually has flaws that she tries to overcome

Satsuki has the Mikasa syndrome (IMO that's not a good thing) she's pretty much the character everyone likes because of badassery... Sorry that trait can only take you so far.. The Elite Four are more interesting than her

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by TheGrandSage23

Satsuki has the Mikasa syndrome (IMO that's not a good thing) she's pretty much the character everyone likes because of badassery... Sorry that trait can only take you so far.. The Elite Four are more interesting than her

the only problem i see with such type of character is when it fails to live up to the hype they provoke. Fortunately Satsuki has more than delivered and has surpassed most expectations so far. Her courage and grip to never give up despite terrible odds is very admirable.

I'm about 4 weeks to realize if i can recover the faith i previously lost on this archetype.

[watanabe43]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

Don't really see a contradiction with Nui not being able to heal her eye, and not being permanent dead from Ryuuko stabbing her.

The scissors are just a 'its very very sharp' thing, not that its made of some kind of life fiber kryptonite. Satsuki probabyl could have finished off Ragyo if her sword was sharp enough to not miss that 1 thread connecting the head, but looks like the heart might be the core anyway.

And Ryuuko just stabbed her. Stabbing isn't the same as cutting. I think if Ryuuko actually made a clean cut separating the heart, Nui would be done.

Er, at the start of the episode Ryuuko sliced her into tiny pieces including right through her other eye? She morphed straight back together.

Originally Posted by AntonKutovoi

"Teki wa... Honnoji ni ari!"
I saw what you did there

I didn't! Please, someone explain...

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Originally Posted by AntonKutovoi

"Teki wa... Honnoji ni ari!"
I saw what you did there

Originally Posted by watanabe43

I didn't! Please, someone explain...

Spoilers for Japanese history and every Sengoku-era story ever?
Akechi Mitsuhide said this before attacking Oda Nobunaga's army at Honnou-ji Temple. (Which Honnouji Academy is a fairly direct reference to.) The line is referenced very often, which is why everyone else made fun of Sanageyama for actually saying it (especially given how he would be the shounen hero in some other series).

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by watanabe43

Er, at the start of the episode Ryuuko sliced her into tiny pieces including right through her other eye? She morphed straight back together.

That was some kind of communication. Or did you not notice that both she and Ragyo were curiously monochrome (outside of Ragyo's rainbow highlights)?

Originally Posted by watanabe43

I didn't! Please, someone explain...

Famous quote by Akechi Mitsuhide, said as he took his army to Honnouji in his successful coup to unseat Oda Nobunaga. Google is your friend.

[watanabe43]

Originally Posted by Endless Knackwurst

Spoilers for Japanese history and every Sengoku-era story ever?
Akechi Mitsuhide said this before attacking Oda Nobunaga's army at Honnou-ji Temple. (Which Honnouji Academy is a fairly direct reference to.) The line is referenced very often, which is why everyone else made fun of Sanageyama for actually saying it (especially given how he would be the shounen hero in some other series).

Ah, I figured it had to be Honnouji related but wasn't aware of the famous line, thanks.