2010-06-29, 10:53 | Link #61 | |
耳をすませば
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Age: 34
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2010-06-29, 11:00 | Link #63 |
♥
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Singapore
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Not intolerable, I was just coming with an example of blatant fanservice and those costumes for Mikuru certainly fit under that category. But yeah Haruhi's level of fanservice is definitely okay compared to some other series, so I guess that was quite a poor example, sorry about that.
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2010-06-29, 11:46 | Link #64 | ||
Hopeless Dreamer
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: On bended knee asking Belldandy to marry me
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I guess I look at it like the different styles of anime (I won't use the loosely defined 'genre') are like ice cream. Miyazaki is like French Vanilla. Always good, always satisfying. You know what you're going to get. Moe/Harem/Slice of Life is like Ben & Jerry's. Oatmeal Cookie Chunk, Karamel Sutra, Neapolitan Dynamite, Strawberry Banana, Key Lime Pie, on and on... They are new and fresh, exciting, inviting, stimulating. They make it so you can't wait to try the next new thing. But then... every once in a while... you just get this feeling that nothing will hit the spot like some good old fashioned French Vanilla. Ahhh... Yes! So good. So satisfying. So familiar. Quote:
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2010-06-29, 12:51 | Link #65 | |
耳をすませば
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Age: 34
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[/random tangent]
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Last edited by Theowne; 2010-06-29 at 14:51. |
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2010-06-29, 13:30 | Link #66 | ||
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
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Such is the level of esteem that most people have of the man that few believe that he was being aloof or arrogant. It's worth wondering, though, why he would make such a distinction. And, as Theowne suggests, I doubt the reasons are as simple as Ghibli movies being more "refined" than pop-culture entertainment anime. If that were the case, my opinion of Miyazaki would be knocked down a peg or two. As this thread stands, we're not getting very much in the way of fruitful discussion. Most of the complaints voiced against anime here are so general that they can be applied to virtually any form of popular entertainment, from pulp-fiction novels to TV soap operas and Hollywood blockbusters. So, if anything, the complaints are more about "popular entertainment" in general than about anime specifically. And the cognitive dissonance stems probably from the mistaken notion that anime is somehow more "elite" than Western entertainment — it never was. It was simply a novelty to those who had first discovered it, relishing in the different approaches to storytelling not usually taken by Western producers. And now that the novelty has worn out, jaded fans start longing for a Golden Age that never was. Heck, if Slice of Life were around, he'd have a thing or two to say about this subject. Personally? I don't really have any "hatred" for the medium or the fans in particular (I was just playing along with james' quip). But I do have plenty of disappointments about the anime industry, from the creators to the production committees and the merchandisers. In general, that has been a bit too much parochialism, and not enough attempts to reach out to a wider global audience, let alone to more mature viewers. Japanese video-game developers have long realised it, so why haven't anime producers? Your young, childish fans do eventually grow up into responsible, working adults. They don't all become otaku. Why isn't more being done to cash in on that wellspring of nostalgia? Let's not forget that the anime that marked a high point in the medium back in the 1990s — Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Cowboy Bepop and so on — had a particular appeal to audiences beyond Japan, precisely because they were very much made with a broader demography in mind. When people like Oshii and Anno moan about a creative dearth in anime, they are referring to that time of creative ferment now apparently "missing" in Japan. To be sure, I don't really think any more that it had gone missing. But it certainly does seem harder to find today. Economic reasons have been cited time and again. I wonder. Perhaps it's more fundamental than that. But such insight is hard to glean from armchair critics. Only the people who work in the industry can really say what's going wrong. Last edited by TinyRedLeaf; 2010-06-29 at 15:16. |
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2010-06-29, 13:32 | Link #67 |
廉頗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 34
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I dislike that a great many anime series have become akin to one big inside joke - they push forward some random elements of 'anime/manga otaku' culture that longtime fans find hilarious/interesting etc but end up isolating casual or new fans.
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2010-06-29, 13:38 | Link #68 | |||
Hopeless Dreamer
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: On bended knee asking Belldandy to marry me
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2010-06-29, 13:44 | Link #69 | ||||||
Asleep Being
Join Date: Nov 2009
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To add some that I'm surprised noone has mentioned before... *) FILLERS!!! ARGH! It's a pain having to check which episodes are worth watching. *) When charachters say things to each other just to inform the viewer what's going on, making their conversation sound extremely inane. People do not generally explain to each other in full detail things they obviously know. I understand it can be difficult to explain the background of what's going on to the viewer, but hey, that's part of the difficulty that comes with writing a good story. Using this stupid device is as disappointing as it is comfortable. *) ENDLESS chatter and taunting during fights. Like SHEESH, GET ON WITH IT! *) People not involved in the fight screaming the hero's name when the enemy uses something dangerous-looking. OMG this drives me nuts. SO GOD DAMN ANNOYING. *) Scenes that have sort of extremely exaggerated HAPPY PEACEFUL SAFE style, you know, sun is shining, birds are singing, everyone is walking around with a huge motherfrauding grin on their face, LOL. Makes my skin crawl. Quote:
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Bottom line is YOU GET THE POINT. People have a certain perception anime and they have certain complaints to make about a big chunk of everything they have seen up to any given point and they would like to be able to do so freely and lightheartedly on an internet forum. Yeah, it would be silly to make sweeping generalisations about all of anime having the same kinds of mistakes but until you see someone actually state that specifically, give people the benefit of doubt and assume that they are talking about anime that they have happened to see thus far. Which, strangely enough, is very often similar for a large number of people, allowing such conversation to generate the satisfaction of knowing that you are not alone in your hate. As in the beginning of my post. Quote:
Some people do go to ridiculous lengths with their bashing, but some people also get upset too easily when anything bad is said about anime. Everything in this thread has been well in line so far as far as I can tell. No need to call the fire brigade to put out a cigarette on the ground. Last edited by Vantek; 2010-06-29 at 14:06. |
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2010-06-29, 14:23 | Link #70 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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What's not to like about anime? It's an incredibly imaginative medium that is only limited by its innovators (and of course socio-economic issues). About the only thing negative that can be said about the medium, is the fact (or at least my opinion) that animated drama will never equal live-action drama (and this is mostly due to the whole valley thing (that is not to say that voice actors/directors/etc cannot help to bridge this gap somewhat)). Besides that, though, anime/animation is filled with amazing potential that, while squandered at times, offers endless entertainment and sometimes more.
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2010-06-29, 14:56 | Link #72 | |
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
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I don't fully agree that the "uncanny valley" is a root cause though. In fact, it may be exactly the opposite. Satoshi Kon — through his movies like Perfect Blue, Millenium Actress and Paprika — best demonstrates this point: Animation, as a medium, is particularly suited for stories with a heavy emphasis on fantasy and surrealism. For all the advances in CG and 3-D technology, live-action movies today still can't quite evoke the sense of realism that effective stop-motion special effects could, precisely because it's very easy for the human eye to spot images or effects that are simply "too perfect to be true". Animation neatly sidesteps the problem, since everything is already set inside an "unreal" environment, rendering the most outlandish effects "plausible" in anime. As one of the designers (I forget his name) of Final Fantasy Advent Children said: "If we don't make it look cool, we might as well not animate this." All this dovetails neatly with a self-critique I have on my desire for anime targeted at older, more "mature" audiences: Is it really healthy for the medium? Perhaps, perhaps not. People like Makoto Shinkai have demonstrated that animation can enhance "mature" romances through "hyper-realism" — Romanticism upped to the nth degree, as seen in 5 Centimetres Per Second, for example. But, at the same time, I've lost count of the number of times my mother asked why movies like Only Yesterday aren't filmed in live-action. Indeed, why not? It's hard to see what animation adds to these stories, grounded so heavily as they are on real-life issues that have impact on real-life people. So, there you go. Much more discussion on such "meta" issues would be interesting. That said, it would be "elitist" of me to make such an argument so, yeah, I won't quibble overly much with Vantek's assertion of snobbery on my part. People are entitled to gripe so, go ahead, vent away. Last edited by TinyRedLeaf; 2010-06-29 at 16:41. |
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2010-06-29, 15:45 | Link #75 |
Ha ha ha ha ha...
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Right behind you.
Age: 35
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What I don't like about anime? Hmm... That it's in japanese? Just kidding.
But seriously, what I don't like about anime (if this even directly related) is the social stigma that tends to follow liking it. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's felt this way. No one makes a big deal about being obsessed with syndicated shows like Lost or NCIS, but if you feel the same way about anime, people think you're weird.
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2010-06-29, 16:07 | Link #76 |
Asleep Being
Join Date: Nov 2009
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I wonder with whom you guys are having these problems with. I would have no problem telling I like anime to most people I know. I do see a hate campaign on the internet by young guys who go to hysterical lengths to seem macho, but that's not something anyone should be affected by.
Only if you are a true fanatic could I see a problem, but that's in no way limited to anime. Sci fi and western comic book fans suffer just as much. |
2010-06-29, 16:25 | Link #77 | |
耳をすませば
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Age: 34
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I don't think it has to always be about physically impossible moments either. Grave of the Fireflies received much more acclaim as an animated film than a live-action production, despite the fact that it also technically didn't need to be one. Yet the fact that it was animated, that the kids were drawings instead of flesh and blood, that the young girl's facial contortions were animated instead of acted, surely these things make a significant difference to the impression a viewer receives from a scene. Essentially, the very fact that it's a stylized portrayal of reality already makes the impression to the viewer very different, something worth exploiting. I find this to be a question that I have a firm answer to, but have some difficulty voicing sensible reasons for. I may return with a longer answer...
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2010-06-29, 16:39 | Link #78 |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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So many things, but the first ones that come to mind are both in-your-face fanservice and moe for the sake of moe.
While the two concepts are not exactly what bothers me, it's when it is particularly clear to me what the makers are trying to do that it annoys me... Any KEY work is very guilty of this, as well as several other harem/moe shows... Shounens tends to be more guilty of the fanservice bit. If they trying to service the fans, I don't want to know that they trying to service me... If not then it feels very unnatural in the story, and just becomes annoying. Same with moe... I don't want them to try and make me think the girl is cute or anything that turns me on and such... It just comes off as horrible story writing... And that's why they inject these elements into these animes, since they don't feel the story and characters alone are enough to make the story. These two things in anime in particular, is something that is wrong with the industry in general. It's quite a rampant issue. These are not the only two things that annoy me about anime, but they are two of the worst. I may come back later and detail my other qualms...
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2010-06-29, 17:10 | Link #79 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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Additionally, it is far more "acceptable", maybe even "realistic", for a childlike animated character to be put in danger or to fall in love, than it is for an actual child to show the same emotions or activities (going back to the recent Karate Kid, the romance subplot between the young Jaden Smith and Wen Wen Han is a little off-putting due to their age (he's 12, and she's supposed to be 12-13)). Can anyone imagine Hanamaru Youchien done with live action? . Last edited by james0246; 2010-06-29 at 17:29. |
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2010-06-29, 17:23 | Link #80 |
blinded by blood
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What I hate:
The overuse of the "moe series." Inappropriately-placed fanservice. Ludicrous product placement. Summer Wars is a good example of product placement done well--logos where you expect to see them, but not Pizza Huts everywhere. Yuri that doesn't actually have any yuri in it. Lazy animators. Inconsistent animators (lolhi DEEN). Adaptation Decay. Shitty endings (lolhi GONZO). "AMERIKKA IS TEH EVULZ HURR." Getting really sick of this one. We get enough of this from our own citizens, we don't need it from other countries! If you're going to portray the gubment as the Big Bad, at least do it well and not in yet another "FUCK BUSH" allegory.
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