Clannad - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[Sorrow-K]

For a penultimate episode, that certainly lacked urgency. It demonstrates a massive difference between Clannad and Kanon that's already been pointed out, in that Clannad is much more a slice-of-life, and doesn't have anywhere near as much of the pathos and heavy drama of its predecessor. Which is fine. As others have said in this thread, it's exploring themes, such as family and loneliness. And the relationship development has been outstanding. All the important characters have changed in ways that are clear. Tomoyo was the obvious example in this episode, but Nagisa was the much more subtle one. A few times they pointed out just how much she's changed since the beginning of the story, but it's worth pointing out again.

I love how so much of the story is told through gestures. A look, a pat on the head, a character staying quiet in a certain situation, so much of the characters can be read from how their body language or their gestures, rather than just what they say. This is an aspect that KyoAni seem to do really well in all their anime. If you just listen to dialogue, you miss a lot of the story, so there's a certain subtlety to the storytelling, but at the same time each of these gestures have a clear meaning, so it's not so overly subtle that things don't make sense.

Well, most things anyway. A minor one, but I have no idea why Kyou stuck out her tongue while they were talking about Tomoyo getting contact lenses.

Anyway, I think it's almost a good thing that the dramatic intensity in this hasn't been as high as we typically see in Key stories. A heavy plot-twist now will just be jarring. It's a very different anime from Kanon, and that's all there is to it.

A minor criticism... the not-terribly-explicit fanservice towards the beginning of the episode really felt out of place. It reminded me of that scene in the first episode of Kanon where they showed Nayuki in a bra for some reason that made no sense. It's like KyoAni has to have a nonchalant fanservice scene once every season. I mean, I can understand a bit of fanservice when they're playing it for laughs, eg, all those jokes in Haruhi, and the scene where Kyou and Tomoya got trapped in the storeroom. But these types of scenes are just confusing. It's like they're saying "here, have a fanservice scene, but it doesn't really serve any purpose, so just pretend you don't notice"...

[brocko]

Originally Posted by Sorrow-K

A minor criticism... the not-terribly-explicit fanservice towards the beginning of the episode really felt out of place. It reminded me of that scene in the first episode of Kanon where they showed Nayuki in a bra for some reason that made no sense. It's like KyoAni has to have a nonchalant fanservice scene once every season. I mean, I can understand a bit of fanservice when they're playing it for laughs, eg, all those jokes in Haruhi, and the scene where Kyou and Tomoya got trapped in the storeroom. But these types of scenes are just confusing. It's like they're saying "here, have a fanservice scene, but it doesn't really serve any purpose, so just pretend you don't notice"...

I totally agree with you on this point and it just feels really out of place. I guess the animators felt they had to give the fanboys something in return due to their favoured heroines lack of screentime during these past few eps.

[Leo_Otaku]

Kyo ani is known for showing the scenes nobody really does animate. Like piro using his litter box and so forth .....

[Aquifina]

Originally Posted by Sorrow-K

I love how so much of the story is told through gestures. A look, a pat on the head, a character staying quiet in a certain situation, so much of the characters can be read from how their body language or their gestures, rather than just what they say. This is an aspect that KyoAni seem to do really well in all their anime. If you just listen to dialogue, you miss a lot of the story, so there's a certain subtlety to the storytelling, but at the same time each of these gestures have a clear meaning, so it's not so overly subtle that things don't make sense.

I also noticed the subtle gestures. That look Tomoyo gave Tomoya right after she entered the room, and then her comments to Nagisa about her being glad that she was the one, or something to that effect. Also, Tomoyo's glance at Nagisa. It was all very well done, and it makes me happy that I stuck with the series, even though I found some of it a bit much in the early going.

[todkapuz]

I really liked some of the little details they threw in this episode to make me smile.

I dunno... a little sad that AS will not make an appearance in the main line, but I think, honestly, that ending the series with the play is the right choice for what they are trying to do... so to that end, the elements that we got in this episode are perfect...

Well I dunno.. the fan-service part right after the OP.. not sure hehe but the shock of her having not seen a play before was funny poor Ossan. Of course without the AS, we're going to miss out a bit of his story... but it's nice we're starting to flesh him out more....

The discovery scene was perfect to me.. even if Nagisa doesnt understand .... and the line from Sanae-san.

[Ketro]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Pacing is fine... if they didn't have ONE EPISODE LEFT.

*cough*

But besides that, good episode. Akio was, as usual, amazing. I love the way he greets Nagisa when she comes home from school.

Though I still fail to see how they're going to conclude anything properly within ONE EPISODE.

Yeah, Im thinking that too, its going to be really hard to cram in all that stuff in that last episode. When is episode 22 coming out anyways?

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Ketro

Yeah, Im thinking that too, its going to be really hard to cram in all that stuff in that last episode. When is episode 22 coming out anyways?

Next... Thursday?

[MaxwellDemon]

Personally I think this episode wasn't as much of a waste as some people had blogged about. The moment when Tomoyo said that she was glad it was Nagisa instead, it wrapped most of the arcs up in a very fine sense to me.

Of course, I can understand how most people think next episode will be a total flop, especially if they know what happens in the game. Disregarding the details however in the games, I am sure KyoAni could end this in a satisfying notes. Of course, I am afraid it just won't be something everyone would be happy about.

[acrana]

Originally Posted by Sorrow-K

For a penultimate episode, that certainly lacked urgency. It demonstrates a massive difference between Clannad and Kanon that's already been pointed out, in that Clannad is much more a slice-of-life, and doesn't have anywhere near as much of the pathos and heavy drama of its predecessor. Which is fine. As others have said in this thread, it's exploring themes, such as family and loneliness. And the relationship development has been outstanding. All the important characters have changed in ways that are clear. Tomoyo was the obvious example in this episode, but Nagisa was the much more subtle one. A few times they pointed out just how much she's changed since the beginning of the story, but it's worth pointing out again.

I love how so much of the story is told through gestures. A look, a pat on the head, a character staying quiet in a certain situation, so much of the characters can be read from how their body language or their gestures, rather than just what they say. This is an aspect that KyoAni seem to do really well in all their anime. If you just listen to dialogue, you miss a lot of the story, so there's a certain subtlety to the storytelling, but at the same time each of these gestures have a clear meaning, so it's not so overly subtle that things don't make sense.

Well, most things anyway. A minor one, but I have no idea why Kyou stuck out her tongue while they were talking about Tomoyo getting contact lenses.

Anyway, I think it's almost a good thing that the dramatic intensity in this hasn't been as high as we typically see in Key stories. A heavy plot-twist now will just be jarring. It's a very different anime from Kanon, and that's all there is to it.

A minor criticism... the not-terribly-explicit fanservice towards the beginning of the episode really felt out of place. It reminded me of that scene in the first episode of Kanon where they showed Nayuki in a bra for some reason that made no sense. It's like KyoAni has to have a nonchalant fanservice scene once every season. I mean, I can understand a bit of fanservice when they're playing it for laughs, eg, all those jokes in Haruhi, and the scene where Kyou and Tomoya got trapped in the storeroom. But these types of scenes are just confusing. It's like they're saying "here, have a fanservice scene, but it doesn't really serve any purpose, so just pretend you don't notice"...

That is the thing though, Clannad does have lot of drama (Its mostly in After story that the big is remember school life isnt the end of the story). But I guess since they figured they dont have that many episodes to do it theyll just end it this way.

[KholdStare]

I think that it is very important to just drop the Kanon vs. Clannad comparison now, or else we will be very disappointed. It is so obvious that episode 22 of Clannad is going to be much less dramatic than the ending of Kanon, and also, the overall feeling of Clannad is more relaxing, euphoric, and comedic than the feeling of Kanon. Let's think through this logically. If Kanon didn't exist, or the visual novel didn't exist, how good would this episode be? Some of you mentioned how subtlety, such as gestures and combination of different arcs, is an important aspect in Clannad, moving the plot along in a slow and carefree way. Well, that's Clannad. Forget Kanon; I expect Clannad to end on a soft note with a slight touch of drama. Forget the game; I expect the anime to not follow it. Clannad is Clannad, and I didn't go into Nodame Cantabile's last episode thinking how it better be the same as the last episode of Shakugan no Shana.

And the fanservice is there for those who wants to notice it. I personally did not, because I was so absorbed into its subtle suspense and great storytelling. I love pretty much everything about this anime, and the last thing I want to happen is for it to attempt to be something it's not.

Just my thoughts. ~

[Mirrinus]

Like I've been saying all along, people will either complain that it's too much like Kanon, or it's not enough like Kanon.

Just watch it for what it is, not for what it is not.

*praying for a second season for the After Story*

Although in my cynicism, I'm content with moving on.

[ZXValaRevan]

I found it without any particular flaw, or part I disliked. The minor fanservice got a giggle or two out of me, and the rest of the episode followed regular Clannad brilliance. 10/10

But it does seem like there's not enough time left.

[Codine]

Wow only 22 episodes? Ending feels like its going to be rushed. I was kind of hoping for more from this anime. There were so many characters but they cleared their arcs in a few episodes and wasted like half of them on the most minor character of all. Oh well all that I'm asking for in 22 is that Sunohara gets smacked around some more.

[KholdStare]

Interestingly, I think that Kyou is the only person who calls Youhei "Youhei." It's just a fun fact that I just realized this episode for some weird reason. But of course, Kyou calls everyone by their first name (without honorifics), so never mind.

And Youhei is by far one of the best supporting characters I've seen in any anime. This is one of the reason why I love Clannad. Its slow pace makes it possible to explore many of the characters without leaving one in the dark somehow. Even though many of you complain that some of the arcs were rushed, I feel like I know everything that needs to be known about Kyou/Ryou/Tomoyo, and that nothing is left out.

[viny]

Spoiler for episode 21:

Nagisa:I've never seen a play before...

LOLZ

pretty good episode in general. Not much NagisaXTomoya though...

Love how this episode endned with

Spoiler for episode 21:

Nagisa finding out abt her parents' past

[ZODDGUTS]

Decent episode didn't have that big impact at the end though just didn't feel it.

Also have to say that so far I have found Clannad to be fairly dissaponting. I really liked Air and Kannon but with Clannad I found it to be rather lacking in something that those two series had.

Sure the first 12 episodes for Kannon not much happened but it paid off big time in the 2nd half of the series when things started rolling because all of the characters were already well developed. But in Clannad nothing as big has happened and haven't found all the arcs to be all that great Fuko's arc lasted too long, Kotomi's arc was alright I guess but didn't comapre to any of the arcs to the other series, Tomoyo arc was rather short didn't have much impact and so far Nagisa's arc doesn't really affect me much.

And with only one more episode left doubt it will change my mind as to how I feel about this series. Not to say it's bad it just doesn't compare to that "epic" emotinal roller coaster to Air and Kanon.

[Zenemis]

Clannad was never meant to be a depressing show; I think you might be looking for something that was never intended.

[ZODDGUTS]

Originally Posted by Zenemis

Clannad was never meant to be a depressing show; I think you might be looking for something that was never intended.

I guess you may be right. But the series lead me to believe otherwise that this series would be a drama especially because of Fuko arc since there was a lot of drama in it so early on especially compared to Kannon which nothing much happened in the first 12 episodes...

[Yukinokesshou]

I don't really understand all the enthusiasm about Kanon. Why is it placed on a pedestal, and everything measured against it? Honestly speaking, I didn't enjoy Kanon that much. Don't get me wrong, I like drama. I loved Air TV and 1 Litre of Tears, for instance.

But... the drama in Kanon just didn't touch me at all. It seemed forced and artificial in a "one girl done, next girl, moving on" sort of way, and then one miracle solves EVERYTHING. I cringed whenever Yuuichi shouted "Ayu, AYU, AYUUUU" in the first adaptation (5 times? or more?). The Kyo Ani adaptation was more understated and beautiful but there was only so much Kyo Ani could do to what - in my opinion - was a mediocre plot. It's one of those series I can watch only once. I watched Air three times, and I think I've already watched episodes 1-19 of Clannad twice!

Then and again, from what I've read, I think the drama in Clannad's After Story beats all of them hands down... so I must say I'm a tad disappointed

lim (Clannad + After Story / Kanon) = infinity

[Shiori-chan]

enjoyed this episode and was really moved by how everybody helps nagisa (in some way) to make her play a succes, and nagisa doing all what she can to make a nice play, hopefully for her she can forget what she saw in the end of this episode or tomoya cheering her up or something