2010-01-09, 12:38
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sleepyhead
 Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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Animesuki v3 Wishlist
Well GHDpro seems to be working on v3 for the main site (as he announced a while ago), so I figure its pretty harmless to throw in some ideas to pollute the think-tank. /joke
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2010-01-10, 09:13
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Administrator
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Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Netherlands
Age: 45
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My current focus is to get AnimeSuki v3 operational as soon as I can find the time to finish it. This means I'll try to focus on duplicating existing functionality only, and not add more features, apart from the ones I was already tinkering with or which are a piece of cake to implement.
But after v3 is operational, I can work on it further to expand functionality. Of course, that's what I said about v2 too, 5 years ago  Quote:
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2010-01-10, 23:46
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sleepyhead
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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Basically... you have this,  Everything one-lined, with the most minimal of information. What I'm asking is you have a alternative/switch there to turn it into something like this: Spoiler for I made to be fluid, so its kinda wide:
Basically, a listing with every piece of data you have on said torrent (like most sites do it). I dumped everything you have (that's shown) on all your pages for said torrents, to show you it can be done =P Ignore the silly way of classifying genre (ie. those small tags with letters 3px at most), initially I though there wouldn't be enough space to add em' all so decided it was best to A) replace the long ones with the shortest related word, and B) split all the (meaningful) ones into two groups (group entries being close to mutually exclusive), each torrent showing only most significant part there of for each of the 2 groups. But, as you can see there is enough space to list pretty much all the categories you want for each series... (oh and I know the left side is kinda crowded; I didn't bother to make it perfect) One thing thats worth mentioning. When making the listing like this, you make all the text in it links to filters (they don't have to look like links though). Example behavior:
This would probably fairly easier if the format for links was slightly more friendly. You now use stuff like this:
By "friendly" I mean stuff like this:
Well this a little too much I guess (given what you said earlier) so you might not even consider it until like version 5 (lol), but I suppose its worth mentioning (for the moment). ================ If it helps here's code to make the example above. Its crappy butchered togheter code I ducked-tapped here and there to work =P since I was only interested in making the example for this post... but better then no code I suppose. (at least it will keep xris off my back) Spoiler for space:
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2010-01-11, 03:12
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Just call me Ojisan
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: U.K. Hampshire
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2010-01-11, 03:27
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Netherlands
Age: 45
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I agree with xris that the listing format you propose would make it very hard to read. I'd prefer The SubWire's solution to this "problem".
v3 will use friendly URLs btw. The URL to K-On's series page will be this: www.animesuki.com/series/K-On! And the same goes for groups. The details pages won't change much. I could stuff them with keywords (something like animesuki.com/details/34343/K-On!_Ep_6) but that would greatly inflate the size of pages (as a link to the details page is in every line of the listing). The other change from your listing I already implemented is that magnet links will be displayed in the listing, not hidden on the details pages. I suppose I should finish some of the rudimentary functionality that is still missing soon so that I can make the test site public for anyone to play around with. |
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2010-01-11, 08:32
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sleepyhead
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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 Though I suppose most of the time when its used the title and links just cover the top row and everything bottom row (no columns). Not counting the way of writing a lists with information going top/down (eg. google, youtube, digg, twitter etc etc etc) you still have... [see list in deleted post]. Its hardly the "there's nobody out there who likes it but you" thing you want to make it out to be. But I suppose it is a "what you are used to" thing.Quote:
SubWire's solution is somewhat fine too. My problems with it is I don't like too much when a site throws things like pop-ups, messages or something like those widgets that stick to one of the screen sides (those are particularly annoying). Well I'm sure you understand since you deal with them for the main site ads already. In the case of SubWire its mostly the pop-up spam. I kinda feel annoying (presuming I'm focusing my screen on the listing) that I have to be careful not to trigger it (mouse mindminefield is what I think its called). The hole process seems counter productive as well. Think of it this way, to do that with (forsay) what you have now you have to click the link; in the case of the pop-up you have to hold your mouse of a specific area, wait for the AJAX to kick in (which is itself a problem) and hold it there while you read... seems like a lot of work compared to just clicking on it or having it like I suggested just there in the listing (as an alternative selectable view). Hm, somewhat only partially related, but are you planing on adding series images? (like they have there) Don't get me wrong I think the pop-up thing is cool, its just too overused there for comfort. The series name is the worst place in my opinion to place the hover effect on as well; its what we identify as the id of the entry and a lot like to do (be it consciously or not) place their mouse pointer over it (to focus better I guess). Probably limiting the trigger to one little icon to the side of the screen, something like a ? symbol, the triggering area going from very small to activate to big to deactivate. And also have it time delayed so just moving your move across the screen while say scrolling (drag scroll) or some other random movement doesn't trigger it. After first activation the delay turns off so you can just move to next uninterrupted but kicks back in if you are not viewing anything for a certain period. That should eliminate some of the annoying issues with it... (I'd suggest click to show/hide but that sort of defeats the purpose of having it to being with as well)
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2010-01-11, 09:09
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Netherlands
Age: 45
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The URL to the v3 test site isn't supposed to be public just yet. The main reason is that the site is far from finished and when I'm working on it things might break or change without notice.
But since you find the link already (it's arguably easy to guess), feel free to log in and check things out. Now to comment on your publicly visible post - I personally don't mind 2-line listings if done properly. In fact you can already see the v3 test site supports 2-line listings if you log in, go to "Settings" and select the second option for "Style". While only 3 styles are supported right now (and two of them are nearly identical) it's possible to add more. However the example you gave seems like heavy information overload. There is a lot of info that is duplicated for each torrent for each series that IMHO doesn't belong in the torrent listing. As alternative to clicking through to the series page (inconvenient?) or a pop-up (annoying?) I could make the listing expand in a way similar to IsoHunt or Fanzub (click one of the "Details" links to see what I mean). That way you can optionally see the info you want without leaving the page (though it does require an extra click). As for series images... I'm thinking about it. But series images have the same problem as the images from the Upcoming anime section of the wiki, namely who is going to add them? Although linking to the wiki in this case would avoid the staff having to upload all the images. |
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2010-01-11, 09:56
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sleepyhead
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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I guess "inconvenient" is the right word. I'm not really the "otaku" type of anime fan, I just know the series I like, not everyone there is (its normal for me to forget the ones I don't like even though I might have watched a few episodes of it at some point). So for example I would often look at at the entry and want to know what type of show it is. Seems a tad much to go to a hole other page (and obviously subsequently back) for what is 2-3 words of metadata (ie. Romance, Comedy and such). Same thing with if I want to know if this is a new show I didn't hear about yet or some old one (ie. looking for vintage or forum links or other links). Magnet links were also separated on a special torrent page (other then the listing), but that's fixed now. Um... I think the easiest way to explain it is to say think of what it would be like if the seed/peer numbers where on the torrent's page; to be honest I place about the same emphasis on seed/peer compared to what I just mentioned (vintage/genre/etc).
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2010-01-12, 23:04
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sleepyhead
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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+1
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2010-01-13, 03:42
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(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
 Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Basically what I'm reading here is that you think we should only have the series information page as a place to find additional torrent links? Everything else you've added in to the main page listing in your idea essentially makes the series page for each title otherwise useless. Why even bother keeping the series page if it's just going to be an archive for old torrents and nothing else useful?
On another note, I find the Fanzub solution annoying. Not just for the screen shifting each time details is clicked, but because it's easy to lose sight of the item you were checking out in the first place before readjusting to the collapsed list. I don't mind clicks for more information, provided there is an easy path right back to where I was. Luckily with tabbed browsing that's generally not a problem. In regards to the genre ideas, we're not out to be a site like AniDB, although we do provide links to many sites so interested people can find out more about any series if they desire to. Beyond giving a general idea of the genres, or a fair warning if the content is "risky" enough (like Aki Sora), I see no reason to create subdivisions of the same category. Now if you were to suggest a new category like "genderbender", I could get behind that, as there are many anime that we could list under that tag (and lately there seems to be at least one or two each season). On the other hand, looking at our current genre categories they are a little...odd. Why do we have a Vampire category but not a Werewolf one, for instance? There's certainly room for some refinement and uniformity and removal of the more random genres, but that does require a lot of work going through our series database to update everything once that's all ironed out. A daunting project, to say the least.
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2010-01-13, 04:06
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Link #12 |
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Netherlands
Age: 45
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I'm not keen on making huge changes to the genre system as it is now - I want to wait with that until after I get v3 operational as it's going to be quite a bit of work. The way I envision such a change would at least involve ordinary users being able to edit genres, so that the staff doesn't have to do all of it.
As for Aki Sora - we do actually have an Adult genre for series that go a bit beyond "ecchi". Aki Sora was not tagged "Adult" yet, but I've done so now. Btw, Gantz would have also been listed on that page if it wasn't licensed. As for why we have a "Vampire" genre but no "Werewolf" one - compared to anime series with vampires, how many series with werewolves do you know? Plus (originally at least) we also tried to limit the amount of genres - vampires are fairly common, werevoles (at least at the time the list was last edited) were not (no pun intended). Having said that, it doesn't mean we can't make any changes to the genres as they are now - and I"m all for a "Genderbender" genre. Should that include cases where a character is fully transformed into another gender (like "Kashimashi" or "Birdy Decode") or merely dresses like one (like "Otome wa Boku ni Koishiteru" or "Maria+Holic" and countless others)? |
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2010-01-13, 04:30
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(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
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For example, Tomoki in Sora no Otoshimono turns into a girl for one episode, but it's not much more than a gag. On the other hand, Akemiya from Sasemeki Koto has a crush on the main character in the story and plays a role in several episodes. So both are technically gender bender, but to varying degrees. I don't think it would be fair to someone interested in gender benders to be misled into thinking the whole series is about the subject, when in reality it's only for a few episodes at the most. If we could make a distinction, like "the gender bender appears in episode 13", then maybe but that's more work than I think we should go through. Clear cut, obvious cases like Maria Holic or Kashimashi would be a good enough starting point. Sites with specific listings exist for those people really interested in the subject where specific, limited instances of gender bending occur (like the Tomoki and Akemiya examples I mentioned previously, for instance). I don't think we need to go down that road, so I'd personally rather see the tag only used for series where the gender bender plays a significant role in the story.
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2010-01-13, 09:21
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sleepyhead
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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I rather not use multiple tabs if I don't need to. Its easier for me to click Backspace rather then Ctrl+W or Ctrl+Tab. One click for the extra line of info sounds fair trade.
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How about instead of allowing people to edit the series, have it all as a per episode rating system. It could be just extra meta available in the main listing though a click like the idea from earlier. Nothing special just a 5 rating and a pick on category (ie. genre for the episode). All series not just forum ones can benefit from the rating/poll thing per episode if its done like this, not just the with-forum ones (and we can get rid of the polls in episode threads too tehehe). The series genre is then determined dynamically from those (ie. you then have accurate rating of the intensity of said genre as well). For example, usually you would have "comedy"/"romance" which is ambiguous if this is a good series to watch for laughs or a non-goofy romance; however if you look at the rating and see romance got 170 votes and comedy got 30 votes (counting totals from aired episodes), its pretty clear what it is. I really think you should not allow more the one choice for genre per user, for accuracy sake. When given multiple choice the interpretation is usually to pick everything that fits even if there's only 10 seconds of footage to motivate it (which I have to agree with Solace is a pretty bad for a genre pick). Also as for "what genre's we should have?" can we have a user pick please? =P This is anime so the usual ones, which are classfied as "vague categories with no fixed boundaries" anyway, apply even less for us. The extremes to which anime go doesn't help either. Quote:
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2010-01-13, 12:13
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Netherlands
Age: 45
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I don't see allowing any user to edit genres as major problem. First, when editing genres the user should be informed that any genres he picks should apply to the majority of episodes, and should also not be spoilers (like tagging Utewarerumono or Scrapped Princess as "science fiction"). If anyone finds that another user has not followed these rules, they can change the genres back to whatever they feel is right. If that in turn leads to an "edit war" the editing of genres for that series can be locked (like Wikipedia) to only allow mods/admins to make changes. What you propose just makes things more complicated.
As for which genres to have - for now they're fairly fixed but if genres should become user editable, I suppose we should be more lenient. That still doesn't mean anyone can just create a genre when they feel like it, otherwise it'll be a mess. Basically, if it makes sense (like maybe a "Werewolf" genre) then we could add it. Having peaked briefly at how AniDB handles "categories" as they call them, maybe having a "genre weight" is a good idea. For example for "Negima!?" the "vampire" genre is valid, but it's not a major plot element, unlike say "Vampire Knight". Then again, I'm not sure if it's wise to speculate on a feature I probably won't get around implementing for a while yet. |
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2010-01-13, 13:26
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Good-Natured Asshole.
Join Date: May 2007
Age: 34
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Please keep in mind that if you're hosting series information, it's almost guaranteed to be inferior to the likes of Wikipedia, Anime News Network, and MyAnimeList. I advise links to the above instead. Nothing beyond the amount of episodes, which is actually useful for a tracker.
I really don't want the listing to change dynamically, as OP suggested. I'm just generally wary of dynamic page content, and there is little need to do this when you can just hit the search button again with specific genres checked or unchecked. Is it possible to just have users tag series? You can mandate some keywords like "Adult/Ecchi", "Romance", "Comedy", "Blood/Violence", etc., but "vampire"? |
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2010-01-13, 14:19
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(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Personally I'd rather see fixed genre categories, which is why I edged away from saying "all genderbender, even if it's just for an episode". Otherwise you end up with cloud tags like this: http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl...anime&aid=6441 Sure if you weight the entries it's not so bad, but many of those tags aren't even remotely acceptable for descriptive purposes. I'm all for refinement of our current genre tags but I have personal issue with users tagging content. To be perfectly frank, I've yet to see a tagging system that doesn't end up bloated with useless junk.
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2010-01-13, 14:53
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Spoilaphobic
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Age: 37
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It would be helpful if it was easier to go to a series' page from the torrent link. That little button all the way on the right is a pain.
It'd be cool if there was a pop up when you hover over it, giving you more info. That would help simplify the basic layout when you first load the page too. I think that linking to sites such as AniDB or MAL is best too.
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2010-01-13, 15:00
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sleepyhead
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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2010-01-13, 15:23
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(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
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