Aquarion Series: Genesis-to-EVOL Speculation/spoiler discussion thread

[MUAHAHAHAHAHA]

Originally Posted by Vena

Did I miss a line somewhere because I don't recall him stating he hates love? Mykage hates treachery and treacherous love.

And, to be fair, that's not beyond an understandable dislike/hatred. It's not like he was completely unjustified in killing Jin either even if his actions regarding the last son reek of petty vengeance. Jin's duty was a sacred one for his planet, and Mykage was proud of his success... but then (!) Jin betrays that duty and Mykage's expectations and come flying back to save his friends and close the portal (ie. the only way he had for returning to Altair and bringing the desperately needed Eve to restore their dying planet).

As it is, from Mykage's point of view, Jin betrayed his entire planet for a girl, and that pissed him off.

I wonder about that...I don't get the feeling that Mykage cares much about Altair's fate.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by Zuul

^^

There are strong suspicions it'll happen in episode 15. And I'm betting on it.

It happening only at the end would be a waste of good character development for Amata.

Mykage does ship MikonoxKagura because he needs this love for his goals. He hates all other pairings though.

Actually Amata can develop a bunch of ways even without Kagura, because his character is a more open one.

Kagura on the other hand not so much.

Mykage shipping anyone should be suspicious.

Originally Posted by Vena

Did I miss a line somewhere because I don't recall him stating he hates love? Mykage hates treachery and treacherous love.

And, to be fair, that's not beyond an understandable dislike/hatred. It's not like he was completely unjustified in killing Jin either even if his actions regarding the last son reek of petty vengeance. Jin's duty was a sacred one for his planet, and Mykage was proud of his success... but then (!) Jin betrays that duty and Mykage's expectations and come flying back to save his friends and close the portal (ie. the only way he had for returning to Altair and bringing the desperately needed Eve to restore their dying planet).

As it is, from Mykage's point of view, Jin betrayed his entire planet for a girl, and that pissed him off.

Actions speak louder than words, remember what he did to Donar and his girlfriend? He didn't even know them. Plus the way how he just takes pleasure in messing with the people who are in love during the series?

Mykage is the enemy of love.

[LastOrder]

Spoiler for Episode 14 Mykage and Fudo:

Does anyone find it peculiar, that Mykage was doing the same burial thing to Kagura, as Fudo was doing to the students? But then again, he was watching them closely from his realm of flowers. And I guess he knew what Fudo tried to do, but Mykage probably did it to get Kagura in there after Mikono used her power.

[Vena]

Originally Posted by MUAHAHAHAHAHA

I wonder about that...I don't get the feeling that Mykage cares much about Altair's fate.

I don't doubt this but he seems to be especially pissy about getting betrayed, and he did seem to at least see Jin in a somewhat good light earlier.

Originally Posted by wisteria233

Actions speak louder than words, remember what he did to Donar and his girlfriend? He didn't even know them. Plus the way how he just takes pleasure in messing with the people who are in love during the series?

The thing is, Mykage mucks with everyone be they in love, comrades, or even someone with whom he was once friends(?). He's just that sort of personality. I don't particularly think he hates love so much as he has an agenda and anything that can further it is of use to him be it: taking Donar's girl, sending Jin's closest followers to their deaths, killing Jin for his betrayal, or toying with Kagura.

If anything, I think he finds love beautiful but in a perverse way and that perversion comes off in his actions when it comes to how he behaves. To put it simply: he loves the suffering that is brought about by love and its untimely conclusion. He takes special pleasure in this with Kagura, using it to manipulate the dog-boy.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by Vena

I don't doubt this but he seems to be especially pissy about getting betrayed, and he did seem to at least see Jin in a somewhat good light earlier.

He has already outright stated that he doesn't care about Altair's fate, in an earlier episode.

The thing is, Mykage mucks with everyone be they in love, comrades, or even someone with whom he was once friends(?). He's just that sort of personality. I don't particularly think he hates love so much as he has an agenda and anything that can further it is of use to him be it: taking Donar's girl, sending Jin's closest followers to their deaths, killing Jin for his betrayal, or toying with Kagura.

If anything, I think he finds love beautiful but in a perverse way and that perversion comes off in his actions when it comes to how he behaves. To put it simply: he loves the suffering that is brought about by love and its untimely conclusion. He takes special pleasure in this with Kagura, using it to manipulate the dog-boy.

funny considering he didn't speak about love as though it was a good thing. Rather he speaks of it as something that makes you weaker.

The simple fact that he outright mocks anyone, or tries to destroy the love of those around him speaks volumes and says that Mykage dislikes the idea of love. Heck Donar might not have even been the first time it did it in this series.

Though again the fact that Fudo also has to ban love to ward him off says a lot.

[Vena]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

He has already outright stated that he doesn't care about Altair's fate, in an earlier episode.

I never said otherwise, and was in agreement with the person I'd quoted.

Originally Posted by wisteria233

funny considering he didn't speak about love as though it was a good thing. Rather he speaks of it as something that makes you weaker.

The simple fact that he outright mocks anyone, or tries to destroy the love of those around him speaks volumes and says that Mykage dislikes the idea of love. Heck Donar might not have even been the first time it did it in this series.

Though again the fact that Fudo also has to ban love to ward him off says a lot.

Where did I say it had to be a good thing? To find something beautiful does not mean it has to be good or to make someone stronger. You can find something quite evil to be beautiful, you could find the burning of Rome a beautiful sight. The latter, phrased differently, is where I think Mykage stands on love. He loves to watch it burn.

Let's also not forget that he doesn't try to kill Yunoha or Jin until after the latter's betrayal (and its not like they weren't already quite clearly in love with each other even before that), he didn't even mock them (unless I'm forgetting something?) and was seemingly quite happy that Jin was accomplishing his task. He only goes *bad* on them when Jin betrays him and Mykage is quite clear that he's pissed off about the treachery. (Now, you can say that Mykage's actions with the communicator were probably not a push in the right direction but, at the same time, neither was Jin keeping his secret for too long.)

His actions with Kagura are of a similar tone: he's fueling Kagura's lustful but self-destructive desires to be reunited with Mikono. He's not encouraging a good relationship but he's also seemingly quite thrilled at the prospect of watching Kagura's love burn itself out in a blaze of glory. If he hated love, I doubt he'd go about it in such an elaborate and flamboyant way. (Similarly for Donar, he watched their love blossom and then shredded it such that he could savor that final moment. Like I said, his view on love is perverse, and he doesn't so much respect the relationship as its death throes.)

Then again, he may just be a bitter old man and loves to crush people's relationships because he cannot have one himself.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by Vena

Where did I say it had to be a good thing? To find something beautiful does not mean it has to be good or to make someone stronger. You can find something quite evil to be beautiful, you could find the burning of Rome a beautiful sight. The latter, phrased differently, is where I think Mykage stands on love. He loves to watch it burn.

Let's also not forget that he doesn't try to kill Yunoha or Jin until after the latter's betrayal (and its not like they weren't already quite clearly in love with each other even before that), he didn't even mock them (unless I'm forgetting something?) and was seemingly quite happy that Jin was accomplishing his task. He only goes *bad* on them when Jin betrays him and Mykage is quite clear that he's pissed off about the treachery. (Now, you can say that Mykage's actions with the communicator were probably not a push in the right direction but, at the same time, neither was Jin keeping his secret for too long.)

His actions with Kagura are of a similar tone: he's fueling Kagura's lustful but self-destructive desires to be reunited with Mikono. He's not encouraging a good relationship but he's also seemingly quite thrilled at the prospect of watching Kagura's love burn itself out in a blaze of glory. If he hated love, I doubt he'd go about it in such an elaborate and flamboyant way. (Similarly for Donar, he watched their love blossom and then shredded it such that he could savor that final moment. Like I said, his view on love is perverse, and he doesn't so much respect the relationship as its death throes.)

Then again, he may just be a bitter old man and loves to crush people's relationships because he cannot have one himself.

I think that the real reason was because if Jin brought Yunoha back with him, she would have died anyway, and thus he would end up miserable, which Mikage finds delicious. But by not bringing her back he spared her life, and on her request too, making it an act of love, and gave them a real chance of a happy ending, which is probably what really pissed him off.

[Mangaka-chan]

Originally Posted by Vena

(Now, you can say that Mykage's actions with the communicator were probably not a push in the right direction but, at the same time, neither was Jin keeping his secret for too long.)

I agree that Mykage has a penchant for toying around with lovers and turning love stories into tragedies. Mykage once said "love is the root of sin", and twisting love to hate or sorrow seems to be his aim. (I'm just waiting for Mykage to do something to Zessica. Wouldn't be surprised if and when he does something to her ).

I'm not sure why Mykage transported Jin's device so that Yunoha could find it though. One the one hand he could be trying to interfere with their relationship by introducing some doubt into Yunoha's trust of Jin. But on the other hand I feel like even if Yunoha hadn't known Jin was working for the enemy before he kidnapped her she still would've forgiven him, given her personality. Maybe when Mykage saw that his plan hadn't worked out and Jin had sided with Neo DEAVA the next best thing was to either kill Yunoha or Jin to get what he wanted, which was another tragic love story.

[Arya]

I found Mykage Killing Jin at least odd. I mean he waited him to seal the gate before killing him. So I guess his true target was to leave Kagura on Vega first. Surely Fudo lost his self control. He looked pretty shocked, but it is really hard to guess why. Does he know something big about Jin that we don't? or maybe he foresaw the likely consequences (Altair retaliations) of Jin's death.
I still think that Mykage couldn't care less about Altair and so about Jin (& Yunoha love). So for now I stick with what I can see (more or less ), he closes the door to Kagura and he killed the last hope of Altair, letting himself the chance to blaming Deava for that. And at the same time he put Altair in despair, forcing them to depend more on him and Kagura.

[mayumi]

i personally think even though it might be grasping at straws, that mikage knew zen would do the mikono being holy saint mary and connect everyone with the earth cause jin is dead and needs to be burried and hence seeing where aquarion is. had kagura some how teleported there so kagura can have a looksy and perhaps a chance to steal mikono next episode.

[cyberdemon]

I have a bit of a slight change in thought concerning Apollo's reincarnation:

Spoiler for reincarnation:

The interview said that the, "The heart, the soul and the body are different". Silvia and Sirius were just souls that had split but the way this is said makes it seem more... unnatural.

It kind of backs up the idea that Apollo and Kagura are both reincarnations that were separated at some point. Amata is likely the heart that has lost it's body which is why he lacks a smell to Kagura's nose. Kagura is the body that lacks a heart and soul. 2 being that were probably separated after birth. But that leaves who the soul is.

This is just a thought but what if the soul is Fudou Zen. Say while Apollo's body died at the end of the original series his soul continued to go on. Eventually he took on the identity of Fudou Zen. Or perhaps Gen was the soul of Apollonius which is why Apollo never naturally had memories of his past life except for when he came into contact with that feather. and after the battle Apollo's part and gen's part merged and that's where Zen came to be.

Mikage said that he remembered Zen from 12000 and 24000 years ago and said he lost his body and implied that at one point he may have originally of been an angel. Apollo was Apollonius before he was reincarnated and then lost his body again. It could make sense

[miketyson]

Post episode-14 speculation. Do not read if you haven't seen it yet and don't want to be spoiled.

Speculation:

Spoiler for Fresh Speculah:

First: I think "reincarnation" is going to be really messy this time around, with each of the mains potentially being "soul of X, body of Y, mind of Z"-type reincarnations (...assuming these can all reincarnate separately). This goes slightly against what the staff seemingly said, but it's not actually incompatible; everything will still be clear in the end.

Next: I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there's a decent chance that Mikono is at least "one of" this story's relevant "solar wings" reincarnation (and perhaps the only one?). This wouldn't preclude her also being a partial reincarnation of some other character (e.g.: also Sylvie?)...but

Finally, time for crack: perhaps Mykage's end-game is to get all the "pieces" he needs together, kill them, and then somehow control "where" they reincarnate? This occurred to me when I considered the possibility that the Zen-Mykage conversation in episode 13 may've been more literal than it seemed at the time.

I'm not as sold on the latter two ideas as I am on the "Zen is Touma in disguise" theory, but they each make enough sense to me to feel like putting them out there.

[pingva]

Thoughts after 14 episodes

Spoiler:

Interesting parts:

Mikono saying that she doesn't like Zen at all.

Zen saying that Mikono hasn't changed.

Sun of the Wings this time is reborn as a human.

Zen gives more hints that he might be Toma.
Amata is really Wings of the Sun: no smell, Kagura sees them in the first two episodes and even says that it's Wings of the Sun, but at that moment Amata was with Mikono so it seems she might be Wings of the Sun too, but Mikono's and Zen's words about each other implies that Mikono was a person(I would like to know her true smell without her cat being in her hair: she is Silvia or someone who is going to unite Kagura with his lover)

[kuromitsu]

I won't even touch reincarnations, especially since I'm sure there are going to be huge twists and whatnot...

Originally Posted by miketyson

Finally, time for crack: perhaps Mykage's end-game is to get all the "pieces" he needs together, kill them, and then somehow control "where" they reincarnate? This occurred to me when I considered the possibility that the Zen-Mykage conversation in episode 13 may've been more literal than it seemed at the time.

To be honest I can't see that. We already know what Mykage wants: Aquarion, same as Touma in Genesis, and Touma had two very good reasons for wanting Aquarion. Since I don't think that Mykage is Touma, that eliminates one reason (Apollonius) and leaves the other, the Tree of Life, which would make sense if Mykage is indeed the last of his species. Of course he may have some entirely different reason, but as far as I see he only cares about the reincarnation business because that's the key to obtaining Aquarion.

Originally Posted by miketyson

I'm not as sold on the latter two ideas as I am on the "Zen is Touma in disguise" theory, but they each make enough sense to me to feel like putting them out there.

I can't see this one either. For one, Zen is very much like Gen who was very much not Touma. Also, it just wouldn't fit Touma's personality to disguise himself as a... well, whatever Zen is, he looks like a human. And I can't see Touma deciding to be in constant, direct touch with humans. And there are of course other attributes of Angels that should come across even in a disguise, that we don't see in Fudou.

...Really, I just want to know wtf is up with the whole Kagura demonwolf thing.

[ZetaAEUG]

I don't really think that Zen is Touma in disguise at all, nor can I imagine him being a 'teacher' to these kids. And could someone pm me the translation of the comment in the interview that was sensitive for shippers or whatever? I think it could be an interesting read for some insight as to where the plot is headed.

Given how Jin changed in such a short period of time, I can see kagura definitely changing for the better while he's with mikono, who I suspect is going to altair very soon.

[pingva]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

...Really, I just want to know wtf is up with the whole Kagura demonwolf thing.

I don't think so it's going to be explained. Just at this moment I can give you this: Apollo had an archaic wolf-form, Apollo Lycaeus, worshipped in Athens at the Lykeion, or Lyceum.

[miketyson]

kuromitsu: I'm pretty handicapped still not having seen the original, and most of what I know is either from wikipedia or from reading what other people post. That said, the sketch of the theory is that (1) "Zen" is Touma, and in fact "Zen" is just a projection (a la Mykage); (2) his real body might be in that crystal cave from ep 1 (suspiciously similar to Mykage's ice-crystal resting place); (3) his motivation is (I guess) to oversee and protect Apollonius's legacy; and from (4) his being ok with Mikono's reaction (and specifically with giving her a pass on going into the ground...) can be interpreted in a way favorable to this interpretation. Why does he decide to act like Gen? Dunno.

But here's where I go Fox News and say: "I've reported, you can decide, let's agree to disagree."

The beastwolf: I'm dying to know what that is too. I don't think it's going to remain a mystery forever, and if anything I'm guessing it will have some tie in with Shu-Shu. That's interesting pingva, especially the "archaic" part.

[LastOrder]

Mykage said that the wings of the sun were revealed to them. Could he imply Amata? But, that would be odd, since Aquarion is wings of the sun.

Zessica seems to believe that Mikono is the reincarnation of Sylvie, and while she's in that hole, she believes Mikono is going to abandon Amata.

Amata's whole "not chosen thing" I think this might imply that he in fact might be chosen, and if we are right, that he is a part of Apollo.

But, I'm going to stop myself before I go into reincarnations again.

On the other hand, Mykage seems to be really pushing it. I don't think Fudo expected Kagura to appear there before them all.

[Ypocaramel]

Originally Posted by Wikipeda on Apollo

The meaning of the epithet "Lyceus" later became associated Apollo's mother Leto, who was the patron goddes of Lycia (Λυκία) and who was identified with the wolf (λύκος),[15] earning him the epithets Lycegenes (/laɪˈsɛdʒəniːz/ ly-SEJ-ə-neez; Λυκηγενής, Lukēgenēs, literally "born of a wolf" or "born of Lycia") and Lycoctonus (/laɪˈkɒktənəs/ ly-KOK-tə-nəs; Λυκοκτόνος, Lukoktonos, from λύκος, "wolf", and κτείνειν, "to kill").

That said that very article points out that Greco-Roman gods were worshipped in many forms in the classicial period with many variations, geographical in particular.

[Vena]

If Zen if Gen, I think we can say that Touma, Sirius, and parts of Apollo are all dead and for the most part content enough to not need to be reborn. Which, again, makes me think that Kagura is only the part of Apollo that was determined to reunite with Sylvie. It would go far to explain why he's so one tracked and so obsessed.

Originally Posted by LastOrder

Mykage said that the wings of the sun were revealed to them. Could he imply Amata? But, that would be odd, since Aquarion is wings of the sun.

Zessica seems to believe that Mikono is the reincarnation of Sylvie, and while she's in that hole, she believes Mikono is going to abandon Amata.

Amata's whole "not chosen thing" I think this might imply that he in fact might be chosen, and if we are right, that he is a part of Apollo.

I find it odd that Mykage said the wings had revealed themselves. To what could he have been referring? Amata's awakening was before Jin got involved in the battles and Mykage seems to have known about him from Alicia. Could he be referring to Mikono's awakening? But that's (especially after this episode) much more reminiscent of Sylvie than of the Wings of the Sun. Zessica? I don't recall her awakening anything other than falling in love. Maybe he's referring to Jin's actions being the force the brought about the wings in Kagura (it was Jin's actions that drove Kagura into the pits and right into Mykage's hands)? Its so vague that instead of being helpful in clearing things up, it seems to be moving us backwards.

As for Amata, I think the line ties back to the beginning of the show. He is the new legend. He wasn't chosen to be Apollon but someone new, and his regrets were wholly about being left behind. Which, strangely enough, parallels Sylvie's situation at the end of Aquarion more-so than Apollo or anyone else for that matter. Tie this into the fact that Sylvie's being left behind... having kids... and leading to Amata's birth would have indeed meant that the one not chosen led to the new legend (assuming Amata is from the de Alicia line... which would explain his wings and ability to pilot Aquarion). Moreover, getting left behind is what let his legend start in the first place.

Zessica's concerns, while centered around Amata entirely, do seem to echo on a sense of powerlessness. On my second watch, I cannot help but feel that what terrifies her is the fact that she won't have the power to help Amata when he, seemingly, inevitably gets left behind again (or the inability to prevent it). Again, this is a parallel with how she compared herself to Yunoha. She's afraid that she'll end up in the same situation and be unable to do anything to help/prevent it/stop it. (They sure went out of their way to make her focus wholly on Amata.)

Something in all of this mess of symbolism has got to be foreshadowing. But this show is so confusing with what leads to what, that its a hopeless endeavor to even guess.

...

Maybe, Zessica = Wings, Mikono = Sylvie... Mikono x Zessica end?
Maybe, Amata = Sylvie, Kagura = Apollon... oh god this is getting worse.

Originally Posted by Ypocaramel

That said that very article points out that Greco-Roman gods were worshipped in many forms in the classicial period with many variations, geographical in particular.

I think its more a question of why he's taking a physical form of the dog. Apollo in the original story had beastly (dog-like) features in smell and his mannerisms, but they were at most characteristics or metaphors. Not literal transformations.