Madoka Magica - Episode 03 Discussion / Poll

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Not that I didn't expect this mahou shoujo to be a little more dark than say Nanoha, but I just didn't expect it to happen THIS soon.

Let's be honest here, the Nanoha series never had the balls to do it to a main character IN SERIES even tho it had the opportunity to do it, especially in StrikerS. As panzerfan had put it for me in IRC, Nanoha played with the fire but the consequences were never that bad, and when there were consequences, those were tackled in as afterthought in flashbacks. (it's one of the reasons I have grown disillusioned with this franchise as a whole, other than the mecha references wank)

I thumb up for Madoka Magica for doing that bold move. Showing that the girls plays with fire and that there are consequences that are more than a slap on the wrist.

[Archon_Wing]

Well Homura did warn them it was gonna be a shitty job without insurance. And now they see firsthand. No matter how strong you are, it just takes a little bit and it's over.

This is gonna be a fun path downwards, and the visuals were spectacular and they actually had the guts to do that so early. 9/10.

[jeroz]

Early shock is always good. Always

Anyway, are we forgetting about the role of the familiars in the early part of the episode? how they bud off and becomes a full on witch if kept unchecked? Or are we just all so shocked with the whole Mami incident?

[technomo12]

why oh why must the good and cheery people die early........................

really now if episode 4's title is right she may be brought back to life or something

but where oh where in heck is Mami's

i mean yeah tea cup and all still there are a lot of freaking question un answered also in some pics on op or ed the3 of them are all togoether soo im not losing hope of mami going back from the grave

[NorthernFallout]

Oh man. I mean... Oh man. I love this anime now. This is what I've been waiting for. Finally something serious. Doesn't matter if it was my favorite char... just makes the impact greater. Even if she gets back somehow, it worked fine on me.

[Decagon]

I didn't think these would be in Homura's arsenal considering the concept art with the bow.


Least it wasn't a 30 minute timer like the one the Gachi Rangers had to defuse.


Edit:

Been thinking about this for a little bit, but considering how easily Homura dispatched the witch I can't help but think Sayaka and Madoka might hold it against her for not accepting Mami's earlier offers of teaming up. What happened to Mami might also torture Madoka as Kyuubei had said to her earlier how great her potential was--which could imply she might have been able to defeat the witch, saving Mami by extension, if she had made a contract earlier.

[k//eternal]

Originally Posted by jeroz

Anyway, are we forgetting about the role of the familiars in the early part of the episode? how they bud off and becomes a full on witch if kept unchecked? Or are we just all so shocked with the whole Mami incident?

I figured that might be the reason why most witches don't have Grief Seeds on them (since you find them "if you're lucky"), so it isn't entirely shocking.

Originally Posted by Decagon

I didn't think these would be in Homura's arsenal considering the concept art with the bow.

I thought the bow was Madoka's weapon, but maybe you're thinking of a different picture which I haven't seen in which only Homura features (which would make it more decisive, of course).

[NakkiNyan]

Well, Madoka finally has something to wish for. I would imagine it is a wish to bring Mami back and that Mami knew it was a fight she could not win and did it intentionally. Completely guessing but for some reason I feel intent was behind her death even if it was a last minute choice.

[Decagon]

Originally Posted by k//eternal

I thought the bow was Madoka's weapon, but maybe you're thinking of a different picture which I haven't seen in which only Homura features (which would make it more decisive, of course).

It was from the early character promotional materials. Start around this post in the general discussion thread or her page on the official website. Though considering what they did making Mami's percussion lock rifles into magical flint locks and cannons and gossamer, .

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by k//eternal

I've already mentioned that the icon on top differs from Mami's Soul Gem, and that the cage on this Grief Seed contains a shape seen in Charlotte's decor that is also the shape of her first form's head.

Please supply screenshots for that. _Naturally_ the Grief Seed is looking different than a Soul Gem. But where's Mami's Soul Gem? What does remain when a MG dies?

It's my suspicion that defeated MGs drop Grief Seeds, just like defeated Witches - because they are one and the same. We know that active MGs have their Soul Gem tainted when they use magic, and I'm almost willing to bet that Witches are in fact fallen MGs who didn't manage to purify their gems anymore. And when they die, Grief Seeds remain. Which adds a nasty cannibalizing aspect to their existence.

We have to agree to disagree here: Both options are possible - the remaining Grief Seed being from Mami, or from Charlotte. It's certainly not "clear".

[k//eternal]

The Grief Seed seen here contains a "wrapped candy" shape inside the cage, with spots above and below. This is the design of Charlotte's first form's head, and appears multiple times in the labyrinth; one occurrence is on the rock Madoka and Mami hide behind shortly after Homura is tied up. I imagine you can find these points pretty quickly, since you're clearly paying a lot of attention to this episode and the series in general. If you still have trouble locating them I can screencap them for you, though.

And I said the small icon (again) ON TOP of the Soul Gem. Yes, Grief Seeds have a round ball with a spike below the icon, obviously different from Soul Gems, but that isn't what I'm talking about. It makes a lot of sense if the small icon is retained after becoming a witch, but I've argued for that a few times before already.

I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Mami did drop a Grief Seed, and yes, it makes for interesting speculation, but if she did, it likely wasn't the one we saw in this episode.

[Mentar]

Just to make sure I'm not misunderstood: The possibilities how Madoka/Sayaka might react you're listing here are very childish and immature - but that's exactly how kids act, so you may be perfectly correct in your prediction.

Originally Posted by Decagon

Been thinking about this for a little bit, but considering how easily Homura dispatched the witch I can't help but think Sayaka and Madoka might hold it against her for not accepting Mami's earlier offers of teaming up.

Er... Homura said that she'd take over this witch, and warned that it was different from what Mami was used to. It was Mami who restrained her.

Homura's point is that Madoka/Sayaka shouldn't team up, they should STAY OUT. Just that Madoka/Sayaka _and_ Mami refused to listen to her - Madoka/Sayaka out of blue-eyed naive ignorance about the true meaning of being a MG, and Mami due to her wish to find comrades and end her loneliness.

What happened to Mami might also torture Madoka as Kyuubei had said to her earlier how great her potential was--which could imply she might have been able to defeat the witch, saving Mami by extension, if she had made a contract earlier.

This hasn't been Madoka's fight to begin with. She has no business there. It's like becoming a drug addict yourself to take away the loneliness of another drug addict. Does that make any sense?

But alas, they are kids.

[Decagon]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Please supply screenshots for that. _Naturally_ the Grief Seed is looking different than a Soul Gem. But where's Mami's Soul Gem? What does remain when a MG dies?

It's my suspicion that defeated MGs drop Grief Seeds, just like defeated Witches - because they are one and the same. We know that active MGs have their Soul Gem tainted when they use magic, and I'm almost willing to bet that Witches are in fact fallen MGs who didn't manage to purify their gems anymore. And when they die, Grief Seeds remain. Which adds a nasty cannibalizing aspect to their existence.

We have to agree to disagree here: Both options are possible - the remaining Grief Seed being from Mami, or from Charlotte. It's certainly not "clear".

For you:
1. Mami's Soul Egg as seen in ep 1 and 2.

2. The Grief Seed we see in ep 3. The bottom left is from after the barrier implodes and this is what floats down to the ground and what Homura walks up to and picks up. The one Homura has in her hands is noticeably undetailed, but in that scene it was much smaller relative to the size of the shot than the other samples.


Apologies for the blockish edits. 13 year photoshop user banging his head on GIMP.

[k//eternal]

Since Decagon just took caps of the Grief Seed, I figured I might as well add this. Note that the cage and the object in it are unique to ep 3's Grief Seed.



The icons in question are Mami's rounded star, Gertrud's butterfly, and Charlotte's... something, but it's different from the other two.

[Decagon]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Just to make sure I'm not misunderstood: The possibilities how Madoka/Sayaka might react you're listing here are very childish and immature - but that's exactly how kids act, so you may be perfectly correct in your prediction.



Er... Homura said that she'd take over this witch, and warned that it was different from what Mami was used to. It was Mami who restrained her.

Homura's point is that Madoka/Sayaka shouldn't team up, they should STAY OUT. Just that Madoka/Sayaka _and_ Mami refused to listen to her - Madoka/Sayaka out of blue-eyed naive ignorance about the true meaning of being a MG, and Mami due to her wish to find comrades and end her loneliness.



This hasn't been Madoka's fight to begin with. She has no business there. It's like becoming a drug addict yourself to take away the loneliness of another drug addict. Does that make any sense?

But alas, they are kids.

I understand your points, but with regard to Mami and Madoka, Madoka displayed her desire and willingness to become a MG--to become someone strong and who protected others like Mami. She might blame the time it took her to get this resolve, however, for Mami's death.

On the other point, Sayaka has been hostile toward Homura since the first battle in the closed off portion of the mall. I'm not sure if she heard what went on when Mami restrained Homura (I don't know if Kyuubei would bother sending that over), but having Homura showing up after the witch finished chewing and swallowing their friend to steal the show seems too convenient if she doesn't know the circumstances. Even if Madoka does get over the shock and explain it to Sayaka, I don't think that will get rid of an uninformed first impression of what happened. At this point, I am sure I am reading too much into this bit however.

Edit:

I think I should say I'm going at this from the "My friend was just killed in front of me, what could I have done to prevent this/what could have prevented this" line of thought. In this case I think the logical step after grieving is looking for blame--either of oneself or of others.

[Malkuth]

Excellent episode, the magic world animation finally improved, ED visuals fit the song and to the main point ... Mami's death was masterfully executed ... it was foreshadowed during the episode, but it came so suddenly during the fight! Excellent direction there!

[Silverwyrm]

nomnomnom.

I saw it coming after she had her "celebrate after this" shpiel. I don't know what Homura saw in this witch that made her say it was different, but I think Mami allowed herself to become too light-headed after her conversation with Madoka. She once said "remember, we are risking our lives here" (or something similar) but after her little chat, she wasn't treating it like it was fight, more like it was child's play and she just cant wait to finish which caused her to get taken off guard and only one little mistake and your witchfeast.

Also, Kyubei (sp?) is creeping me out now with his super face shot "I wonder how big your soul gem will be". The fact that his expression never changes just made it creepier O.o

I liked how a death occurred so early, its a sign saying "no matter how experienced you are, get careless and its the death of you."

Last and a bit off topic, how many episodes is this scheduled?

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by Silverwyrm

Also, Kyubei (sp?) is creeping me out now with his super face shot "I wonder how big your soul gem will be". The fact that his expression never changes just made it creepier O.o

LOL, I am pretty sure to make him look like an inaminate pulsie, with that constant smirk and wide open eyes, is not to reduce the frames to be drawn, rather than look creepy and add more red herring. I mean think about it, we don't really know if he is saddened, delighted, indifferent or whatever, when Mami's head gets chopped off ... on the other hand, and since it has been already speculated, he is suggestion for Madoka and Sayaka becoming then and there magic girls, could either be because he has something to gain or for granting them the ability to defend themselves ... with his constant expression we can not really tell

Originally Posted by Silverwyrm

Last and a bit off topic, how many episodes is this scheduled?

1-cours, so probably 12

[sapphirearcz]

i am enjoying this show very much. All this sweet nobody ever dies endings is already becoming a drag to me. Its almost a fact that in order to achieve something, something must be sacrificed.
Usually i tend to maintain a habit to watch a series in one go after it had ended, but i think i have lost all self constraint with this

[Arnavion]

Where are you guys getting the names of the witches from? The ones which flash during the episode are some fictional script right?