Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 26 Discussion / Poll

[Used Can]

I'd say this is a case in which, it doesn't really matter who made the rule. R07 added it so that Ange would leave the game in a dramatic fashion in order to have an enraged Battler.

[Leinne]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

But why would Lambda have any power to bestow a rule on an opponent's piece? The only thing that she says is that in case Ange becomes her piece she can make her exist in the metaworld without that rule.

Imho there are only two possible ways to set a rule on a piece:

1) You are the master of the gameboard
2) You are the owner of that piece

Lambda is neither. Beatrice didn't make that rule either way Lambda couldn't change it. Only Bern is left, and she's the one who told Ange about that rule.

Wasn't the rule imposed by Bern, i mean she said it, right? She brought the piece and put that rule, ofc thought w/ 34 for maximum amusement

[Arkwright]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

But why would Lambda have any power to bestow a rule on an opponent's piece? The only thing that she says is that in case Ange becomes her piece she can make her exist in the metaworld without that rule.

Imho there are only two possible ways to set a rule on a piece:

1) You are the master of the gameboard
2) You are the owner of that piece

Lambda is neither. Beatrice didn't make that rule either way Lambda couldn't change it. Only Bern is left, and she's the one who told Ange about that rule.

My understanding of it was that it was a rule that was agreed upon between Bernkastel and Lambdadelta in order to allow Bernkastel to introduce someone from the outside.

In the sense of an analogy, say Bernkastel and Beatrice were actually playing chess. Well, nothing's stopping Bernkastel from taking an extra rook out of her pocket and starting the game with 3 rooks and 7 pawns instead of 2 rooks and 8. But of course, why would Referee Lambda ever let her do that? In that case maybe they might work out a deal: if the rook ever captures a piece, the rook itself will immediately be removed from the board.

[Jan-Poo]

I checked and It appears I was wrong:

Spoiler for Eisode4 Secret tea party:

Lambda: "Uffufufu! It's a good thing she was shackled by the rule about not giving her name! If that hadn't been set up, the brother-sister tag team would have swallowed Beato up and won in the blink of an eye."

Bern: "............I thought it was a chance for them to press her all at once, but your mark was so restrictive that I couldn't make the best use of her."

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

But why would Lambda have any power to bestow a rule on an opponent's piece? The only thing that she says is that in case Ange becomes her piece she can make her exist in the metaworld without that rule.

Imho there are only two possible ways to set a rule on a piece:

1) You are the master of the gameboard
2) You are the owner of that piece

Lambda is neither. Beatrice didn't make that rule either way Lambda couldn't change it. Only Bern is left, and she's the one who told Ange about that rule.

In the game Lambda clearly states that she was the one who put on the rule and Bern agrees that Lambda put it on. It could be for Ange to enter the game Bern had to make an agreement with Beato and Lambda that Ange couldn't say her name, but Lambda was probably the one who brought it up.

And again, why in the world would Bern put a rule on Ange that weakens her position in the Meta world. Just as the two said - if Battler knew Ange was Ange from the start then they would easily double team Beato.

edit: ninja'd but still :P

[Jan-Poo]

And again, why in the world would Bern put a rule on Ange that weakens her position in the Meta world. Just as the two said - if Battler knew Ange was Ange from the start then they would easily double team Beato.

Because from what Bern says it appears she planned to sacrifice her from the beginning. But how could she be "sacrificed" if there wasn't such a rule?

Anyway I always assumed that in the end what Bern really wanted was to fire up Battler and not giving him Ange's support.

[maximilianjenus]

I always assumed she was ok either way, since she wants to win the game, so the team up would be better for that; but probably she might think it's too soon to end the game so she does not mind it taking longer as long as th balance shifts on her favor.

[k//eternal]

I'm giving this one a 6 for including small bombs and for the great voice acting that got a lot of the emotion down solid. I've given up on them doing the mystery right anyway, but the end seems to have been scripted by someone who just read the dialogue and none of the other lines, and no hug? Geez.

I kind of hope they don't do Chiru, just because the mystery itself is even more of a plot element than ever, and if it's ruined in this way, it won't even begin to make sense.

[Dlanor A. Knox]

I do hope they gonna make Chiru, but less "ugh" and more *sparkle*

[Nontype]

Originally Posted by Luxa

Just watched the episode after Christmas for a change.
Reading this thread I've realised that I've come for the mystery, not for the characterization.

from the Intro to the VN -

Spoiler for VN intro off witch-hunt:

The genre of this work is probably a serial murder mystery. However, that does not guarantee that reasoning and guesswork are possible. Those who enjoy stupid puzzles that are made to be solved can leave now.

Umineko no Naku Koro ni is the worst kind of tale, created without any intention of letting all of you solve it. However, to all of the worst kinds of people, who hear that and just want to challenge it more, welcome.

I am myself sending out this tale to make these worst kinds of people surrender. No matter what kinds of strange events occur, all of you will try to explain it with humans and tricks, and deny all mysteries, as the worst kind of human supremacists.

Please, try to explain each one of the many baffling cases with humans and tricks as best you can. I want to see how far I can penetrate everyone's human supremacy.


The culprit is a witch. All alibis and tricks are magic. This is not a mystery, but fantasy!

I want to see you surrender and say that while crying bitter tears. I do not expect a line of reasoning leading to the truth to appear. I want to find out just how many people can deny the witch until the very end and maintain a 'human
culprit theory'. In short, this is a tale of a battle between humans and witches.

[Fishcaek-Chan]

Originally Posted by D0rYn

Actually, even if he's dead, the culprit can kill Battler. A timed bomb left behind by the culprit would work perfectly, for example.

This is a very good point, sounds like somethining Battler would use for Blue truth~x) Before she annouced he was the only live person on the island, a bomb could have easily set; bombs can surely last for days at a time, this could be one the same kind!

[omegasaries]

First of all, the entire anime series is amazing, and the final episode is no exception, everything was outstanding.
Now, greatest part in the episode was , the final riddle was amazing, beato and battler were perfect and the environment and music fitted very well
Worst thing about this episode: Angie Sould be Alive !!!!!! Bernkastel and Lambda are nothing more than good for nothing vermins... yes they got battler back but whats the point? they are going to keep torturing them until they get borred and that is only gonna happen... 10.000 games from now? ( i dont know if thats the number written on the text angie saw ) ...
Great episode non the less
Merry christmas guys

[Fishcaek-Chan]

I like your attitude, the episode was pretty darn good, of course I'm saying this from the point of view that hasn't read/played any of the visual novels, but still non the less! The producers didn't totally fail.~

[omegasaries]

Originally Posted by Fishcaek-Chan

I like your attitude, the episode was pretty darn good, of course I'm saying this from the point of view that hasn't read/played any of the visual novels, but still non the less! The producers didn't totally fail.~

I did not played the visual novel as well but i believe the producers can be proud of themselves Beato was perfect and battler was a true warrior, the sacrifice in this case was angie... loved her.
We can all give a big big clap to the producers bring us more episodes, as great as this one.

[Malkuth]

Judging only the anime execution ... it was an awful rehash of concepts taken from higurashi. The last episode did an excellent job of focusing in the worse qualities of the show, like explosive candies, pops to dragon, useless neon-colored scripts dancing around stills, over-sized thighs, lack of bunny girls, lolis, "to be continued/explained" ending, random blood/impalings/deaths ... but worse even more random plot-twists, rivaling code geass.

Now, truth to be told, the "answers arcs" could fix this bleak impression, but I am not so optimistic about the probability of that prospect. Maybe my POV is too harsh, but I had high expectation from the "successor" of higurashi.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

Now, truth to be told, the "answers arcs" could fix this bleak impression, but I am not so optimistic about the probability of that prospect. Maybe my POV is too harsh, but I had high expectation from the "successor" of higurashi.

Yeah, this is more the reaction I expected out of the anime viewers... Play the game, it makes a hell of a lot more sense.

[Raneh]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

Judging only the anime execution ... it was an awful rehash of concepts taken from higurashi. The last episode did an excellent job of focusing in the worse qualities of the show, like explosive candies, pops to dragon, useless neon-colored scripts dancing around stills, over-sized thighs, lack of bunny girls, lolis, "to be continued/explained" ending, random blood/impalings/deaths ... but worse even more random plot-twists, rivaling code geass.

Um, what exactly do you actually like about this show then? And if by 'random plot-twists' you mean Kinzo's death before the games begin it is in the very core of this show. If you see the whole series again you can see that there have been hints from the very beginning, MANY hints. It may just not be that easy to put it all together. Also Beatrice's position had been hinted in episode 18.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Play the game, it makes a hell of a lot more sense.

I agree, the mystery is much more enjoyable in the VN. (Heck, it feels like it's unsolvable by seeing the anime alone)

[-Sho-]

Well , i was nice , give it 5/10 .
Ending didn't impress me , story too but the quality was still here .
Yeah , wtf with the battle ...
Really , i felt that this anime was interesting in the beginning but it became less interesting at the middle . Detective's part was boring , the battle witch/magic against reality was meh , till the end imo .
Well , wonder if there'll be a 2nd season but i won't be enthusiasm .

[Leinne]

Originally Posted by -Sho-

Well , i was nice , give it 5/10 .
Ending didn't impress me , story too but the quality was still here .
Yeah , wtf with the battle ...
Really , i felt that this anime was interesting in the beginning but it became less interesting at the middle . Detective's part was boring , the battle witch/magic against reality was meh , till the end imo .
Well , wonder if there'll be a 2nd season but i won't be enthusiasm .

It's just the reccomendation I always do, but read the VN, it's a complete different feeling from the anime. the misteries are difficult and the characters developed, the anime just did every part they could do wrong

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by Leinne

It's just the reccomendation I always do, but read the VN, it's a complete different feeling from the anime. the misteries are difficult and the characters developed, the anime just did every part they could do wrong

Even if my japanese and motivation were enough, I can waste 20 minutes per week on another anime, but going through a whole VN ... I have done that only for Tsukihime and then I had to kill 3 hrs commuting time daily

As for what I liked ... the original idea about the meta-world was interesting (hardly original though), the execution was unfortunate. The best part was frankly the bunny-girls and they did not even show up in the penultimate episode