2009-11-11, 12:27 | Link #3061 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: HK, China
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Great. As Erika's perception was accurate and reflects the reality, it is officially crushed then (Though I wonder why it needed an official crushing at all since Shakanon theory never make sense from the real world perspective.)
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2009-11-11, 12:51 | Link #3062 | |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: That's right... where DO I live?!
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For all we know, this hypothetical switch is only part of the puzzle, in the vein of the "living Beatrice being innocent or a pawn" theory (and is actually the reason why Kyrie goes homicidal, if she is indeed the culprit). Or it it could that Jessica really is the culprit in all or at least some murders. Last edited by Neofio3; 2009-11-11 at 13:07. |
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2009-11-11, 13:37 | Link #3063 | ||||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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This whole theory that Jessica is Asumu's child is completely unrelated. Also the 07151129 itself doesn't hint to that. All the other hints are pretty straight forward A therefore B But what you are proposing here as a hint is something like if((A = B) && (B = C) && (E = F)) therefore D Your hint is a hint only if the following conditions are met: 07151129 refers to a birth date Asumu's child is still alive Asumu's child is on the island Asumu's child is Beatrice A true hint doesn't need a set of theories to be seen as a hint. Quote:
1) Episode5 is substantially different from other previous games. For example this is the only game where there are 18 persons instead of 17 or less. Which means even if both Kanon and Shannon are there in Ep5 that doesn't mean they are in previous episodes 2) Battler's perspective in this game is not reliable. We do not see the game through Erika's eyes, we see the game through Battler's eyes. So even if Battler sees Erika interacting with someone, that doesn't mean Erika actually does.
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2009-11-11, 13:40 | Link #3064 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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One thing. 07/15 as a date...does not give a year. This could be anyone's birthdate. Even Kinzo's. Same for 11/29 if that is a second date rather than 11:29...a time. That 7/15 is Battler's birthday narrows it down, yet the 1129 is an unknown...in terms of being relevent to anything aside from probably a pass code or P.O. box number sort of deal. Thus attempting to say it narrows down the number of people by their age is flawed...since there is no year given to deturmine age.
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2009-11-11, 13:45 | Link #3065 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
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-Furudo Erika has not influenced the game up to this point. -She did not exist in the world up to this point, nor did she influence it. -Furudo Erika only increased the head count by one. Not counting her, the number of people on the island is exactly the same as in the preceding games. -In short, it means that the number of people in this drawing room now is the number of all people on the island. Which means that as both Shannon and Kanon are present in the room, they are separate entities. 2) Possible, but not very credible... |
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2009-11-11, 13:52 | Link #3066 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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The number of people in this room is the same as the number of people on the island. And if I remember correctly, the scene wasn't shown from Erika's perspective, so you could argue that it's technically untrustworthy even though Erika was present. Shkanon is like a cockroach I guess it depends on what the rules for false POVs are. Do all of the participants have to be lying (or dead) to present a false scene, or just the POV character? Battler proposed that a conspiracy was necessary to explain Natsuhi and Kanon talking to Kinzo in the same scene, but that theory wasn't ever confirmed in red. EDIT: Curses, ninja'd by Jan-poo. |
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2009-11-11, 13:59 | Link #3067 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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So for the Shkanon theory to work...one or the other (whichever one you believe to be the real one) has schizophrenia or perhaps a multi-personality disorder. Because Kanon and Shannon's personalities are pretty far apart. Shannon being fairly gentle, and Kanon being rather depressed and wrathful when angered.
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2009-11-11, 14:23 | Link #3068 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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BTW the text you mention do not definitely state that both Kanon and Shannon are there. Shannon isn't mentioned in any red text of Ep5 except the one said by Natsuhi which doesn't refer to the present. The biggest threat to the shkannon theory imho is still what Lambda said in Ep4's secret tea party. Rather what really is a bother for option number1 is the fact that red states that except Erika the number of the people is exactly the same as in previous game. Which means that if this time Shannon and Kanon are both there and in previous episodes aren't, then in previous episodes there must be a X person to make the number count match.
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2009-11-11, 14:34 | Link #3069 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
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-The only one who can claim Kanon's name is the person himself! -A different person cannot claim his name! So Shannon couldn't impersonate Kanon. |
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2009-11-11, 15:14 | Link #3071 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Which means that Shannon and Kanon isn't the same person in any game. Shkanon theory crushed. |
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2009-11-11, 15:22 | Link #3073 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
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When it says a different person can't claim his name, it means a different person can't wear the same outfit and tell people that he/she is Kanon. |
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2009-11-11, 15:30 | Link #3075 |
The unlucky one
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hiding
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He can't..claiming someones name is something different than dressing up as someone. To say
"Hey, from now on I'm Battler and gonna solve this" is claiming someones name in this case it's claiming Battler's. Name nd looks are different from each other. But as soon as Person X proclaims in one instance..the in stance of the introduction in which Kanon meets BAttler "I'm Kanon" he or she is claiming Kanon's name and to be Kanon.
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2009-11-11, 15:37 | Link #3077 |
The unlucky one
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hiding
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I know that (though you were/are quite indeed quite a follower of that theory weren't you) and I agree with you the cat box isn't opened yet at all. Though if I have to be honest Ep 5 kinda had the "In your face" feeling due the fact that Ryukishi seemed to make Kanon and Shannon only appear together all of sudden but that may be the misleading fact Ryukishi already mentioned. But I cna't judge properly yet due the fact that I only got the overall plot of Ep 5 from playing in Japanes and did not understood everything
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2009-11-11, 15:39 | Link #3078 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Still, the whole theory is pretty stupid... Shannon was found dead in the shed in Episode 1 and Kanon was standing next to her right? Battler didn't see Shannon's body, but Hideyoshi did and even if you claim that Hideyoshi's view is not objective and that he could lie about it being Shannon, why on earth would he ever do that? It only pains George to know that fact and Hideyoshi doesn't benefit in any way unless there is something like a Hideyoshi culprit theory in place...
And what about the second game? They should've both been in the chapel with the cousins... EDIT: (actually, Shannon and Genji leaves right before the cousins enter... however they should've passed on the way to the chapel). And in the third game, both Shannon and Kanon are found dead are they not? Oh, but Kanon could've died beforehand and Shannon could've dressed up as him... Seriously, the whole Shannon = Kanon theory is about as believable as "Small bombs". Also, for alle the scenes with Shannon and Kanon to be fake, almost everyone on the island must be lying to Battler because they can't have a subjective view of a scene for no reason. Last edited by Geekodot; 2009-11-11 at 15:49. |
2009-11-11, 15:56 | Link #3079 | ||
The unlucky one
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hiding
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Kanon/Shannon died shortly before the events of the 4th and 5th october due something that wasn't an accident. The corpse of that one who died before everything started was put into the shed as well. Quote:
Edit: And no oen except Kumasawa ever mentioned to be together with both of them (she mentions that one time saying she was fullfilling tasks with both of them)
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2009-11-11, 16:17 | Link #3080 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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But then, what would the point be of hiding the death of a servent that died before October 4th? They are hired help. Orphans that are set loose later after they earn some money and skills in these two's case...Shannon being somewhat of an exception as she's been there ten years.
Hiding Kinzo's death serves a purpose. Hiding Shannon or Kanon's does not. Both live on the island, so those that also live on the island would notice things being different or changed. Thus Krauss, Natsuhi, and Jessica would notice for sure. As would Genji who I assume lives there as well. If Shannon was dead, Jessica...her friend, would notice. If Kanon were dead, Jessica would definately notice, considering how interested in Kanon she is. Thus in both cases, for Shkannon to work on the level of one replacing the other due ot one being dead...Jessica has either be in the know, or it doesn't work. And if one of those two were dead, I'd think Jessica would be depressed...one being her friend and the other her emo prince.
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