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Originally Posted by demon_god04
Lelouch did go to the ceremony with the intention of becoming a messiah of sorts by having Euphie shoot him. However if you would recall, he actually admitted that Euphie was the one person he could never win against and surrendered. He had every intention of helping Euphie make the Special Administrative Zone work, it was just that his geass went out of control just when he was saying something stupid. The only time he was abusing his power was when he was making those guys do pushups, bark like a dog and whatever else in R2.
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Actually, I have to say it wasn't just that his Geass went out of control. If he learned to hold his tongue and wasn't bragging unnecessarily none of that would have happened. Also, the only reason he stopped his plan was because he would have gotten something out of it (Euphie gave up the crown.)
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I am glad atleast someone finds this amusing and not extremely tiresome.
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Ah, I always love a good debate.
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Lelouch said that he was a living corpse to convince C.C he would shoot himself so that she would let him go play with Cornelia. Once again, Lelouch already had plans to fight Britannia even before he got the geass, it was just that his power allowed him to make his move sooner then anticipated.
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Right... How about no. What was his plan? Sit there and hope for the best? As Aquaman OS put it, he had no plan.
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It was lucky that he got geass yes, but the point was that Lelouch would still make his move against Britannia without it.
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Yeah? HOW? He can barely function in battles without using his Geass.
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Noone said that Suzaku wasn't instrumental in saving Nunally, or anything of the sort. How does that pertain to this discussion? You are the one making excuses by trying to drag Lelouch down to Suzaku's level instead of making arguments based on Suzaku's merits and accomplishments.
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The luck area. Lelouch was lucky Suzaku was there.
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Rules? You make this sound like it is a game. There is a saying, "There are no saints on the battlements."
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Then why are you going to insult the way Britannia operates by slaughtering people if Lelouch operates the same way? It sounds very contradictory to me.
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When the director (or was it the head writer?) say that Suzaku was using his ideals to justify killing himself to ease his guilt, then it is pretty hard to argue against it.
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No it isn't. Again, just because the director sees things one way does not make it the absolute truth in an anime that is no where close to cut and dry. I brought this up before in another topic. Just because the director has a view on something does NOT mean that there can't be opposing view points on the matter. If there wasn't all of these topics in general are a waste of time and shouldn't even need to be discussed. But since it is obvious people have different views, they are being discussed. There is no one truth to interperate something.
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Fact of the matter is despite his alledged intentions, he has accomplised nothing except to farther Britannia's oppression.
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I have to disagree. He is going about this a totally different way than Lelouch is. He wants to change things internally. Before he showed up, did anyone ever think that any non-Britannian could pilot a KMF? Or become a knight? Nope. As Deithard even said right in Season One right after Suzaku first became a Knight, the Britannian's now have a symbol that can garner them support from the 11's. If Zero didn't keep pressing things and cause pandemonium everywhere he goes who KNOWS what would have happened.
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First of all, if you have read what I said initially why Suzaku annoys me then you would know that I am not condeming him for being on Britannia's side. 
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Really now? This:
"He wants to help people and condems Lelouch's way is wrong, and yet his way of joining the side that are committing massacres, and even standing aside and allowing them is right?"
applies that you are condemning Suzaku for being on the Britannian side.
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Yet Lelouch moves forward carrying, note that he makes no excuses or does he try to forget, those burdens because he believes in what he is doing. Where as Suzaku hides behind his false convictions and vague intentions.
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And what has Lelouch accomplished besides more conflict, pain, and death?
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Once again, it was stated in season one that Lelouch had always had a plan, geass just accelerated it.
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His "plan" would never have been put into action. Where would he get the money, power, army, and everything else? He was just telling himself that to make himself feel better so that he didn't need to think his life was useless.
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The point which you seem to be missing is that, yes Suzaku is doing something, infact he is a great Britannian soldier, he follows orders well and is a great pilot. It is just that he is a very poor revolutionary, if he truely intend to change Britannia from the inside, he needs support of the nobles who run things to change the system.
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Um... Nunnally is now a noble that supports change and he DOES obviously support her. Also, I don't think Schneizel wants to just wipe out and oppress people for that matter (he did love the idea of the SAZ when Euphie proposed it after all.)
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Yet has he been shown to even care to try to garner such support? He is not the Knight of Seven because he changed the system, he bought that position with Lelouch and bargained his way in.
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Yes. So he CAN change the system.
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And yet what reforms has he attempted? The only thing you should be laughing at is his pitiful excuse of "changing things from within".
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Like Lelouch's 'plan' to just wipe everyone out?
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Whether he would or would not have ordered the attack was not my main point. My point was that if he truely believed in his ideals, his first thought wouldn't have been that he should order the army to open fire, and that he would come to the conclusion of letting the one million people go by himself, instead of using Nunnally and Euphie as a crutch to make that decision for him.
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He hardly used them as a crutch. As canis said, he just doesn't like Zero (and who can blame him) so he thought about doing it. He then remembered what happened with Euphie and definitly didn't want to see that happen again. The only thing you have to go one with that is that he thought of it because he despises Zero. Not that he is indecisive.
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And then to go back and doubt the decision of forgiving Zero and letting him go the next episode when tablefap decided to be crazy with a knife.
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Because he knows he can't forgive him deep down. Is that so wrong? That is NORMAL HUMAN EMOTION. Zero was responsible for killing someone close to him and used her to kill a bunch of people effectively dragging her good name through the mud. Who WOULDN'T doubt it? But did he let it happen? No he didn't so you can say all you want, but being human is not a weakness OR a fault. Try again please.
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Since when in Code Geass has the majority of the Britannians in power was shown not oppressive to the numbers? You are right, there are good people in Britannia just like everywhere else, sadly it does not seem like a good number of them are in a position of power where it counts.
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I will still say Schneizel is not some epitome of evil doing. He actually prefers diplomacy over battle and he is in pretty good position to do something about it. We will just have to wait and see on that matter though.
