(L) Dragon Ball Super

[Kanon]

The Bardock OVA was already retconned in Jaco and the Dragon Ball Minus chapter (I think that was the name). The canon story is that Bardock was a loving father and husband who sent his son to Earth so he could be safe. Basically, Toriyama made Goku's backstory the same as Superman's.

[RDNexus]

I'm really starting to get sick of all these retcons that simply screw up the story more than remedy it

[Wandering Soul]

Originally Posted by Kanon

The Bardock OVA was already retconned in Jaco and the Dragon Ball Minus chapter (I think that was the name). The canon story is that Bardock was a loving father and husband who sent his son to Earth so he could be safe. Basically, Toriyama made Goku's backstory the same as Superman's.

That's sort of weird considering how Toryiama apparently didn't like the fact that the english dubbed basically turned Goku into Japanese Superman.

[Mad Pierrot]

New chapter of the manga is trying to explain the god transformations

So it looks like red is only god chi and balances whereas blue is god chi plus saiyan chi?

[BladeMancer]

Originally Posted by amaterasu4

New chapter of the manga is trying to explain the god transformations

So it looks like red is only god chi and balances whereas blue is god chi plus saiyan chi?

Are translations out? From what I can gather Super Saiyan Blue has a high stamina drain, not as big as Super Saiyan 3, but enough to affect long term battle performance and reuse of the transformation. Vegeta devised a way to flicker between Blue and God to minimise the drain of power while also dealing maximum damage

[Mad Pierrot]

Originally Posted by BladeMancer

Are translations out? From what I can gather Super Saiyan Blue has a high stamina drain, not as big as Super Saiyan 3, but enough to affect long term battle performance and reuse of the transformation. Vegeta devised a way to flicker between Blue and God to minimise the drain of power while also dealing maximum damage

Manga stream

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Kanon

The Bardock OVA was already retconned in Jaco and the Dragon Ball Minus chapter (I think that was the name). The canon story is that Bardock was a loving father and husband who sent his son to Earth so he could be safe. Basically, Toriyama made Goku's backstory the same as Superman's.

yeah that make even worse and more nonsense goku being so "evil" like that or reckless when you look at his father and mother you can't see how goku ended being like that old crap battle maniac, even vegita which was a reclkess and evil guy now is a great father and husband, this really show "how peoples can chance" and not all the times "for good", i really miss kid goku which was actually a good person and care for his friends.

today episode was really to show how universe 11 have strong guys, the big "justice hero guy" ended being on the same level of sayan blue, this means which he and his teams could easy get on the "gods levels", that was a good battle and now we know which the really strong guy is coming which is the pretty much the guy on the op fighting goku.

[Stark700]

I liked the fight between Goku and Toppo this week. Ending felt kinda underwhelming but for the majority of the time, it lived up to my expectations.

The Beerus and Goku part near the end got me laughing a bit as usual XD

[Mad Pierrot]

I expected Goku to lose since he has already used the kaiohkamehameha blue combo. Maybe he is hiding a new move.

Also, am I the only one who found Gohan weird? He seems really interested in facing new opponents like his father

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by amaterasu4

I expected Goku to lose since he has already used the kaiohkamehameha blue combo. Maybe he is hiding a new move.

Also, am I the only one who found Gohan weird? He seems really interested in facing new opponents like his father

lol maybe finally the "evil gens" of his father are kicking on him and he like goku will suffer akira crap write transformation of personality to make him from a lovely father and husband to a crap battle maniac.

[Sixth]

It was nice to see Melee/IT Kamahema again.

and Ginyu forces (if they are still alive) will make a company for Toppo.

and Gohan finally got infected by saiyan virus. It won't be long that Gohan stop abandon his family for fighting.

[NAJ P. Jackson]

Bah Toppo reminds me of those self righteous heroic type of charcters like Kouki from Arifureta.

[Kanon]

Since there were was some talk about the manga, I 'm finding the Black arc really good in it. Everything is explained in more detail, like why Black chose to start with Trunks' timeline, why he left Trunks alive for so long, and how he was able to reach SSJ and then Rose by abusing Zenkai thanks to Zamasu healing his wounds.

Keeping the Super Saiyan God transformation is a good idea on Toyotaro's part too. The anime created a lot of confusion by having Goku absorb the power and be able to use it in base and then bringing back the regular SSJ transformation we thought were gone because of that. The manga makes it easy to know when Goku and Vegeta are using god ki, and makes it clear where the U6 characters are standing.

Originally Posted by amaterasu4

I expected Goku to lose since he has already used the kaiohkamehameha blue combo. Maybe he is hiding a new move.

The OP is hinting at a new transformation. He can most likely beat Toppo with Blue + Kaiohken, Jiren is the one that will give him trouble. I think Vegeta will be the one to beat Toppo, and Gohan will fight the Beerus lookalike. Unless Universe 6 decides to team up with U7, in that case Hit could take one.

I found it suspicious that the Grand Priest interrupted the match right when Goku used Kaiohken. He made an odd glance when he saw Goku power up.

I liked that Gohan thought Toppo was cool. I kinda want him to fight him just so they can have a posing and corny lines contest.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Since there were was some talk about the manga, I 'm finding the Black arc really good in it. Everything is explained in more detail, like why Black chose to start with Trunks' timeline, why he left Trunks alive for so long, and how he was able to reach SSJ and then Rose by abusing Zenkai thanks to Zamasu healing his wounds.

Keeping the Super Saiyan God transformation is a good idea on Toyotaro's part too. The anime created a lot of confusion by having Goku absorb the power and be able to use it in base and then bringing back the regular SSJ transformation we thought were gone because of that. The manga makes it easy to know when Goku and Vegeta are using god ki, and makes it clear where the U6 characters are standing.



The OP is hinting at a new transformation. He can most likely beat Toppo with Blue + Kaiohken, Jiren is the one that will give him trouble. I think Vegeta will be the one to beat Toppo, and Gohan will fight the Beerus lookalike. Unless Universe 6 decides to team up with U7, in that case Hit could take one.

I found it suspicious that the Grand Priest interrupted the match right when Goku used Kaiohken. He made an odd glance when he saw Goku power up.

I liked that Gohan thought Toppo was cool. I kinda want him to fight him just so they can have a posing and corny lines contest.

yeah and the fact which was trunks and not goku making the mafuba was much better than the anime where trunk just in 5 minutes learned what goku needed a almost whole day to do and showing which goku get the wrong paper made much more sense than he "forget to get one" which again in anime showed nonsense sinse somehow for godplot sake master hioshi forget to give goku, i think which akira is trying to use the manga to fix what looked terrible plot wise to give some proper fix(but still some mess since dragon ball is not really a "master piece when comes to plot and it's only strong point is really comedy and battle).

about the bold, could be really cool if instead of a battle power they really started a battle to see who can pull the most weird super sentai pose then something like that near the end:

gohan winning:

-gohan: - i can't loose to him, i must have the better hero pose ever - then he does a super shining pose
-toppo: - what is that pose!??... that shiny i can't stand to it... then he fal and say, you young one showed how a "true hero" must be i give you the victory...

toppo wining :

toppo; - ok young boy i'm tired to play with you... i will show you what really make a "true justice warrior", then he start to make a big and long pose to finally get a big bright shiny.

then gohan

gohan - this can't be that bright, that hands... his body position all his muscle perect aligned i can't stand that a true hero pose... i surrender...

then beerus goes crazy

[sayde]

So if Vegeta knows how to flicker between SSJG and SSJB in the manga is it safe to assume he can do this in the anime? Which version even holds more authority over the canon? I was content to ignore the manga because I wasn't aware pf enough deviations from the anime to make it seem worthwhile, but now I'm not so sure. If Vegeta's learning new techniques and utilizing transformations we never saw him use in the anime, then these differences are getting a little too large to ignore.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by sayde

So if Vegeta knows how to flicker between SSJG and SSJB in the manga is it safe to assume he can do this in the anime? Which version even holds more authority over the canon? I was content to ignore the manga because I wasn't aware pf enough deviations from the anime to make it seem worthwhile, but now I'm not so sure. If Vegeta's learning new techniques and utilizing transformations we never saw him use in the anime, then these differences are getting a little too large to ignore.

afar i know both are cannon it's just akira wanted to draw a manga too alongside with the anime, just considere both being "different universes" or timelines like F. trunks arc, akira is more like to use the manga to explain few things which not get proper explainned in anime or to add "extra content" to make sure peoples gonna buy the manga too but if you really want something like that then by "timeline release" anime could be the "cannon" since come first then the manga a different version of the anime.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by sayde

So if Vegeta knows how to flicker between SSJG and SSJB in the manga is it safe to assume he can do this in the anime? Which version even holds more authority over the canon? I was content to ignore the manga because I wasn't aware pf enough deviations from the anime to make it seem worthwhile, but now I'm not so sure. If Vegeta's learning new techniques and utilizing transformations we never saw him use in the anime, then these differences are getting a little too large to ignore.

The Super Saiyan God form doesn't exist anymore in the anime. Goku and Vegeta can use God Ki in their base form. That's why I said it creates confusion. You never know when they're using God Ki (which puts them around Mystic Gohan level) or not in their base form. This has lead people to believe they're using God Ki all the time and the SSJ forms power them up further, but it makes no sense when you see Trunks was equal to SSJ2 Goku in the Black saga.

The two base theory is the only one that works for me. Basically in the anime:

Base form (Buu saga level) -> SSJ -> SSJ2 -> SJJ3

Base form (Buu saga level) -> alternate base form infused with God Ki (no visual difference, which is the problem) -> SSJ Blue

In the manga:

Base form (Buu saga level) -> SSJ -> SSJ2 -> SJJ3

Base form (Buu saga level) -> SSJ God -> SSJ Blue

Important to note the Kaioken never returned in the manga. Instead, Blue was made stronger but with huge drawbacks it doesn't have in the anime. For example, the reason Vegeta lost against Hit in the manga is that he could only use 1/10th of Blue's power because he had previously shown off the form to Cabba earlier.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Kanon

For example, the reason Vegeta lost against Hit in the manga is that he could only use 1/10th of Blue's power because he had previously shown off the form to Cabba earlier.

Which is really the only problem I have with the manga now. How is showing off a form for a few seconds enough to drain like 90% of your stamina, but constantly turning the power off and on doesn't seem to consume any discernible amount?

I guess the idea is supposed to be like Golden Frieza, where he trained enough that simply transforming doesn't drain him but maintaining it does.

[ChainLegacy]

The manga seems to be written in a more logically consistent manner overall. There's no completely nonsensical BS like Black pulling that scythe out of his hand and making those clones of himself. That said, I think the explanation about Blue's stamina drain is weak, and kaioken + SSB is just badass. It's a mistake to leave that out.

Did anyone else get the impression Goku already has a new form waiting in the wings? It seemed like that's what he was alluding to with his "pass my limits" taunt to Toppo. The grand priest stopped him right before he unleashed it.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

and kaioken + SSB is just badass. It's a mistake to leave that out.

It may be that it's just a practical issue. In anime form it looks amazing because of the red+blue mix in the aura, but in black and white manga form I fear it would just be confusing, or at least not nearly as easily recognisable from an ordinary powered-up SSB.