2010-05-18, 17:25 | Link #10143 | |
Endless Witch-Doctor
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Ah, wait a minute. In EP4, when Ange visited Rokkenjima, the land was destroyed. It was even said by Ryukishi that this hinted at the existence of a bomb. Basically, Ange confirms in the future that the explosion actually happened. Even if the heart metaphor is true, the heart wasn't killed, was it? |
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2010-05-18, 17:27 | Link #10144 |
Radiant as the sun;
Graphic Designer
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I'm rereading episode 1, and i'm sorry if i'm so late, but I like how Battler just points out numerous times about how good George is with children, his envy of how he can comfort them, etc. So, excluding Shannon, who he could easily manipulate, couldn't he also be very well capable of manipulating Maria?
And as stated before, he knows more than he should have about magic. So with her relationship with Rosa, I think George would be a person Maria would turn to for comforting, since he always is understanding of her and her interest in magic. I probably am late on this one, though if anything, i'm curious about what George=Mastermind theorists would have to say with rereading the episodes and refreshing up their minds a bit.
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2010-05-18, 17:34 | Link #10145 | |
Maelstorm-Fenrir
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2010-05-18, 17:39 | Link #10146 | |
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Delta is the fourth letter in the Greek alphabet. Gamma is the third. Lambda is the 11th. However, numerically Lambda has a value of 30, and Delta has a value of 4. So it's not 3 + 4, but 30 + 4. Also, Delta in legal shorthand indicates a defendant. I think this is probably a coincidence, as Lambda has no particular legal significance, and the symbol for plaintiff is Pi, which to my knowledge isn't related to any character in Umineko. |
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2010-05-18, 17:59 | Link #10147 | |
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By the way, I seriously doubt that this Ryukishi-style numerology will lead us to any real clues. I have a feeling it's a red herring that he put in to 'occupy' us, knowing how obsessive some of his fans are. 8) It's from this that I've put forward the theory that everything Maria sees as 'magic' is caused by someone around her. She does not think she is lying at all. In this way she is the anti-Battler. Battler is one who sees the 'truth' from the detective point of view, 100% and Maria is the one who sees 'magic' or what someone wants her to see, 100%. With this theory, it should be possible to go back through EP1-4 and pinpoint anyone who is around Maria when she sees magic. For example... Rosa. |
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2010-05-18, 17:59 | Link #10148 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Gee my theories are coming in handy today.
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=9808 Here is my list of reasons for why I think George is suspicious Quote:
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2010-05-18, 18:01 | Link #10149 |
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Join Date: Nov 2009
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Can't say I like your Episode 3 theory all that much, Seagull. Too much random chaotic murder and not enough devious scheming.
I always thought the servants would be the most likely to carry the stakes, followed by Natsuhi, Krauss and Nanjo. Though that's just because it's the order of people with the easiest access to the study, where I'd presume Kinzo would've stuffed them. Unrelated, but I decided to re-read Episode 1's Tea Party, because I thought I remembered something. First of all, massive breaking of the fourth wall some? I'm pretty sure they make reference to "us" one or two times, and the whole first third of it feels like actors relaxing after a day of shooting than people recovering after death in Purgatorio. Second, when everyone is pitying Shannon for dying so painfully, she tells them it didn't hurt all that much. Last time I checked, you don't die immediately from having half your face being torn up. Between the time that you're still alive and the time that you die, you're hurting like fucking hell. So either the mutilation happened after she died, or she never died in the first place. I'm placing my money on the latter. Third, I found what I remembered. When Beato appears and re-enacts the deaths of everyone besides Battler, both Kanon and Shannon die how we remember them appearing to have died. Jessica, George and Maria all die by having their bodies reddened and in agonizing pain. In the end, they end up looking like a pile of ugly meat. If you threw in that they looked like blackened, ugly piles of meat, wouldn't it sound like the were in the middle of an explosion/fire? Fourth, though Maria tells Battler tells believe in Beato as she's dying, Jessica tells Battler to not give in and solve their deaths. Now, there's another line before hand which is similar, but I'm not sure if it belongs to her or George. Since it fits with what I'm getting at, I'm assuming they were both from her. So, with her hopes of finally confessing to Battler how she feels now impossible, she does the only thing she can do, cheer him on and convince him to not give up. Yeah, I guess I support Battler/Jessitrice now. |
2010-05-18, 18:03 | Link #10150 |
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One of the out-of-game Chiru TIPs also portrays George rather unsympathetically as emotionally manipulative in his relationship with Shannon. At the very least, he seems to like messing with her, and it comes across as more creepy and controlling than romantic. At least that's the way I see it.
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2010-05-18, 18:06 | Link #10151 | |
Maelstorm-Fenrir
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2010-05-18, 18:07 | Link #10152 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Episode 3 closed room reconstruction
Since we're also on episode 3 here I thought I'd post this. It's probably more relevant here than it is in the episode 5 thread.
The parlor in particular is a special room at this point. Shannon was the first person they discovered and she was discovered by breaking a window. The strange thing is that the keys that the red said were found ( in episode 4) were the servants keys (there might have been master keys in envelopes too, but Virgilia never said there were in here analysis in episode 3). They took Shannon's key and went to the next room and found Kumasawa, then Gohda, then Genji, and so on. Once you get to Kanon's closed room though the key in his envelope opens the parlor. So if George had the key from the chapel (wow what a coincidence he has to go the chapel to unlock a room again...) He could unlock the door to the parlor without going through the broken window, but that's assuming the parents left the parlor locked, and that they didn't take Kanon's key. And the only reason I would want to theorize George did that is to make it possible for him to write 07151129 on the wall.
So the way it works Shannon > Kumasawa > Gohda > Genji > Kinzo > Kanon > Shannon EDIT: Oh I forgot to mention. In the envelope found next to Kinzo was the letter that challenged them to solve the epitaph.
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Last edited by Judoh; 2010-05-18 at 18:34. |
2010-05-18, 18:10 | Link #10153 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2009
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Then again, I haven't read it, so I can't really judge. |
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2010-05-18, 18:12 | Link #10154 | |
Maelstorm-Fenrir
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2010-05-18, 18:14 | Link #10155 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Oh and btw Shannon was in that tea party too I think.
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2010-05-18, 18:18 | Link #10156 | |
Maelstorm-Fenrir
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2010-05-18, 18:21 | Link #10157 |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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This discussion of Episode 3 just gave me a somewhat plausible idea.
The "key" Ryuukishi mentioned is "The basic assumption that makes Room X a closed room is false." I thought of this after I realized that Ep. 3's first twilight isn't a closed room either, since the chapel was never locked to begin with, which allows Kanon's master key to be used to commit each and every other murder and then return it to his body. We've basically established that the lock on the chapel does not serve the purpose of actually locking it, but rather has to do with the epitaph. At the very least, the chapel was not locked for the first Twilight of Episode 2. The assumption is that it was, but this isn't true. Every closed room is based on Assumption X that something is true. Battler's closed room is only created because we assume Kanon left the closed room. That's why we have these elaborate DID theories that take Kanon out of the room. But if he died, this assumption isn't true. This key can be used to solve every closed room I've thought of so far....except maybe the Gohda and Kumasawa one, because I haven't thought about it yet and I have to go do stuff, so I'm posting this before I forget. Just a random musing. |
2010-05-18, 18:24 | Link #10158 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Any chance this thing from Dante's purgatory could be related to the "without love X" line?
http://www.wolfram.demon.co.uk/rp_dante_purgatory.html
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2010-05-18, 18:47 | Link #10159 |
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By the way Judoh, I'm with you on the George as the culprit theory. I think I may have an idea of the why he would be the culprit too, based on some of the theories people have put forth here. Namely that Kinzo is a magician in the stage-magic sense.
We've all noticed that George has a source of magic information. What if he IS the successor to Kinzo in terms of stage-magic? What if he is one of the few people on the island capable of the slight-of-hand tricks that Kinzo may have drilled into some of them? (i.e. Shannon and Rosa.) Being named successor in this sense may have created this idea in his mind that he is the real successor to the family wealth and power as well. We've seen in some fantasy scenes that he has no problem accepting this. And so the why is that he's already named successor and acts as one, in respect to 'magic.' And that extends to his idea that he should be the family's successor as well. I could go on more about how he and Hideyoshi have a deal although he has his own designs with a live with Shannon, but... I believe there isn't anything new as to 'why.' Also, this theory isn't complete because it still fails to explain the deal with Kanon and the 'closed' rooms... 8) |
2010-05-18, 18:57 | Link #10160 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Kanon is a representation of George's past! George once said that when he was young he was weak and bullied a lot. Hideyoshi has also put in lots of of effort to get George experienced with work. It's possible that at one point in time George worked for 3 years on Rokkenjima as the servant Kanon to gain experience in the value of money. How about that Shkanon theory!!
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