Nanoha Manga Discussion

[Koveras Alvane]

Originally Posted by Keroko

I'm amused that people are actually still debating whether the Hucks are evil or not. It's almost as if Hayate getting stabbed was like saying "There, you see? We're evil! You believe us now? No? Then Vita's next!"

Wasn't it? :-\

EDIT: Page claim for you-know-who.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Keroko

I'm amused that people are actually still debating whether the Hucks are evil or not. It's almost as if Hayate getting stabbed was like saying "There, you see? We're evil! You believe us now? No? Then Vita's next!"

To be fair, there is still some doubt. I mean, the virus apparently forces them to kill in order to live, so while not a nice thing, it's not exactly evil; just selfish. We do know that Veyron killed some nuns, and it's likely Cypha killed a village, butshe could have been just trying to goad Signum.

So I wouldn't say the Hucks are evil so much yet, at least all of them. I'm getting a vibe of "some of the Hucks will die for the sins of the others, while the others will be cured and rehabilitated." I think Veyron and Cypha may die, and possibly Karen.

Hayate's stabbing raises some interesting questions, though. Without proper context, why didn't Karen go for a more sure-kill move? She broke up Erio and Caro's Strike Cannons, apparently, but didn't lop of Hayate's head or slice her in half? As bad as we may think the Hucks to be, it seems like they are going out of their way not to kill unnecessarily, just like Fortis said.

Although Deville snapping Isis's neck is debatable, if she really is a cyborg or something, the Huck's would know it and thus know how much punishment she could possibly take without dying (and he did take the action to protect a member of his family). They did think she was rather dangerous, and since they don't fear magic, it has to be for another reason.

[Koveras Alvane]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

So I wouldn't say the Hucks are evil so much yet, at least all of them. I'm getting a vibe of "some of the Hucks will die for the sins of the others, while the others will be cured and rehabilitated." I think Veyron and Cypha may die, and possibly Karen.

Veyron, fine. But Cypha and Karen should be kept alive as personal slaves to Signum and Hayate, respectively, for all eternity.

Although Deville snapping Isis's neck is debatable, if she really is a cyborg or something, the Huck's would know it and thus know how much punishment she could possibly take without dying (and he did take the action to protect a member of his family). They did think she was rather dangerous, and since they don't fear magic, it has to be for another reason.

If you recall, the Eclipse Vision (seen through Thoma's eyes) couldn't identify Isis as anything but a vague major threat. I don't see why Deville should be able to discern more about her in the short time he has seen her in Reacted form. And just to remind you, Combat Cyborgs are ostensibly non-magical, too.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Laith

Yeah I kinda knew I did a mistake before posting it but hey a healthy friendly discussion everynow and then is good right? =D

Yup, discussion help to clarify things and points of view, i don't know how much i will prolong this surprisingly period of sudden lucidness. But i think i'm finally finished with my period of absolute rage against the huckebein and starte to view them as actual characters(save for Cypha, hey! give me some time to get over it xDU).

So far i find Veyron interesting, Arnage funny and Devill totally Badass. Fortis is annoying to me for the most part and i find Stella scary, i don't talk about cypha for the moment but Karen looks promising. I know it sounds very superficial because we only get her name, the fact that she stabbs Hayate and one pic, but in said pic she's impalling her with a serious expression and a shadow over her eyes(both cool traits) and taking into consideration that she's the leader of the group that make think and considerate that we're talking about someone who gives orders to people like Fortis and Cypha, Karen definetly appoints to have a strong personality to command the group and make the other Hucks own personalities to blend(which is VITAL at this point for their characterization). For the first time in 7 months i finally can say that i'm impatient for the next chapter of this manga.

Originally Posted by Laith

Also Signum is not over the top badass, she is more honor-bounded than everyone.

Probably "Over-the-Top" wasn't the right word to say. I'm referring that is on StrikerS when Signum's wionning streak became more obvious giving the illusion that she is "unbeatable", an illusion that fooled some part of the fanbase into believing that she's the best combat mage in the series(with me as one of the worst examples i might to add xDU). Back in A's while she represents a big threat by herself, she looked like a much more balanced character, struggling to defeat Fate adn getting fooled by the Lieze twins at the end(also getting asleep on the couch and drinking warm milk also helps to soft her image a lot xD). It take more than half a year but i'm more or less opened my eyes, as a badass she's on the same level as the rest of the cast, no better no worse, as a character she lacks developement but still have enough to fit into the rooster(specially within the Yagami family), so while i'm still a little bit apalled by the lie of "Super Signum" i still like her somewhat so i hope she get better.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane

Wasn't it? :-\

EDIT: Page claim for you-know-who.

To be honest, I am putting myself in the shoes of those Hayate fans who had shit rubbed on their face since StrikerS. "She will get her time in the limeligh... OH LOOK SHE GOT STABBED!!" Fuck, Shikamaru was given his awesome moments, Usopp was shown growing to be a badass, but Hayate? Noooooo.

Tsuzuki should just get on with it, kill the Wolkies and put their them out of their shafting misery.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Tsuzuki should just get on with it, kill the Wolkies and put their them out of their shafting misery.

I couldn't deny how attractive that options looked to me at several times xDU

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

To be fair, there is still some doubt.

"Kay, of we go then. Oi! Hammer girl! Your turn!"

I can think of several ways to use that virus in productive ways that don't involve slaughtering whatever gets in your path. I have no doubt we'll see some befriending, but that will be more "Turn your back to the dark side" than "You're not really evil, just misunderstood."

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane

If you recall, the Eclipse Vision (seen through Thoma's eyes) couldn't identify Isis as anything but a vague major threat. I don't see why Deville should be able to discern more about her in the short time he has seen her in Reacted form. And just to remind you, Combat Cyborgs are ostensibly non-magical, too.

Remember, they stripped Isis naked because they viewed her as a greater than Touma. Think about that for a second. If Isis is a combat cyborg, then she has great strength and the power to hurt them, since she wouldn't be fighting with magic. As a Huck, that would worry me. It's partly why I wondered why RF6 didn't bring more combat cyborgs in on this. Dieci, Wendi, and Otto for long-range fire support, and then Sein could get Nove, Deed, and Cinque aboard.

[itanshi1]

Now that is a good point, but that makes it a Stereo Drama and not a premier Manga series :/ so sad

[Justin_Brett]

That's a good point, Kaijo: maybe Isis' IS (if she has one) is really something, then?

And while we're mentioning Veyron, they ever gonna get back to that rivalry thing with Touma? Dude did have dreams about the guy grasping his chin. While Touma was a shota. >_>

[Kaijo]

I think we already see her IS: making a gas and making it go boom. Also giving her knowledge of many different mixtures. Also note that we never see her magic circle, heh.

One thing that struck me, is that Isis knows how to create all these mixtures, at the young age of 15. Either she's a master chemist, she's got cyborg brain assistance.

[Justin_Brett]

That doesn't seem quite enough when you match it up to what Touma's pulled off so far. Them knowing what mixtures she could use wouldn't really make sense, either...

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

One thing that struck me, is that Isis knows how to create all these mixtures, at the young age of 15. Either she's a master chemist, she's got cyborg brain assistance.

That wouldn't be so unusual. It reminds me of how Peter Parker's spider powers give him the instinctive knowledge of how to combine certain enzymes and chemicals to make the fluid of his web-shooters(if only Isis also counted with an spider-sesne ...poor girl xDU).

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

That doesn't seem quite enough when you match it up to what Touma's pulled off so far. Them knowing what mixtures she could use wouldn't really make sense, either...

Take into consideration that Arnage took away most of Isis's stuff. She probaby have more dangerous tricks under her sleeve.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

That doesn't seem quite enough when you match it up to what Touma's pulled off so far. Them knowing what mixtures she could use wouldn't really make sense, either...

Touma? You mean Isis? I don't think they knew what mixtures she would use; just that they could analyze her and see she was a combat cyborg. They wouldn't know her IS, but probably informed enough to know that cyborgs do have IS's. Thus they took everything away from her to be safe; they didn't know what she could use against them. Only that it would be non-magical and thus troublesome.

It would be like taking away Dieci's gun or Nove's skates.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

It would be like taking away Dieci's gun or Nove's skates.

Poor Dieci T-T. Nove at least have her Gun Knuckle and her ass kicking abilities xDU.

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by Keroko

I'm amused that people are actually still debating whether the Hucks are evil or not. It's almost as if Hayate getting stabbed was like saying "There, you see? We're evil! You believe us now? No? Then Vita's next!"

That doesn't make them evil. Of course, what is 'evil' exactly? All the killing/maiming the Hucks have done were only a means to an end. A powerful enemy is attacking them, and they're fighting back. Is that inherently evil? Or is it not their human right to act in self defense, to prioritize their own well being when their lives are threatened?

So the author is doing something you don't like. Well, no one's forcing you to continue reading this are they? If it's too much for you you can just walk away.

[Yasanagi]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

I think we already see her IS: making a gas and making it go boom.

In that case, her new official battle cry is "SUCK GAS, EVILDOER!!"

[Kikaifan]

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

That doesn't make them evil. Of course, what is 'evil' exactly? All the killing/maiming the Hucks have done were only a means to an end. A powerful enemy is attacking them, and they're fighting back. Is that inherently evil? Or is it not their human right to act in self defense, to prioritize their own well being when their lives are threatened?

So the author is doing something you don't like. Well, no one's forcing you to continue reading this are they? If it's too much for you you can just walk away.

Oh, yeah, killing people is fine, as long as you have a reason.

Everyone has a reason. Sorry, you're the one who seems like you can't handle how it's being written. There Hucks have minimal moral ambiguity.

[LoweGear]

Hmm... do we still not have a Force NEXT for this month?

[aers]

I don't think there is one.