[manga] Improved rasengan vs simple chidori?

[Bijuu Killer]

Originally Posted by Missilebuster

naruto could easily kill sousuke with one wind rasengan vs chidori/raikiri, the problem is sasuke might avoid a 1v1 rasengan vs chidori head on thing, and the fact that he doesnt want to kill sasuke

You forgot two things. One, Sasuke is faster than Naruto, with drugs the difference is huge, and two, he is a Sharingan master.

Sasuke should be able to dodge such an obvious destructive attack and counter with Chidori, unless he is in some kind of bind.

[Juruzu]

lol don't forget sasgay still has that unknown technique..
it has a chance of being Ameretsu? Fire Justsu that can beat wind..
I really think NAruto should learn another element like water..
that or he secretly has a fire affinity also due to the Kyuubis chakra where fire fight fire.. (valley of the end rasengan possibility of it being a fire rasengan?)
Fire vs Lightning kinda evens out.. doesnt it?

"Backfire"--- > You can take out flames with fire itself XD

[0TaKu0]

Originally Posted by Juruzu

lol don't forget sasgay still has that unknown technique..
it has a chance of being Ameretsu? Fire Justsu that can beat wind..
I really think NAruto should learn another element like water..
that or he secretly has a fire affinity also due to the Kyuubis chakra where fire fight fire.. (valley of the end rasengan possibility of it being a fire rasengan?)
Fire vs Lightning kinda evens out.. doesnt it?

"Backfire"--- > You can take out flames with fire itself XD

Naruto also has "That Jutsu" as well, on top of his New Ultimate Jutsu, but lets not turn this in to a "Naruto's that jutsu is tails" thread. Impossible for it to be Amaterasu considering you need the MS to use it, unless he has already attained the MS and we just don’t know yet (doubt it). As for Naruto having a second element, most people think its Water if he does have one, and others think its fire because of the kyubi, but mainly everｙone thinks Naruto will stay with one element (wind) and hone it to the point where its strong enough.

[Missilebuster]

Originally Posted by Bijuu Killer

You forgot two things. One, Sasuke is faster than Naruto, with drugs the difference is huge, and two, he is a Sharingan master.

Sasuke should be able to dodge such an obvious destructive attack and counter with Chidori, unless he is in some kind of bind.

no i rly didnt forget that... i said if they do another head on clash, and said that it might not because sasuke will pobly avoid such a situation

[Juruzu]

MOST people think its Water if he does have one, and OTHERS think its fire because of the kyubi, but MAINLY EVERYONE thinks Naruto will stay with one element (wind) and hone it to the point where its strong enough.

its like a 33/33/33 spread
...lol damnit KIshi decide olredy XD

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by 0TaKu0

Naruto also has "That Jutsu" as well, on top of his New Ultimate Jutsu, but lets not turn this in to a "Naruto's that jutsu is tails" thread. Impossible for it to be Amaterasu considering you need the MS to use it, unless he has already attained the MS and we just don’t know yet (doubt it). As for Naruto having a second element, most people think its Water if he does have one, and others think its fire because of the kyubi, but mainly everｙone thinks Naruto will stay with one element (wind) and hone it to the point where its strong enough.

I'm thinking Naruto's "that jutsu" is a no-show, a concept that Kishimoto forgot about or decided not to through with. Usually the way it works is that the hero develops a technique, shows it off in a battle or two until he is beaten, then goes on to develop a new more powerful technique for the upcoming battles. It's odd to say that Naruto has this new jutsu, give him several opportunities where he could've used it, and then go on to have him create what's supposed to be his ultimate technique without using it.

Originally Posted by Juruzu

MOST people think its Water if he does have one, and OTHERS think its fire because of the kyubi, but MAINLY EVERYONE thinks Naruto will stay with one element (wind) and hone it to the point where its strong enough.

its like a 33/33/33 spread
...lol damnit KIshi decide olredy XD

I'm going to with the Naruto doesn't have a second element crowd. In fact, I'm hoping that the whole elemental justu strength and weakness thing is something they just concentrate for the current battle in the manga and then lay off of it for the rest of the battles. I just don't want all the battles to be reduced to "Uh-oh, he used a fire jutsu, I'd better counter with a water jutsu!". I mean they've used elemental jutsu all throughout the series, but we didn't hear the characters planning all their strategies around them. I hope it goes back to being that way.

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by Bijuu Killer

You forgot two things. One, Sasuke is faster than Naruto, with drugs the difference is huge, and two, he is a Sharingan master.

Sasuke should be able to dodge such an obvious destructive attack and counter with Chidori, unless he is in some kind of bind.

We don't know the actual speed difference between Naruto and Sasuke. Did I miss a quote from the manga that specifically mentions about their speed difference? If the only source is when Sasuke approached Naruto, then, it is similar to saying Kurenai is faster than Itachi.

Secondly, Chidori can only result in Sasuke's death, as wind is more powerful than lightning, and even if he can dodge the attack, the range of the attack is pretty large. Even Oro with his Hokage level abilities could barely dodge a quite easily predictable (but at the same time quite destructive) attack (not even Sharingan is needed to predict the attack) with a pretty big cost. Sasuke may not have more than one lives to escape that kind of attack.

[0TaKu0]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I'm thinking Naruto's "that jutsu" is a no-show, a concept that Kishimoto forgot about or decided not to through with. Usually the way it works is that the hero develops a technique, shows it off in a battle or two until he is beaten, then goes on to develop a new more powerful technique for the upcoming battles. It's odd to say that Naruto has this new jutsu, give him several opportunities where he could've used it, and then go on to have him create what's supposed to be his ultimate technique without using it.

I know exactly what you mean trust me. We should have seen "That Jutsu" already, it just does not make sense that Naruto is creating a New Technique yet, he has not reviled his "That Jutsu" yet... yes it's a possibility Kishimoto scrapped the idea, or literally forgot about it (I doubt that’s possible with his level of expertise and all the hired help).

I just well I guess I'm holding on just like most of us who watch the fillers are holding on for part 2 to start, I mean it's possible that Kishimoto is trying something new, maybe he wants the fans to forget "That Jutsu" and them wham like a brick to the face HIRASHIN!!! No ok, but you get the point lol. I cant lie I will be disappointed in Kishi if the case is he scrapped it or even forgot about it (prays that’s not the case), that would really degrade his writing ability's as a Mangaka.

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I just don't want all the battles to be reduced to "Uh-oh, he used a fire jutsu, I'd better counter with a water jutsu!"

Agreed, also I figured something out about the elemental chart and why it is the way it is Heh, oh.. that Kishimoto. See he knew extreme fans of Naruto would say "Wtf how come they didn’t apply this shit before with all the battles they fought". Ah HA!, the reason the elemental chart barely makes any sense is because it was created by going through all the past battles, and all the Jutsu's were accounted for. Rather then created on a whim, lmao no wonder its so screwed up, this kind of tells us it's something new that was created to "spice" up the Manga, but it also kind of explains why its all over the place because they had to go back and take each Jutsu used and create something that worked so the fans would not get angry or find a flaw / plot hole in it.

I personally, am not adapting to it well in fact I think its kind of cheesy and corny =\, not the whole elemental existence / manipulation deal, but the whole weaker then stronger then crap. Though, I guess in a way it cant be helped right? I mean if there's good there must be evil, if there's elements there must be balance (greater then, less then).

[LostOnTheU-rturn]

Originally Posted by 0TaKu0

I know exactly what you mean trust me. We should have seen "That Jutsu" already, it just does not make sense that Naruto is creating a New Technique yet, he has not reviled his "That Jutsu" yet... yes it's a possibility Kishimoto scrapped the idea, or literally forgot about it (I doubt that’s possible with his level of expertise and all the hired help).

I just well I guess I'm holding on just like most of us who watch the fillers are holding on for part 2 to start, I mean it's possible that Kishimoto is trying something new, maybe he wants the fans to forget "That Jutsu" and them wham like a brick to the face HIRASHIN!!! No ok, but you get the point lol. I cant lie I will be disappointed in Kishi if the case is he scrapped it or even forgot about it (prays that’s not the case), that would really degrade his writing ability's as a Mangaka.

I don't he think he forgot about it, i think it has always been the Kyuubi tails. This makes sense because the way Jiraiya described it was an attack that not only could be used against his opponents but also his companion, which is why he said not to use it. I sincerely doubt that Hiraishin is that jutsu, as it doesn't put his companion in danger.

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by LostOnTheU-rturn

...This makes sense because the way Jiraiya described it was an attack that not only could be used against his opponents but also his companion, which is why he said not to use it...

That is only what some believe based on what they saw later on, not because Jiraiya said something about that.

[Juruzu]

Originally Posted by Bijuu Killer
You forgot two things. One, Sasuke is faster than Naruto, with drugs the difference is huge, and two, he is a Sharingan master.

Sasuke should be able to dodge such an obvious destructive attack and counter with Chidori, unless he is in some kind of bind.

nawww... sasuke won't dodge the attack.. we all know he'll try to hit with his chidori or new attack just to prove he is more powerful.. against Naruto he is more of a "fire on fire" type of guy..

[Xrayz0r]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Actually both are white. The first time the Raikiri/Chidori was used in the anime the color was unknown so they just used the color they had chosen for regular chakra in the anime.
Then the 1st Data Book came out and stated how it produced a white glow so they made the Chidori white instead of blue.

Hmm.. Yeah that's what I figured at first. But also the second time he used it it gave off a blue aura. Whereas Sasukes, only a few episodes ahead, was completely white.

Not entirely sure if the Databook was released between those.


As for Rurik...

NO!

What characters say is what characters say. If Tsunade doesn't know Kakashi copied Rasengan in secret, then that's her problem, not ours.


But, this was just brought up by bijuu killer to get away as far as he can from the main point to not make me go on about it because he realised the mistake in what he said.

Fact is, he prolly forgot about the whole point for Naruto to learn this jutsu while others definitely would never be able to, so he came up with a theory that was already literally disproved at the start of all this in the manga. The reason Kakashi lets Naruto try what he himself and Yondaime never could, is because he believes Naruto has potential to surpass Yondaime, to break all limits and accomplish what no one else can.

Kakashi is a genius up to the point he can do anything he himself deems possible for him to accomplish. Not like he's a genius that surprises even himself like WOAH I actually developed Raiton Rasengan all suddenly zomfg I pwn wtf.

It's pretty ironic like coming up with a theory that was constantly talked about in manga already and also constantly disproved.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Improved Rasengan win obviously win...vs normal chidori....there is no point in improving the rasengan if it cant even overpower chidori...they were balanced from the start...

And NO....it's unlikely that Sasuke can combine elemental or elemental+shape manipulation to a level of the new Rasengan(that was it right?) in attacks aswell....if he can...well that's extremly lame then...since this new Rasengan is the max out of the max...

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Xrayz0r

As for Rurik...

NO!

What characters say is what characters say. If Tsunade doesn't know Kakashi copied Rasengan in secret, then that's her problem, not ours.

I get your point, but I think people debate things for theyr own convenience.

Things said in the Manga are not absolute, not even What Kishimoto states himself, because this can be later on change by the Author Himself, however that does not means that what a character said in someone point should not be taken in consideration because you say this is what the character thin, let me remind you that what a character thinks is not what they think, unless you believe this are real people.

For instance, Jiraiya said once:

“Yondaime is the greatest Shinoby”

Now, Using your logic, he is not, the greatest Shinoby is a Shinoby from another Unknown village, and it doesn’t matter if he is not presented in the Manga, is not our problem that Jiraiya is not aware of another Shinoby who is greater than Yondaime.

I bet that If last Year I would had say Kakashi can do Rasengan you would had said This was never said, and Tsunade said otehrwise. As in fact the same thing you are condemning here you are using it yourself:

As he mentioned, even Yondaime wouldn't be capable of such a thing even with help of two bunshins.

We can’t believe Kakashi words here, and Yondaime could do this

And now that I read all the post let make this clear. The one who forgot something was YOU, you forgot Tsunade said that only Jiraiya and Yondaime could do Rasengan, so you tried to bash the other poster, when the other poster showed you were it was mentioned, you changed your view to hide your obvious mistake:

Originally Posted by Bijuu Killer

Yeah, and it was said only Yondaime and Jirayia can do Rasengan. Only an Uchiha can learn the MS. Have you noticed something yet?

Your Response and you repeated it twice:

Originally Posted by Xrayz0r

It was never stated only Yondaime and Jiraiya could do Rasengan. It was never stated only an Uchiha could gain MS. (lol@people making crap up)

Originally Posted by Xrayz0r

Hey, kid.

It was never stated that only Yondaime and Jiraiya know Rasengan. In fact, that is a super bunch of crap that I laugh at because it was made up by someone who's trying to talk his way out of something.

Accept your mistake as anyone can make mistakes.

[Xrayz0r]

I sure agree with the above thing as for a change you were being reasonable. And it doesn't contradict much what I tried to make clear here, so it's fine.

So far as the bottom thing goes.....I don't get completely why I have accept a mistake as all you did was point out my being right.

"Stated" implies that something's stated as a fact, which only Kishimoto can do. At least, that's the definition of stated which I got into this argument with. Stated and said/mentioned are different things.

And on a side note, contrary to popular belief since ever the chapter came out cause probably someone back in the days screwed up with a dumbass theory which everyone suddenly believed in, Itachi did NOT and NEVER say Kakashi wouldn't be able to develop MS.
He said that only another Uchiha would ever be able to defeat him. As possibly, he assumed that only Sasuke would be left capable of one day aquiring MS, thus being able to resist/counter Itachi's as in nullifying eachother and fight will full strength to see who's the most powerful. As probably also, he figures there's nothing and no one else in the world capable of fighting or overcoming MS, it's like undefeatable.

Anyway, the reason we actually got into this whole argument was killers example of these two things because I pointed out how Kakashi specifically said that both he and Yondaime would never be able to apply physical recomposition to Rasengan because it's just the "knack" they miss. And Naruto doesn't.

It was kinda funny just because he came up with the possibility of Kakashi completing this, while all the time people had been pointed out how that sure was impossible from the start because Kakashi had already tried, and came up with this conclusion: he can't do it.

People can keep ranting and complain about it "but...but.... but Kakashi sensei sama is a genius, de can do it =( =( =(!!!", but he can't if he says he can't. That fact remains.

[Sasuke_Akatsuki]

Originally Posted by Xrayz0r

And on a side note, contrary to popular belief since ever the chapter came out cause probably someone back in the days screwed up with a dumbass theory which everyone suddenly believed in, Itachi did NOT and NEVER say Kakashi wouldn't be able to develop MS.
He said that only another Uchiha would ever be able to defeat him. As possibly, he assumed that only Sasuke would be left capable of one day aquiring MS, thus being able to resist/counter Itachi's as in nullifying eachother and fight will full strength to see who's the most powerful. As probably also, he figures there's nothing and no one else in the world capable of fighting or overcoming MS, it's like undefeatable.

You make alot of sense sometimes.Keep it up

[Sasuke_Akatsuki]

Improved rasengan vs simple chidori??? Of course the improved rasengan would be stronger i hate the admit it but Naruto has gotten alot stronger...I'll be looking forward to Naruto and Sasuke next meeting, when Sasuke kicks his ass there won't be no excuses "Naruto was tired" or "Naruto didn't want to fight Sasuke"

[Mr. Johnny 5]

This can be discussed for all eternity..about Yondaimes strenght or abilities.
The fact that a person...respected and considred legendary and has faith in a boy (Naruto) means something...and when he is praising someone (his former student) means alot!

As for Itachi...when he mentioned a 3rd MS user he definetly didnt ment Kakashi.
Why?
Well i am not sure what Kakashi did but when they met again....Itachi was pretty shocked (normally he seems as if he uses valium all the time...) "Kakashi you couldnt have..."

Plus repeated things like "Only a person with the same bloodline can defeat me"...which is nonsense ofcourse...he claims that he is (atleast) the 3rd strongest in the world...counting Sasuke, himself and the other one.

And for Kakashi's Rasengan...well...it's obvious that Kakashi didnt use it often...or pretty much never...i think the fact that he used Rasengan 1 time...and suddenly appeared with his hand (same) in bandage..means that the control (rotation) is too much for him.

Remember when Naruto couldnt hold 2 chopsticks because of the Rasengan training...and ofcourse Naruto can do more because of the Kyuubi's healing+chakra...

[Bjuu Killer]
Sasuke can dodge the direct hit but not the impact...

Afterall...after Naruto completes it it'll be like this.


There is no way Sasuke can escape that...

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Xrayz0r

I sure agree with the above thing as for a change you were being reasonable. And it doesn't contradict much what I tried to make clear here, so it's fine.

So far as the bottom thing goes.....I don't get completely why I have accept a mistake as all you did was point out my being right.

"Stated" implies that something's stated as a fact, which only Kishimoto can do. At least, that's the definition of stated which I got into this argument with. Stated and said/mentioned are different things.

I understand your point of view and I cant make you change your stance regarding this, but, as far as I go, for me as I said (and many others) Something is stated just when is said in the Manga, because, c'mom Xray....How many times Kishi has stated something directly himself without the use of Characters of the Manga?? and isn't what a Character Say a reflection of what Ksihi is saying???? Narrative tools?

Is really not that hard to accept what is been said in a Manga, of course having an open mind that this been said can be subject to Change, As I said nothing is absolute.

Regarding the mistake it seems, and other posters agree, that given what the other poster said, you were saying that It was never stated that JIriaya and Yondaime were the only one that could do Rasengan, however, most people here take as definition that stated,is any quote that is mentioned in the Manga.

So, Bijuu Killer was not Incorrect or Making up things, indeed it was stated (inside of what most people understand as Stated)that Only JIraiaya and Yondaime could do Rasengan, So, it could be a misunderstanding from your part, or forgot that quote, or a mistake. as any of this thing can happen to best there is.

Either way, we are babbling just about nothing as Iwas not even looking to enlogate this debate....

[Xrayz0r]

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

Afterall...after Naruto completes it it'll be like this.


There is no way Sasuke can escape that...

But it will make the fire stronger.