2008-09-27, 14:36 | Link #121 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Suburban DC
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I have a feeling that Wall Street justice will happen MUCH later. Plus while i'm not happy with the plan that Congress is cooking up, I don't see how you can really be against it, I see no alternative rather than temporary gov't intervention.
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2008-09-27, 14:56 | Link #122 |
Putting Truth First.
IT Support
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But, why government should spend their money for something the speculator did?
Is it better to stop money speculating than inject a lot of money to save the economy? I think it just stop problem for now, but later? Who knows?
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2008-09-27, 15:04 | Link #123 | |
Gregory House
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The irony of it all is just amazing.
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2008-09-27, 15:06 | Link #124 | |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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A lot of small business relay on shart term loans to cover expense while they wait to get paid by thier clients. Currently these loans are getting made and that is having a overall down effect on the economy as small business can't get the loans they need. The reason why the banks are making less of these loans are because they are hard time borrowing money themselves form fund companies and instutation investors. Who are scare silly of making loans. Money = grease Banks/investment companies = gears No money = gears grind to a halt = economy collaspe.
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2008-09-27, 19:36 | Link #125 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
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A letter from a Bank CEO against the Bail Out plan
Here's a link to a letter from BB&T's chairman to Congress regarding their bailout plan. He doesn't like it. His bank doesn't need it.
For John Allison, the high-risk rollers on Wall Street are getting too much of the ear of Congress and having too much say in resolving the financial nightmare that they created. That's why Allison, the chairman and chief executive of BB&T Corp., submitted a 14-point letter Tuesday to all 535 members of Congress with a simple message regarding the proposed $700 billion bailout. "There is no panic on Main Street and in sound financial institutions," he wrote. "The problems are in high-risk financial institutions and on Wall Street." He said that it is important that "Congress hear from the well-run financial institutions, as most of the concerns have been focused on the problem companies. It is extremely important that the bailout not damage well-run companies." Allison's opinion is seconded by local community-bank officials and community-bank trade groups. http://media.gatewaync.com/wsj/pdfs/2008/09/allison.pdf |
2008-09-27, 23:08 | Link #126 | ||||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Speculation is one of the things that will have to get tackled, but that's a long-term fix to prevent this kind of thing from happening again, and won't do much to calm the markets right now. Then again, just injecting a lot of money isn't really the answer either. So far this year, the various American government agencies have already done so to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars, and it's only been enough to avert immediate catastrophe. Quote:
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2008-09-27, 23:24 | Link #127 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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In the US Northwest .. .small and medium businesses are the vast majority and employ most of the people: they can't get loans. They can't get operating credit so they can survive between doing the work and getting paid. Many of them are starting to close - and they are perfectly good profitable companies with good business plans and good history on paying their bills.
An immediate way to stop a spiral might be setting up a process for them to continue to get operational loan credit (from the SBA?) until the banks decide the Red Alert is over.
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2008-09-27, 23:57 | Link #128 | |
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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The problem is still the bad loans written on homes that are losing owners and value. The bailout plan should address that, imo. The effect would give banks reassurance that they'll get paid for those loans, and investors will have reassurance that they'll get paid from the bank. Address it from the ground up monetarily, and revamp the regulation system from the top down. I'd rather Congress not rush this. If it means delaying recess, good. People are worried that the big banks failing will mean the end of the economy, I can see that viewpoint but we have laws to buffer the market for that. We call it Bankruptcy. Under Bankruptcy law, businesses and individuals are given opportunities to restructure their finances or sell assets to handle the debt load. They are allowed to operate during this procedure under the protection of law while working out methods of repaying the debt. Bankruptcy is a bad thing, because it's a last resort before giving up. But it does work. Is that any different than a last resort bailout that no one knows will even help? I've already admitted that my understanding of all of this is limited, so be gentle on my most likely naive views here. But from my perspective, spending billions of dollars to hold up failing companies hasn't helped, so why would even more money that effectively broadens that scope do the trick now? I'm just not convinced that this trickle down effect will work.
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2008-09-28, 00:12 | Link #129 |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Land of the rising sun
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I was watching a Japanese commentary program this morning showing the eerie similarity of the Japanese bubble burst of the 90's.
The Japanese government at the end inject 350 billion dollars to regain confidence back to financial institutions with major banks going bankrupt left and right which have not been recovered till this day. There are still problems but Japan was able to make it through because of a strong export industry. I wonder how the US(and I don't mean just the government) is planning to regain confidence back to it's finacial institution without federal fundings? I can say one thing major central bank already have little confidence in the FRB and the US federal government inept to show initiative and congress is just spreading the wound. |
2008-09-28, 00:52 | Link #130 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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2008-09-28, 00:57 | Link #131 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Suburban DC
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I rarely read newspaper opinion pages (although the Post is one of the most varied) but this one in the DC Post by a Yale Econ Professor proved interesting;
It's Called; Everybody Calm Down. A Government Hand In the Economy Is as Old as the Republic. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...d=opinionsbox1 Tell me what you Econ heads think especially, cause this isn't my forte at ALL. |
2008-09-28, 01:26 | Link #132 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Land of the rising sun
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First there is agriculture, that is why the Mr. Bush wanted to promote Bio-fuel to "Enhance" the price of grain that no other single nation can match in quantity. Second is weapons. US is the top weapons dealer of the world. Third is avionics but this is meeting heavy competition with European rival. Recently Boeing had a major blow with the Fuel tanker deal with the military, further expanding the problem with 787 "Dreamliner" which have missed production schedule so many time. Forth is computer software but this is also meeting tough competition with various rivals and piracy. Fifth is the movie industry but this is also showing fatigue with lack of original material and the ever rising price in production. I also believe the US have a formidable chemical industry but unfortunaltely very limited for export due to enviormental problems. As for machinery and/or construction material production, the US had placed too much emphasis on domestic market not being able to adopt the metric system which greatly hinders export. (No nation is going to by a 1/2 inchΦ bolts and what not's) The biggest problem the US forsees in the near future is as spoken before, the near sightness of managment shipping their manufacturing facilities overseas so to squeeze HR costs. From this any and all craftsmanship that resided within the various manufacturing industries either died out or was shipped out making it very difficult to regain the same height even if manufacturing industries come back. This is the biggest hidden problem US must face. |
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2008-09-28, 18:17 | Link #133 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
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1) we have the disease. 2) we have the symptom of the disease. He essay addresses 1) but not 2), and he provides no detail. The bail out bill address 2). From my point of view, problem of 1) we have. a) Change of leverage regulation from 7:1 to 40:1 b) The existence of unregulated CDS market. c) stated income loan ( liar loan ). This is not limited to subprime. d) Rating agency is practically worthless. e) VERY low interest rate f) Interest only loan with adjusted interest rate. g) 100% financing i) opaque CDO j) CEO and executives compensation structure ( encourage taking risk upfront) more? Problem of 2) we have : 1) Credit crunch caused by banks unable to lend due to trashed balance sheet. You, Me, Privity equity, money <------> Banks <-------> Catapiller or normal companies that need short term financing. See. The problem is banks in the middle. To be specific, GS, MS, and probably the top 5 US bank. If you can hook left and right together bypassing the banks. You solve the problem and there is no need to bail out banks. |
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2008-09-28, 18:26 | Link #134 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
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IE : The big banks are losing market share in lending because of their trashy balance sheet and they don't like it. Quote:
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2008-09-29, 09:03 | Link #135 |
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
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Full text of proposed legislation:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_130063.html
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2008-09-29, 11:56 | Link #136 |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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form the look of the stock market today and the news coming out of Europe. It looks like while the US is the first to crash and burn, Europe is just a few behind in thier own ver of market collaspe.
anyone living in Europe wants to chime in on how the European financial market looks?
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2008-09-29, 12:23 | Link #137 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Editorial in the New York Times Business section:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/bu...em&oref=slogin Spoiler for lead paragraph...:
Every asset my wife and I own, mostly very conservative investments and real estate, is down at least 25% from 3 months ago ... approaching 40% if you go back a year. All due to the misrepresentations, mishandling, and scheming of the people neck deep subprime packaginag, derivatives, and credit-swap bets. Oh, some of it is due to mishandling the energy policies but meh... and we're in *GOOD* shape because we have little debt. Now multiply me and my attitude by millions of other middle-class voters ..... quite literally, there should be a number of CEOs and administration officials being hoisted by their petards, not being handed money to "solve the problem".
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Last edited by Vexx; 2008-09-29 at 12:37. |
2008-09-29, 13:01 | Link #138 |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Questions:
- how much influence do you and the other millions of other middle-class voters have over whether Paulson get another trillion of your dollars or not? Isn't it in the hands of the congress and government anyway? - how many of those millions are in agreement that Paulson shouldn't get that money? (And are willing, say, to write to their congressmen and swear to never again vote for them is Paulson gets the money?) |
2008-09-29, 13:09 | Link #139 | |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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2008-09-29, 13:17 | Link #140 |
cho~ kakkoii
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 3rd Planet
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525 points down.
Drop Drop Drop Drop Drop To be somewhat on topic, I know I'll be voicing my opinion in the upcoming election once I find out who were the representative in my area (if any) that voted "Yay" to this resecue plan.
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