AnimeSuki Forums

Seiryuu · 2010-10-09, 21:26

Man, that was quite a screw-up. And an incredibly stupid one. Why did they give ANN the vid before they even aired it though? Until it airs, it shouldn't be allowed to touch a computer with an active connection. If it is on computers, it should only be on computers that are isolated from the web and protected somehow to make sure that it can't get out, or at least to make sure that the only way it can get out is by using a camera to record as the show's playing on the screen, like happens with movies.

I know this is a bit of an exaggeration. But at the least, it should be kept very secure and protected from any possible distribution, and it probably shouldn't cross the ocean before the primary audience sees it.

Xacual · 2010-10-09, 21:28

Well yeah I mean it's common sense to not just put the page up until the episode begins airing but Funimation made the same mistake a while back with One Piece. Or at least protect it so it's not accessable before air time.

Also I really like the OP and animation, especially the start.

***relentlessflame*** · 2010-10-09, 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seiryuu

Man, that was quite a screw-up. And an incredibly stupid one. Why did they give ANN the vid before they even aired it though? [...] But at the least, it should be kept very secure and protected from any possible distribution, and it probably shouldn't cross the ocean before the primary audience sees it.

Well, the simulcasting companies do generally get the episode about a week (or so -- depends on the production) before airing in order to start working on their translation. This in theory shouldn't be a problem, but in this case they must have uploaded it to the production server, presumably as a way of distributing it to the internal team. Not even having a hash or some other variable that changes (beyond the episode number) is a sort of "n00b mistake" that I'm sure they won't be making going forward.

At least the good news for is that this was less than a day before, and not even further. Still, though this is like leaving freshly-baked cookies out in the open, it wasn't all that "nice" for the Internet to take them. (But, I mean, the fact that the Internet isn't nice isn't exactly news...)

karice67 · 2010-10-09, 22:13

(*____*) I'd have thought they'd have learnt from the previous incidents. I wanted to check out the ANN release too...(hadn't gotten round to it yet)

The 2ch reaction should be interesting...
(though what's sticking out at the moment is that some 4ch %&$#@#s are trying to agitate people...)

edit: a few Japanese people (or maybe just one?) are suggesting that it's a marketing ploy to generate publicity for the series.

winkel · 2010-10-09, 22:43

It'd be more likely as a marketing ploy if the episode was actually subbed. Putting it up raw means that no one intended it, and the only people it hurts are the Japanese companies and their demographic (lost TV ad time, viewings count, etc.)

A pity ANN had to mess up their first and last foray into the simulcast arena. At least they gave it a good try.

Midonin · 2010-10-09, 22:45

Why are you assuming it's their last? There's no evidence for that.

***relentlessflame*** · 2010-10-09, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkel

Putting it up raw means that no one intended it, and the only people it hurts are the Japanese companies and their demographic (lost TV ad time, viewings count, etc.)

I don't think they're counting that much on either ads or viewership when the show airs at 11:30pm or later. This isn't Prime Time Television here. That being said, I imagine Tokyo MX probably did something to get the privilege of first airing, so it will cause some trouble. Having shows leaked on the Internet before the airing date is never a good thing, especially from the producer's point of view.

karice67 · 2010-10-09, 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkel

It'd be more likely as a marketing ploy if the episode was actually subbed.

Nope. All the news articles and forum discussions this is generating would be the publicity that the posters were talking about.

I personally think the Japanese wouldn't do that, because the consequences far outway any benefits (if they even get any).

tsunade666 · 2010-10-09, 23:09

so it just means that episode 2 was been leaked for other country to watch it before even japanese people watch it?

how much will it hurt the japanese companies when an episode is been leaked before its airing time?

Midonin · 2010-10-09, 23:13

It happened last season too, and the answer is: since these things are riding on merchandise sales, not too much.

karice67 · 2010-10-09, 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsunade666

so it just means that episode 2 was been leaked for other country to watch it before even japanese people watch it?

how much will it hurt the japanese companies when an episode is been leaked before its airing time?

Negative publicity from people who think they'll do anything to get more consumers interested in the series? (i.e. from people who believe in the marketing ploy notion)

Loss of trust from the broadcast networks?

Later backlash from (overseas) fans because they may have to stop streaming the episodes for a time?

Which would lead to more people resorting to illegal means, thus helping to cultivate societies where more and more people think it's ok to get something for free simply because someone broke the law to make it available. => fewer people being willing to fork out money for DVDs/legal streaming sites.*

I'd say that it can probably hurt the Japanese companies a lot more than we'd like to think.

(*Though I do think that there are other related problems in the industry that they also have to address...which I won't go into here.)

winkel · 2010-10-09, 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I don't think they're counting that much on either ads or viewership when the show airs at 11:30pm or later. This isn't Prime Time Television here.

Don't broadcast companies pay for packages of shows? It's not fun for anyone to see something they paid for given away for free, especially like you said, Tokyo MX, since they get the first viewing, but it holds for all of the other stations too. And that negativity is going to go back to Aniplex and they're going to go straight to ANN.

Quote:

Originally Posted by karice67

Nope. All the news articles and forum discussions this is generating would be the publicity that the posters were talking about.

Publicity in the way of people reveling in the chaos, laughing at ANN, worrying about the future of simulcasts... nothing that has anything to do with the actual show. Not to mention Ep1 stream is down now, and the leaked Ep2 was only raw. How exactly would an average potential viewer be able to satisfy their curiosity gained by this 'hype' at this point? If this was all an attempt to get more people to watch Oreimo, I have to ask about the sanity of the marketing divisions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midonin

Why are you assuming it's their last? There's no evidence for that.

Aniplex gave ANN their first ever chance at simulcasting. And this is how it turns out for them. What makes you think Aniplex or other anime companies are just going to brush this off as nothing?

Midonin · 2010-10-09, 23:34

To err is human. Learn from mistakes, patch things up, and get the ball rolling once more. A similar leak happened last season, and things still went on as planned. I don't see how panicking is going to solve anything - it never does.

winkel · 2010-10-09, 23:36

And the same thing happened with Funimation and OnePiece, and they shut it down for 5+ months. And Funimation is a larger company with more clout and relations with the Japanese animation companies.

These things aren't without repercussions.

Midonin · 2010-10-09, 23:38

I know I'm probably being the wide-eyed idealist in this, such is the role I play upon the stage, but jumping right to the worst case scenario doesn't seem like the best alternative either.

karice67 · 2010-10-09, 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkel

Don't broadcast companies pay for packages of shows?

In the case of late night anime, the production committee pays the station to broadcast the show.

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkel

Publicity in the way of people reveling in the chaos, laughing at ANN, worrying about the future of simulcasts... *snip*.

*sighs* You do know that you don't have to try and convince me of anything? Please go back and read the rest of my post - the one you responded to here - and the thread of comments that led to it.

***relentlessflame*** · 2010-10-09, 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkel

Don't broadcast companies pay for packages of shows? It's not fun for anyone to see something they paid for given away for free, especially like you said, Tokyo MX, since they get the first viewing, but it holds for all of the other stations too. And that negativity is going to go back to Aniplex and they're going to go straight to ANN.

I'm not sure that broadcast companies always pay for late-night anime; I think it depends on the case. I am given the impression that sometimes the airtime is purchased by the publisher, sort of similar to the way we think of "infomercials" (and the ad time within is for companies affiliated with the anime). However, sometimes a show is produced in partnership with a TV network in exchange for first broadcast rights and, in some cases, merchandising rights. (As a famous recent example, K-On! was funded in part by the TV network TBS, and they managed a lot of the character goods marketing... which netted them a ton of cash.) So, as best as I can tell, sometimes the broadcasters contribute, and sometimes they don't. Again, giving the airing time for late-night shows, there's really not much in it for them in terms of ratings and ad time, so what they'd really want is a cut of the merchandise action.

Again, primetime shows are any entirely different animal.

winkel · 2010-10-09, 23:51

That sounds like a pretty unusual model. Why go through the effort of putting it on air then? They only make profits on video sales right? Why not just put money into CMs and go straight to video?

Though if you juxtapose it with merchandising, it might make sense. Advertising a new artist's single is probably more effective on TV than on video. Although if they wanted to tackle that, they could just resort to radio/music video channels like how music is advertised in the US. Most people in this day and age find their exposure to these things on the internet anyway, so other media is rather to simply cover all the bases.

And karice67, I know what you said, but you were also countering my point as well. Therefore I was defending my own points, regardless if they aligned with yours.

***relentlessflame*** · 2010-10-09, 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkel

That sounds like a pretty unusual model. Why go through the effort of putting it on air then? They only make profits on video sales right? Why not just put money into CMs and go straight to video?

Because people want to watch the show before they buy so they know if it's worth their money, keeping in mind that this late-night TV model predates the days of legal streaming. (It's also the evolution of the OVAs in the 90s that were, basically, just what you described.) And also, these days I think they make just as much money if not more on related merchandise (character goods, CDs, games, etc.) so they want to build as much buzz as possible. They call the model "media mix".

Edit: You added a paragraph, and yes... there are some pay TV channels like AT-X that specialize in anime (sort of like the music video channel example). But these are limited satellite offerings, so you hit a lot more people if you hit regular broadcast TV; it's late at night, but the fans know to watch (and there's always PVRs).

Edit 2: Anyway, realize we're veering a bit off-topic here, but this is "topical" and related to the news about this show, and I think it'll be over-shadowed pretty soon with Episode 2 impressions. If there continues to be a lot more news about it once the Ep 2 discussion starts in earnest, we can create a separate thread.

winkel · 2010-10-10, 00:05

But at the same time, there are also people who only watch shows once, and have no inclination to buy them ever again. I know that there are numerous shows I watched on CR/Hulu that I would never pay for actual DVDs/BDs for, simply because I only am interested in seeing them once, and I am sure I'm not alone. (To contrast, I also own so many anime DVDs, that I'm running out of storage space for). Forwarding it to video sales would push buying on potential interest and marketing push, and could actually lead to more sales. Kind of like the video game model.

Or to even be crazy, go reverse: to video first, and then months later, air it on TV to get new viewers.

I am quite aware of the history of late-night viewing, but the anime market today is hardly the anime market of yesteryear. As for related merchandise, they can still roll them out either before the first video hits stores, or simultaneously with each volume release. The videos and CMs and word of mouth will spread the buzz.

Because I feel there is no real need for companies to pander to fans anymore. They seem to always find what they want, when they want, without needing to be shown or told what to do. It's the causal viewers who probably have the sales potential, and it seems more likely for such a viewer to see an interesting video at the store and pick it up than wait up until 2-3AM in the morning to watch a string of anime.

2010-10-09, 21:28	Link #482
Xacual Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008	Well yeah I mean it's common sense to not just put the page up until the episode begins airing but Funimation made the same mistake a while back with One Piece. Or at least protect it so it's not accessable before air time. Also I really like the OP and animation, especially the start. __________________ I was influenced by a certain group overflowing with madness and started trying to write a story. Please give it a try. Crashed into Fantasy Last edited by Xacual; 2010-10-09 at 22:09.

2010-10-09, 22:13	Link #484
karice67 さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: in the land down under...	(____) I'd have thought they'd have learnt from the previous incidents. I wanted to check out the ANN release too...(hadn't gotten round to it yet) The 2ch reaction should be interesting... (though what's sticking out at the moment is that some 4ch %&$#@#s are trying to agitate people...) edit: a few Japanese people (or maybe just one?) are suggesting that it's a marketing ploy to generate publicity for the series. __________________ *How Suetsugu Yuki drew the cover for Chihayafuru* volume 34** Interview translations etc You must free yourself from that illusion, from the illusion that a story must have a beginning and an end. "No, you are not entitled to your opinion... You are only entitled to what you can argue for.” - Patrick Stokes Last edited by karice67; 2010-10-09 at 22:28.

2010-10-09, 23:09	Link #489
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	so it just means that episode 2 was been leaked for other country to watch it before even japanese people watch it? how much will it hurt the japanese companies when an episode is been leaked before its airing time? __________________ To A certain Lonely Hero

2010-10-09, 21:26	Link #481
Seiryuu Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003	Man, that was quite a screw-up. And an incredibly stupid one. Why did they give ANN the vid before they even aired it though? Until it airs, it shouldn't be allowed to touch a computer with an active connection. If it is on computers, it should only be on computers that are isolated from the web and protected somehow to make sure that it can't get out, or at least to make sure that the only way it can get out is by using a camera to record as the show's playing on the screen, like happens with movies. I know this is a bit of an exaggeration. But at the least, it should be kept very secure and protected from any possible distribution, and it probably shouldn't cross the ocean before the primary audience sees it.

2010-10-09, 22:43	Link #485
winkel Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009	It'd be more likely as a marketing ploy if the episode was actually subbed. Putting it up raw means that no one intended it, and the only people it hurts are the Japanese companies and their demographic (lost TV ad time, viewings count, etc.) A pity ANN had to mess up their first and last foray into the simulcast arena. At least they gave it a good try.

2010-10-09, 22:45	Link #486
Midonin Last Engage Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Florida	Why are you assuming it's their last? There's no evidence for that.

2010-10-09, 23:13	Link #490
Midonin Last Engage Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Florida	It happened last season too, and the answer is: since these things are riding on merchandise sales, not too much.

2010-10-09, 23:34	Link #493
Midonin Last Engage Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Florida	To err is human. Learn from mistakes, patch things up, and get the ball rolling once more. A similar leak happened last season, and things still went on as planned. I don't see how panicking is going to solve anything - it never does.

2010-10-09, 23:36	Link #494
winkel Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009	And the same thing happened with Funimation and OnePiece, and they shut it down for 5+ months. And Funimation is a larger company with more clout and relations with the Japanese animation companies. These things aren't without repercussions.

2010-10-09, 23:38	Link #495
Midonin Last Engage Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Florida	I know I'm probably being the wide-eyed idealist in this, such is the role I play upon the stage, but jumping right to the worst case scenario doesn't seem like the best alternative either.

2010-10-09, 23:51	Link #498
winkel Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009	That sounds like a pretty unusual model. Why go through the effort of putting it on air then? They only make profits on video sales right? Why not just put money into CMs and go straight to video? Though if you juxtapose it with merchandising, it might make sense. Advertising a new artist's single is probably more effective on TV than on video. Although if they wanted to tackle that, they could just resort to radio/music video channels like how music is advertised in the US. Most people in this day and age find their exposure to these things on the internet anyway, so other media is rather to simply cover all the bases. And karice67, I know what you said, but you were also countering my point as well. Therefore I was defending my own points, regardless if they aligned with yours.

2010-10-10, 00:05	Link #500
winkel Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009	But at the same time, there are also people who only watch shows once, and have no inclination to buy them ever again. I know that there are numerous shows I watched on CR/Hulu that I would never pay for actual DVDs/BDs for, simply because I only am interested in seeing them once, and I am sure I'm not alone. (To contrast, I also own so many anime DVDs, that I'm running out of storage space for). Forwarding it to video sales would push buying on potential interest and marketing push, and could actually lead to more sales. Kind of like the video game model. Or to even be crazy, go reverse: to video first, and then months later, air it on TV to get new viewers. I am quite aware of the history of late-night viewing, but the anime market today is hardly the anime market of yesteryear. As for related merchandise, they can still roll them out either before the first video hits stores, or simultaneously with each volume release. The videos and CMs and word of mouth will spread the buzz. Because I feel there is no real need for companies to pander to fans anymore. They seem to always find what they want, when they want, without needing to be shown or told what to do. It's the causal viewers who probably have the sales potential, and it seems more likely for such a viewer to see an interesting video at the store and pick it up than wait up until 2-3AM in the morning to watch a string of anime.