Epitaph: Speculations and Theories [Episode 1-4]

[rogerpepitone]

Originally Posted by Leafsnail

Fair enough, but they aren't meant to be solving the epitaph.

Spoiler for Ep3:

And if solving the epitaph is dependant on asking the servants about the interior of the chapel, how do Eva and Rosa solve it?

Kinzo has repeatedly said that servants are eligible to solve the epitaph.

[Leafsnail]

They are eligible, but they shouldn't be the only ones with a real chance to do it, right?

[Number1-Syaoran-Fan]

There is quite a similarity in the epitaph and the Bible's ten commandments.

Firstly, there are already strong connections made between Umineko and The Divine Comedy and Christianity in general. The seven stakes, Beatrice, etc.

With that in mind, the beginning seems to be all about finding God/the key. After that you have to live by his guidelines - the ten commandments vs. the ten twilights. If you do, you will reach the golden land/heaven.

It even states that you will be reunited with the dead in the golden land.

I just thought it was very similar. Of course, I haven't yet discovered how to find the exact location with this idea, but perhaps if it is a religious idea, the chapel would be a clear start.

[DgBarca]

Hum...did someone theorises the "sweetfish river" as a metaphor for time ? The "sweetfish" part is a hint. A sweetfish is born in a river, then goes to the ocean then come back. It's like a clock, and you could link it with "Kinzo" talking about clocks earlier, when it reach 23:59 does it reach 24:00 or 0 ? The life of a sweetfish is really similar to a day, it start from 0:00 to reach 24:00 in the same place as 0:00, then a new day start (a sweetfish is born).

Then, "the shore the two will tell you off", "the two" is in fact the II from a clock, in other word, if you use a clock as a compass, North-East.

Following the river downstream is related to the past...now it starts to look a bit more like a normal will. So the key shall be something related to Kinzo's past...the war, Beatrice, Genji, Odawara, Kuwadorian, the Great Kanto earthquake...

My theory is that Kinzo went in Rokkenjima during the war, where a battler took place, and he met Beatrice or Genji or both here at the same time. It is also here that he became the Kinzo we all know. Later, he built Kuwadorian on Rokkenjima, or even that Kuwadorian was here even before Kinzo wanted to live in the island, and even later the whole familiy moved here. Since the "birth" of that "Kinzo" was in Rokkenjima, he wanted to move here for dying, like the clock metaphor.

(Damn psy-chorus is like forcing you to think, even at 2:45AM)

[DgBarca]

I just re-read the chapiter where Eva solve the riddle.
She took an atlas (the same as Erika, I guess).
Figure out what is the sweetfish river, and says that a the sweetfish can't swim in the river because it's not a river, but can still swim in the ocean.
This make me think of "a river within the ocean"...And the Ring of Fire seems to be fitting in that case with the Izu Ogasawara Trench. (And even it could fit with the volcano theory).
Moreover, she says that the entrance is like a gaping wide mouth...sound like a crater.

Trench, Gouge ?

[neeTHREE]

Please pardon me if this is a stupid question, I didn't bother reading all 25 pages worth of posts although I did read quite a few.

It seems like a lot of people are basing their theories on the Qilian Station in Taiwan. However, a quick search on wikipedia shows me that the station was opened in 1997 - that's eleven years after the original story of the novel, who knows how many more after Kinzo wrote the epitaph.

So, isn't it quite impossible to believe that is the place?

My humble question.

[Jan-Poo]

A while ago I researched the issue and I posted my findings here:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...ui#post2939236

Basically, it's true that the Qilian station didn't exist in 1986 and that the current one was opened only recently, but that's because it was shut down, not because it never existed before.

At the time Kinzo was living in his hometown, the Qilian station existed.

[neeTHREE]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

A while ago I researched the issue and I posted my findings here:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...ui#post2939236

Basically, it's true that the Qilian station didn't exist in 1986 and that the current one was opened only recently, but that's because it was shut down, not because it never existed before.

At the time Kinzo was living in his hometown, the Qilian station existed.

Ah, my mistake then, must've missed it. Cheers.

[serverwolf]

i didn't read all the post here (yet)
however if a map is needed
here pictures of japan's map (i also added a rivers map)

Spoiler for non river map:

Spoiler for river map:

also i have to say that japan and golden land are conected
"zipangu" as marko polo call it (i think)
(google it if you want)

edit: oh! i forgot! (i dont know if it was already said but)
"At the third twilight, the surviving shall praise my honorable name on high."
my honorable name is kinzo so i serched about it a litile and found this:
金蔵 = kinzo = Treasure house. (google translate)

[UsagiTenpura]

This is going to be very broken but it's something I thought about.
里 I believe is used for Ougon no Sato. Rosa in arc 5 mentions how because it can also be pronounced "Kyo" it made her think about Kyoto. However Kyo as in Kyoto is another kanji 京.

Now one possible thing the "river" could refer to, I believe is the Tokaido road. If you follow it "downstream" you will find a "village" (里) but what if this is the hint Rosa meant? That we need to look for a 京 instead of a 里? Because at the end of the Tokaido is the Osaka Kaido, aslo called Kyokaido (using 京).

This is probably all wrong but I thought I might as well share that idea nontheless.

[ErenselTheJester]

Just a question, but does Kuwadorian having any connection with the word "Quadrillion?"

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by ErenselTheJester

Just a question, but does Kuwadorian having any connection with the word "Quadrillion?"

Well yes, because that would be one way to pronounce it with engrish word play.

And according to Quilan theory. The mansion names: Toraian = trillion, Kuwadorian = quadrillion.

[rogerpepitone]

On the other hand, wouldn't Krauss have picked the name Toraian? He built the guest house, after all.

[ErenselTheJester]

Originally Posted by Judoh

Well yes, because that would be one way to pronounce it with engrish word play.

And according to Quilan theory. The mansion names: Toraian = trillion, Kuwadorian = quadrillion.

That's exactly what I was going for. Thanks!

[Solachinx]

Could the "honorable name" be something that he went by in the Korean War (or was it WWII? It's been so long since I read the exposition...)?

[Judoh]

As far as I know, the war Kinzo served in is never specifically stated in the exposition so this can lead to some very different timelines. ....Unless there's something in episode 7 about it, but I haven't read that.

[Dlanor A. Knox]

Originally Posted by UsagiTenpura

From what I remember (could really be wrong on this) the chapel isn't of any specific faith. It's almost like Kinzo did it for fashion and style rather then real belief.

Well, is there a Maria statue orso in it?

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Dlanor A. Knox

Well, is there a Maria statue orso in it?

Neither statues nor icons nor even crosses are actually mentioned if my memory serves me right. I see one big cross in the backgrounds by the altar and that's it. No sign of statues or icons in the background either. What I can tell you for sure is that there is no way the chapel is Orthodox in any denomination of such. Not enough gold.

In theory, it should be Catholic, as traditionally, wedding rites for modern secular Japanese are most frequently performed by a Catholic priest, and funeral rites by Buddhists, even though when asked everyone will say they have no religion, and then go to a Shinto shrine on New Year anyway.

However, I am not sure it was like that when the chapel was built, which has to have been between 1950 and 1955, so... it remains uncertain.

[Judoh]

According to the text:

The chapel requires some explanation.
It wasn't in the mansion, but in a grove behind the mansion, which could be reached after a short walk.

It had been built at the same time that the mansion had been constructed on Rokkenjima, so while its outside walls had been repaired many times, making it look new from the outside, it was a very old building.

Natsuhi says she believes the mansion was constructed in 1952, so the chapel should have been finished around the same year. Furthermore the walls have been repaired several times so it's clearly a special place to Kinzo.

[chounokoe]

Originally Posted by Judoh

As far as I know, the war Kinzo served in is never specifically stated in the exposition so this can lead to some very different timelines. ....Unless there's something in episode 7 about it, but I haven't read that.

According to the Japanese constitution, Article 9, after WWII, rearmament is forbidden. Therefore it is highly improbable that Kinzo served in any war after WWII, unless he wasn't a Japanese citizen at that time.
Yes it is stated in Episode 7 that it was WWII, but there could have never been any serious doubt about that point.