Canvas 2 ~Niji-iro no Sketch~

[Sinestra]

Just finished the subs and as expected the writers dont have a good explanation for why things ended up like they did. Ok so Hiroki stopped being a dickless wonder and made a choice. but the ending was way to rushed its like they just slapped it together, i dont mind that Elis won i liked her as a charcter but there is just not enough story to support the ending, Nor does anyone give a flying F**k about Kiri's feelings. Also, when Hiroki is on the train he is yelling something to Kiri they never touched what he was trying to say, that one piece of dialog could have a made a diffrence. And the ending with Elis and Hiroki under the covers we all know what that was about but it could have been left out i dont see a reason for it. However i was really sadden with the plane scene im getting the feeling that Fujinami didnt make it, but another one they left out. Over all i liked the show just really disappointed with the rushed ending.

Oh yeah and what is Hiroki going to give up on his teaching job he worked so hard for and move to France with Elis?

[thundrakkon]

How many people in your life do you truly will be willing to do anything for that person? How many will truly do it for you? If you've found someone that actually could push you over a hurdle that no one else would have been able to do, I'd say that person is someone you don't want to be without, since she has something that no one else has: an ability to make you want to be a better person.

I think that is the take they are trying to say here.

Just curious... Did Hiroki actually state that he sees Elis as his little sister or as someone he truly cares for and takes care of? There are plenty of shows out there where relationships develop from people who somehow end up living together. They really do need to develop Hiroki more, as far as what he is thinking and feeling.

@Sinestra, I think Fujinami made it. She opened her eyes in the ending credits. Also, I think he did give up his teaching job and is currently pursuing his artistic aspirations again, as it is hinted with the letter to the superintendent.

[Spinner187]

I know that Elis and Hirko weren't blood related, but can some1 remind me how they were related? I thought they were cousin or something similar. If that's the case isn't that a little werid. A matter of fact, isn't that incest? Kind of reminds me of Koi Kaze<shivers>.

[cheesie]

That just... blew me away. Never mind what I spewed before, but I wasn't expecting it happening just like that, I wasn't expecting the ENDING CREDITS, where it feels like they skipped a timeline or something.

After watching this, I'm happy that Elis got her happy ending, but it left me feeling a little odd - it felt like the episode tried to cramp as many events as it could, events that should be significant and explored earlier on. :x I kept thinking, Hiroki kept to himself too much, I think that's the main problem. I believe this kind of episode should've spread out to two more episodes, to wrap everything up nicely.

I think I need a little more time for it to sink in, because that was certainly shocking.

[rooboy]

Originally Posted by npal

Well, I think Elis was just being heartbroken and wanted to say what she wanted. I don't think she was really hoping for much. I was still touched though, that confession isn't my problem.

I understand what your problem is, and I said a couple of days ago that if you didn't like the ending of Shuffle, you weren't going to like the ending to this either. Like all shows of it's type, it's deeply flawed to begin with. It exists primarily to please a particular demographic (and it's not us, it's the people who are playing the game and buying the merchandise). EDIT: Though I guess that makes me at least partially it's demographic, since I actually own sets of Mahoroba, Shuffle and Please Twins gashapons.
Well I know she wasn't expecting much, it's a last resort kind of thing. If you're desparate enough to play the "plea-for-attention" card, obviously things aren't going that well. I should say that I wasn't trying to say she really planned it out though (obviously Hiroki called her, not the other way around). It's sort of like when the one girl in Honey and Clover tries to make the other guy jealous, she didn't really start off with that as part of her plan, but she definitely seized on the opportunity when it presented itself.
I should also say that I don't mean to say that Elis "stole" Hiroki either (i.e. I don't think she actually manipulated him, though it wasn't for lack of trying). My interpretation is more along the lines of: Something happens and Hiroki realizes that it's been Elis he's been in love with all along. The something that happens is obviously the painting he gets, but the "why" of it is still escaping me (and, obviously, most of the rest of you). That doesn't change the motivation of Elis saying what she did.

Originally Posted by npal

Well, the scene was a bit unsettling, mainly because the empty shirt just didn't seem right to me, although that still isn't my main problem

I wasn't really trying to indicate it as a "problem", it just struck me as creepy.
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[Sarcasm]In some ways I think maybe this is the perfect harem anime. I know, it's a love triangle. The problem is that it's a love triangle that is burdened with all the typical problems of an ero-game harem conversion, with less leads. And pretty much every harem anime generally only focuses on two of the girls anyway (well, except Futakoi, which focuses on two pairs).
No matter what happens at the end of any series like this, some people always end up complaining. This time they just wrote it so you can write your own explanation. The only thing that could be better is if they cloned Hiroki at the end and gave a copy to Hagino, Kiri, and Elis. Then everyone could have thought up their own explanation for each of the three endings.[/sarcasm]
However, since I was hardly a huge fan of the show before we got to the end, I'm not about to hop up and rewatch the whole thing over again to see if I can figure out the one clue that puts it all together.
But, y'know, Hagino's cute.

Originally Posted by Vexx

The KirixHiroki issues were shadowy clues in ep22 --- and frankly I would have assumed a Hiroki-chooses-to-move-on-alone ending based on the vibes in ep22/23.

Just thought I'd point out that it's episode 23 where Hiroki says he wants to spend Christmas Eve with Kiri in a hotel. And he seems to adequately explain all of her concerns up until that point (which, if you don't know how it ended already, seems like a perfectly reasonable explanation). And in 24 he's buying her a present, all seems business as normal, until he opens the painting.

Originally Posted by Blue_Mercy

That's true but there is a difference between overcoming a hurdle together and becoming a couple with a person you have always thought of as your sister.

Actually, I always read their relationship more as a parent-child thing. Well, at least on Hiroki's side. The siblings-living-without-parents thing is an overused anime trope. In almost all of these relationships, one is usually the acting "parent" and the other is the "child". They almost never act like real siblings (Da Capo would be an exception). It usually has nothing to do with age, in School Rumble, Yakumo (the younger Tsukamoto sister) is the "parent" while Tenma (the older sister) is the "child".
Though I guess now that I think about it, after the 24th episode that's obviously not the way he felt about her (at least I hope that's not the way he felt about her). To be honest, I found this aspect to be far more disturbing than their actual biological cousin relationship.

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Oh yeah and what is Hiroki going to give up on his teaching job he worked so hard for and move to France with Elis?

Not that this makes a hill-of-beans difference to the rest of it, but I'm pretty sure he's going back to being an artist. It's been pretty obvious that he's been faking it as a teacher anyway (how many coffee breaks does one teacher get, and does he ever actually teach anything?), so the students are honestly probably better off.

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

Just curious... Did Hiroki actually state that he sees Elis as his little sister or as someone he truly cares for and takes care of? There are plenty of shows out there where relationships develop from people who somehow end up living together. They really do need to develop Hiroki more, as far as what he is thinking and feeling.

Yeah, I was curious about something similar (I was actually looking to see if Hiroki actually rejected her the first time or if he just played it off). He says it at least once (possibly more) in episode 10 (which picks up at the end of episode 9, Elis' confession). At first he tries to play it off as an April Fool's joke, then he tells her something along the lines of "I've known you since you were little" "You're a very important little sister, but anything else is..". Someone who has a subbed copy could probably give you a more accurate description (I only have the raws of a couple of episodes, and I'm waiting to finish getting the Lunar batch of all the subbed episodes).

[rale]

However i was really sadden with the plane scene im getting the feeling that Fujinami didnt make it, but another one they left out.

The last shot before the Paris Gate during the credits is of her laying in a bed and opening her eyes. I think it's safe to say that shes ok.

Oh yeah and what is Hiroki going to give up on his teaching job he worked so hard for and move to France with Elis?

Well, thats the thing, Hiroki is a painter, not a teacher. Teaching was something to do when he couldn't paint.


Now as for the ending overall. I felt it was ok, but a little more time to fill in the gaps between the scene at the airport and the epilogue during/after the credits would have probably helped.

As for why Kiri was destined to lose out... well, to Hiroki, Kiri was part of what he was trying to build to replace his lost painting. While most of the characters were pushing him to paint again, she was supporting his teaching career. Would people really have been happier with an ending where the main character never solves the problem thats been plaguing him from the start of the series? Elis got Hiroki to paint again, Kiri couldn't, and thats what really matters.

It's unfortunate that we don't get to see any of the progression afterwards and instead just get jumped a few months ahead to see the end result, but the key point was really just him being able to see her differently. It's clear he cares for her quite a bit, but all along he had seen her as a little sister-type that he needed to protect (the omelet rice with white sauce was a good example), but getting past her block finally forced him to see her in a different light.

Maybe I'm just being a bit too forgiving of the weaknesses in the way the ending was carried out. Stretching it out over 1 more episode with some of the gaps filled in could have eliminated a lot of the complaints I think. Still, I didn't think it was bad. I didn't really have a prefered "winner" going into it either, so that probably helps too (my favorites were never in the running).

[thundrakkon]

Thanks for pointing out the episode, rooboy666. In episode 10, he did say, "To me, you are very important sister." [Lunar subs quote]

In retrospect, the feeling I got when watching that scene again was he was trying to deny it and playing it off, saying it's an April's Fool joke. You could look at it this way: if you and a girl have been close friends for a very long time, and suddenly, you confess to her, the usual reaction is first shock, and then probably a reply along the lines of how she sees you as her brother, and vice versa. Then after a while, when she thinks about it and identifies her true feelings, her response might change.

You can't always take anything anyone says at face value anymore.

[Furudanuki]

After days of dodging several threads in the forum to avoid spoilers, I had hoped for better things. But in the end this series shot for an OMG! and instead landed far closer to WTF? To use the journey analogy someone mentioned in an earlier post: I enjoyed the trip for the most part, and I don't have a problem with the destination, but I must have missed a transfer a few stations back because I'm not sure how the hell I would up here.

I had hoped that Hiroki would end up with Kiri, but that had a lot more to do with my desire for a resolution where the two adults actually wound up togther than any special attachment to Kiri's character or dislike of Elis'. I would have been just as content to see a Hiroki x Saya pairing if the storyline supported that resolution. I'll just echo what several people have already said - an Elis ending is fine, but I really do wish more time had been taken to show the reasoning that Hiroki went through to finally arrive at that conclusion. It would have been much more satisfying - and more fair to Elis as a character - to know what it was about her that made her the one for Hiroki.

But when all is said, I am still going to walk away from Canvas 2 with a good overall impression of this anime. Because for me, the whole Kiri vs. Elis thing was never the main appeal of the series in the first place. I derived a lot more pleasure watching how the romantic triangle (plus Yanagi-scum) interacted with and affected the lives of the people around them, and vice-versa. For me, Hagino Kana was the primary character that made the series enjoyable, with Fujinami Tomoko running a strong second. The relaxed and playful relationship between Hagino and Hiroki was a definite high point of the series, and I have to give the writers credit for not succumbing to the harem temptation to turn that relationship into something serious. So the series as a whole is far from a disappointment, but I can't help but be a little sad that the finale failed to be the high point that it could and should have been.

[Spinner187]

But But But, weren't they really cousins?
Please correct me if I am incorrect, but isn't that, umm, wrong?

[rooboy]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

Thanks for pointing out the episode, rooboy666. In episode 10, he did say, "To me, you are very important sister." [Lunar subs quote]

In retrospect, the feeling I got when watching that scene again was he was trying to deny it and playing it off, saying it's an April's Fool joke. You could look at it this way: if you and a girl have been close friends for a very long time, and suddenly, you confess to her, the usual reaction is first shock, and then probably a reply along the lines of how she sees you as her brother, and vice versa. Then after a while, when she thinks about it and identifies her true feelings, her response might change.

You can't always take anything anyone says at face value anymore.

That's true. However, just as valid an interpretation would be:

If your daughter (or little sister or girl you see as a friend) came up to you and said she was in love with you. Your first (natural) reaction would be shock (saying nothing, probably blushing in embarassment), and then you would try to play it off because there's no good way to answer it without damaging an important, non-romantic relationship ("Is it April fool's?"). Then you would finally be blunt when she's obviously not getting the hint that it's not going to work out (I'm sorry, I only see you as a little sister. I'm pretty sure he uses the word imouto there, so it's little sister. Not that it's a big thing one way or the other.).

While I see your interpretation as accurate now (otherwise, it's very creepy). When it was actually happening, I believe most people interpreted it the way I just did. I said before (when I watched the last raw) that this is probably, for me, the biggest strength and the biggest weakness of the whole series. It is clearly intended on the first pass to seem like he has no real interest in Elis other than pride over a kind of wayward little sister or daughter; however, the ending is just as clearly intended to make us reevaluate a lot of the earlier episodes (I pretty much refuse to believe that it is just so poorly written that the ending was dartboarded).
Kudos to the person who goes back through to put together all the little hints (no, metatextual evidence is not a plot hint neither are gut instincts), but it's not going to be me. I considered the series an average example of it's genre to begin with, the ending didn't make it worse, but it didn't really improve it either. It came into the last episode as a C, and it left the last episode as a C. There are far too many series starting this season that I am exceptionally interested in to go back and rewatch a series that I didn't find particularly inspiring to begin with. Would I do it for Lamune, yes. Pani Poni Dash, yes. Magikano, possibly. Shakugan no Shana, definitely. Canvas 2, no. Especially considering that not only is this going to be a big season in Japanese anime, but the domestic side is starting to heat up with releases of series I like as well. Which means that I finally have a chance to share some of my favorite series from last year with the wife (Tsukuyomi, Bleach and Ichigo Mashimaro in particular are series she'll probably like). And my son is already foaming at the mouth to see a dubbed version of Bleach, and will probably also like Ichigo Mashimaro.
On the other hand, I'm saving the episodes to DVD (as soon as I get the last ones). I'm older (not as older as Vexx, but I'm definitely getting there ), so I'm well aware that tastes change with age. In ten years it could be my favorite example of anime. I doubt it, but you never know.

[Furudanuki]

Originally Posted by Spinner187

But But But, weren't they really cousins?
Please correct me if I am incorrect, but isn't that, umm, wrong?

Yes, Hiroki and Elis are first cousins. In episode 10 they visit their mutual grandmother. And marriage between first cousins, though probably not extremely common, is a legal and accepted fact of life for the majority of the world's population. Whether it is "wrong" or not is a personal matter for you: if you think it is wrong to marry your first cousin, then you should not do so.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by Spinner187

But But But, weren't they really cousins?
Please correct me if I am incorrect, but isn't that, umm, wrong?

Depends on first, second cousins, what state, what country you live in, etc etc. Many variables on this one, and it's not as bad as say brother and sister, or father and daughter/mother and son.

[Kaoru Chujo]

I found a good site about cousin marriage.

It says that 26 states permit cousin marriage, as do all countries in Europe. In the US, about one in a thousand couples are first cousins. In Japan it's four in a thousand. In Leviticus, in the Bible, where it lays out the rules for who you can marry, it does not prohibit cousin marriage. Darwin and Einstein married their cousins. There is a higher proportion of birth defects -- 5% instead of 2.5% -- but a lower rate of miscarriage. One estimate says that world-wide, 20% of couples are first cousins.

[Morgri]

Pssh, shed's new light on that! I don't feel as bad anymore about... in fact, it might have changed my whole opinion! Great link!

[Vexx]

Good research... I am really getting a bit tired of re-iterating this. I'm *really* unclear why this uninformed viewpoint exists and where it comes from. Its so rare in the US anymore for cousins to even see each other to worry about it.

I do remember as a kid that sometimes "hillbillies" (Appalachian) were made fun of in many ways including lame comments about "kissing cousins".... but so much other "myth" has been forgotten over the years it seems odd for this one to persist.

[navi432001]

The ending does feel a bit contemptuous towards Kiri and totaly deviating from previous parts of the series but I still have to say it is truely a cute ending.

[pkang0327]

Does anyone know what Fujinami meant when she said "Goodbye Oniichan fromteh Hospital"

From what I can remember, Hiroki was not from the hospital so I don't think she was referring to him.

[npal]

Well, I guess I have to fill the missing things on my own, then.

Hiroki... Tsk am I the only one who'd propose to Kiri if I took all the trouble to buy her a present and ask her to spend Christmas Eve together and reassure her that everything is ok? I mean... If I was so torn up between Kiri and Elis, I wouldn't probably suggest that. I know a few people can say something and then change their minds, but whatever. I still think that, the way things were presented, it would be better with a Kiri ending (plotwise - much more easier to spot clues). Well, as a preference, I really wanted Elis happy, but then, I'm feeling sorry for Kiri... Oh well... It was a nice series overall, I wish they cared to explain the ending a bit more EXPLICITLY

[Avijja]

Haha, April Fools! I don't believe so many of you fell for that fake ending.

You see, some devious fanboy doctored the raw encodes that were later passed on to fansubbers. The finale you saw wasn't the real ending. This malicious fanboy copied the jacket-sniffing and bedroom scenes from episodes 4 and 17 of the incest drama "Koi Kaze" from two years ago, which was drawn in a similar style. If you freeze-frame these scenes, you can tell that the prankster just pasted the "Canvas 2" characters' heads over the "Koi Kaze" footage because the skintones don't match up. You'll also notice that the audio for the faux finale is actually composed of clips from earlier in the series. Very clever.

So how did the story really end? I'll save you the trouble of downloading the episode again, so I'll summarize. Having rejected Kiri on Christmas Eve, said goodbye to Elis at the airport, and finally made a painting for the first time in years, Hiroki regains his confidence. On his way back from the airport, he calls up Yanagi and confesses his undying passion to him. Hiroki admits that he rejected Kiri in high school because he was crazy for young Yanagi, despite being terribly disappointed that Yanagi only saw him as a childhood friend. The two meet up in the hotel we saw earlier and as they shirtlessly gaze into each other's eyes, everything goes into romantic soft focus with pastel tones and those shiny bubbles that love scenes always have. Hiroki weeps openly as he finally admits his bitter feelings of rejection when Yanagi not only stole his painting's composition but the jealousy he felt because he wanted Yanagi to paint him rather than Kiri. Yanagi kisses Hiroki passionately and a shower of rose petals obscures their torrid love scene. Roll credits.

Although I was a bit surprised by this Yanagi ending, it sure makes more sense than the prank Elis ending. I mean Elis is nice and all, but seriously just think about it. How could he spend so much time with her without ever giving us any hint that his inner fires burned for her? Did you ever see Hiroki show any interest in the wide range of beautiful, willing women that were desperate for his love and constantly dragged him into bed, onto dates and such? How could any heterosexual man cope with all these advances without so much as flinching? Surely one of those gals must have had a kink to her that would have "pushed him over the edge", e.g. girls with nasal voices and a snaggletooth, sweaty gym shorts, biker leathers, or the creepy vulnerable-little-sister thing? Nope, Hiroki just wasn't interested in girls. If you look back, you'll notice that Hiroki only becomes deeply emotional when Yanagi is involved, acting evasive and freaked out as if unable to cope with his overwhelming feelings. When Hiroki lost Yanagi in high school, this was the most traumatic event in his life and he went into a deep, dark depression. And when Yanagi suddenly returned, how could he face him after all these years and those feelings of deep-set rejection? Even when the two meet briefly, Hiroki acted awkward and stilted, as if forcefully restraining his expression of anguish and passion. But with his confidence back and Hagino's encouragement to acknowledge his "nervous feelings", Hiroki finally steps forward and embraces his future.

It's all so beautiful that it makes me cry.

[Vexx]

The sad part is thats actually more clearly written...