Vastro Lorde [MANGA]

[Lelite]

Originally Posted by lequory

where was it said that nel waas an adjuchas. I need clarification there because i dont remember where it was said.

Nel is an old Espada. She got easily beat by current number 5, who, by the general consensus of this thread, is most likely an adjunchas.

Also, because she's old, she even more likely to be an adjunchas, because Aizen only recently aquired the hougyoku, so he'd obviously want to try it out first with adjunchas first.

If Grimm ain't a VL, Nel defintely isn't. Too weak.

Also, if we start completely speculating and going by how humanoid releases look.... Having the body of a goat isn't too humanoid IMO. Less humanoid than Grimmjow, that's for sure. But that's not really a factor.

OH YEAH. I remembered something. About how 'humanoid' releases look....

# 9 Release - a gross pile of hollow bodies fused with one another.
# 8 Release - weird wing-like protrusions, and... does he even have legs?
# 7 Release - PUMPKIN PIE is all I'm going to say.
# 6 Release - Almost human, save for cat paws instead of feet, long claws, and long ears (and a tail...)

... so. # 8 is more humanoid than # 7 (and I think # 8 is more powerful than # 7 in terms of abilities too), but I'm guessing these ranks are combat-oriented, and Szayel isn't that great at fighting, as he himself said. Therefore, # 8 > #7 in terms of how high they were on the Menos food-chain prior to becoming arrancar. Maybe how humanoid they were does have something to do with whether they're VL or not? Because I think it's 'resurrected' form, so wouldn't it make logical sense that what arrancars become when they release is what they were as a hollow sans mask?

[ashesatdusk]

Skimming through three pages of arguments. It seems more like this is a result of Kubo Tite doesn't seem to plan out his stories... if you really think about this arc... what happened to Urolquia, wasn't his time out supposed to be a couple of hours , Ichigo's friends now can also sense spirits, Ichigo's dad is a shinigami, Zaraki shows up from Ichigo's butt, Who really are viazard's? Their aims and motivations. A lot of open cans of worms. It doesn't surprise me at all he did make Vastrolorde seem monstrous. and the first few times Espada show up in the real world, Captain class shinigami have trouble with them. (heck they hardly lay scratches on them). We get to Hueco Mundo, and Rukia takes out the 9th strongest (just barely). And the appearance of the SS Captains, it all of sudden seems like Captain Class Shinigami are more even with Arrancar's. So I wouldn't be surprised if Grimmjaw was a Vastrolorde, at all. As lame as it seems.

[lequory]

I think that the naturally occuring Arrancars are the power level that SS is going by. If we go back to when the Aizen made ones started appearing everyone was amazed at the strength level of these new breeds of Arrancars. The "Round Ball Of Mystical Glory" seems to increase their powers beyond what anyone could have expected. I still dont think that anyone is a VL yet as i pointed out before when Grimmjaw was brought back by Tousen afterwards the convo Aizen had with Gin is proof enough to me that he's still searching. ONe thing that bothers me is the "Anime Exclusive" we just went through had Ashido saying there were VL's at Los Noches????? Puzzling?????

[Lelite]

Originally Posted by lequory

I think that the naturally occuring Arrancars are the power level that SS is going by. If we go back to when the Aizen made ones started appearing everyone was amazed at the strength level of these new breeds of Arrancars. The "Round Ball Of Mystical Glory" seems to increase their powers beyond what anyone could have expected. I still dont think that anyone is a VL yet as i pointed out before when Grimmjaw was brought back by Tousen afterwards the convo Aizen had with Gin is proof enough to me that he's still searching. ONe thing that bothers me is the "Anime Exclusive" we just went through had Ashido saying there were VL's at Los Noches????? Puzzling?????

Well, either the anime script team had a whoopsie or Ashido was simply confused.

I mean, we can kind of guess that Ashido never comes out of the forest of Menos - so the only information he hears about Las Noches comes from, presumably, the hollows. And you know how the weak and the ignorant almost never have the correct or the full information? So, Ashido hears from these Hollows that there are "hollows" that are insanely strong and look a lot like human beings over at Las Noches and comes to the most logical conclusion someone in his situation would come to: the only humanoid and insanely strong hollows he knows of are VL's, therefore, VL's are at Las Noches.

I mean, it seems like SS only started figuring out Arrancar a little while ago, while Ashido's been stuck in that forest for 300 years. And it also seemed like he wasn't of a very high rank when he jumped into Hueco Mundo - so what would he know? I doubt they've been teaching about Arrancar in the shinigami academy when most of their graduates have a hard time with regular hollows.

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by ashesatdusk

Skimming through three pages of arguments. It seems more like this is a result of Kubo Tite doesn't seem to plan out his stories... if you really think about this arc... what happened to Urolquia, wasn't his time out supposed to be a couple of hours,

It's been half an hour at most since the Grimjaw fight started

Ichigo's friends now can also sense spirits,

Newsflash, his friends have been seeing them for a long time. Tatsuki has been seeing them since Orihime's brother atacked her and the guys shortly after that starting around the start of the SS arc.

Ichigo's dad is a shinigami, Zaraki shows up from Ichigo's butt, Who really are viazard's? Their aims and motivations. A lot of open cans of worms.

Your complaining that he doesn't planthings out for the long haul and that he doesn't follow up with every plot he introduces right then and there. It's imposable to do both and KT loves to foreshadow. it's just he is good at being subtel and twisting expections. Isshin and the elder Ishida's relationship was hinted at as far back as when chad was hurt by a hollow. Isshin, who seems to call Ichigo by name every other sentace, manages not to adress Kon in Ichigo's body by that same name, ever. Arrancar were introduced into the series at the end of the GF arc with the introduction of D-roy, Iceringer and a maskless GF. Resently when #103 was beat we saw a flash back that showed #5,#8 and #9

It doesn't surprise me at all he did make Vastrolorde seem monstrous. and the first few times Espada show up in the real world, Captain class shinigami have trouble with them. (heck they hardly lay scratches on them). We get to Hueco Mundo, and Rukia takes out the 9th strongest (just barely). And the appearance of the SS Captains, it all of sudden seems like Captain Class Shinigami are more even with Arrancar's. So I wouldn't be surprised if Grimmjaw was a Vastrolorde, at all. As lame as it seems.

[ashesatdusk]

the guys shortly after that starting around the start of the SS arc.

Which given the time frame was about last week if they've only been in hueco mundo an half an hour. Remember this is a manga thread so bounto never happened

Your complaining that he doesn't planthings out for the long haul and that he doesn't follow up with every plot he introduces right then and there. It's imposable to do both and KT loves to foreshadow. it's just he is good at being subtel and twisting expections. Isshin and the elder Ishida's relationship was hinted at as far back as when chad was hurt by a hollow. Isshin, who seems to call Ichigo by name every other sentace, manages not to adress Kon in Ichigo's body by that same name, ever. Arrancar were introduced into the series at the end of the GF arc with the introduction of D-roy, Iceringer and a maskless GF. Resently when #103 was beat we saw a flash back that showed #5,#8 and #9

I used to think so too, if he manges to make it all come together in the end some how then i'll have not complain. But at the moment it seems more like he keeps digging himself in a corner, and he then digs his way out, by just changing the setting.

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by ashesatdusk

Which given the time frame was about last week if they've only been in hueco mundo an half an hour. Remember this is a manga thread so bounto never happened .

It's been about 2 months. The group stayed in SS for 2 weeks but had gone back in time 1 week. Rukia came back to the real world a week afterward. Ichigo did spend a full month training with the vizzard. The whole series has only taken 5 months.

I used to think so too, if he manges to make it all come together in the end some how then i'll have not complain. But at the moment it seems more like he keeps digging himself in a corner, and he then digs his way out, by just changing the setting.

[ashesatdusk]

It's been about 2 months. The group stayed in SS for 2 weeks but had gone back in time 1 week. Rukia came back to the real world a week afterward. Ichigo did spend a full month training with the vizzard. The whole series has only taken 5 months.

O_O I mean i guess thats the way the cookie crumbles when a story is released at 20 pictures a week. But man it feels like longer.... I think I got my hands on the lunar fan subs in 05...

[MihawkXGP]

Originally Posted by Lelite

Nel is an old Espada. She got easily beat by current number 5, who, by the general consensus of this thread, is most likely an adjunchas.

Also, because she's old, she even more likely to be an adjunchas, because Aizen only recently aquired the hougyoku, so he'd obviously want to try it out first with adjunchas first.

If Grimm ain't a VL, Nel defintely isn't. Too weak.

Also, if we start completely speculating and going by how humanoid releases look.... Having the body of a goat isn't too humanoid IMO. Less humanoid than Grimmjow, that's for sure. But that's not really a factor.

OH YEAH. I remembered something. About how 'humanoid' releases look....

# 9 Release - a gross pile of hollow bodies fused with one another.
# 8 Release - weird wing-like protrusions, and... does he even have legs?
# 7 Release - PUMPKIN PIE is all I'm going to say.
# 6 Release - Almost human, save for cat paws instead of feet, long claws, and long ears (and a tail...)

... so. # 8 is more humanoid than # 7 (and I think # 8 is more powerful than # 7 in terms of abilities too), but I'm guessing these ranks are combat-oriented, and Szayel isn't that great at fighting, as he himself said. Therefore, # 8 > #7 in terms of how high they were on the Menos food-chain prior to becoming arrancar. Maybe how humanoid they were does have something to do with whether they're VL or not? Because I think it's 'resurrected' form, so wouldn't it make logical sense that what arrancars become when they release is what they were as a hollow sans mask?

Since when did Nell get beat by Nnoitora? She seemed to be doing fine, up to the point when she released and then...welll...reverted back to her child form. It can't really be said which is the stronger, until a fight to the death occurs between them, in their released forms.

[Lelite]

Originally Posted by MihawkXGP

Since when did Nell get beat by Nnoitora? She seemed to be doing fine, up to the point when she released and then...welll...reverted back to her child form. It can't really be said which is the stronger, until a fight to the death occurs between them, in their released forms.

Wait, what? I was pretty sure there was some fighting between Nel and Nnoitora, and methinks Nel was kind of having a hard time.

Anyways, point of the matter is: Current #5 > Old #3, or, at least, Current # 5 = Old Number 3.

But, I'm pretty sure Neliel wasn't doing so well against Nnoitora... Considering the fact that she had to release in order to do some conceivable damage.

(That wasn't the way I wanted it to happen (I wanted Neliel to kick that stork of a male supremacist's ass), but it did...)

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by Lelite

Wait, what? I was pretty sure there was some fighting between Nel and Nnoitora, and methinks Nel was kind of having a hard time.

Anyways, point of the matter is: Current #5 > Old #3, or, at least, Current # 5 = Old Number 3.

But, I'm pretty sure Neliel wasn't doing so well against Nnoitora... Considering the fact that she had to release in order to do some conceivable damage.

(That wasn't the way I wanted it to happen (I wanted Neliel to kick that stork of a male supremacist's ass), but it did...)

They were fighting to a stand still before she released and she had more or less won when she reverted back to child form.

[noob saibot]

ok i just re-watched the episode when ichigo was trying to keep his hollow side under control. has anyone else notice that when ichgo's hollow transformation is somewhat of a vasto lorde? i mean look at the part when ichigo's charging up his cero and was about to fire at that vaizard Love. usually hollows are huge in size and abnormal yet when ichigo's hollow transformation is somewhat human size and almost humanoid. maybe perhaps ichigo's hollow side evolved into a vasto lorde which explains his constant high reiatsu????? i just think this is something interesting to point out.

[Wych]

Originally Posted by noob saibot

ok i just re-watched the episode when ichigo was trying to keep his hollow side under control. has anyone else notice that when ichgo's hollow transformation is somewhat of a vasto lorde? i mean look at the part when ichigo's charging up his cero and was about to fire at that vaizard Love. usually hollows are huge in size and abnormal yet when ichigo's hollow transformation is somewhat human size and almost humanoid. maybe perhaps ichigo's hollow side evolved into a vasto lorde which explains his constant high reiatsu????? i just think this is something interesting to point out.

That is because it was still part Ichigo. If you look not every hollow is big and monstrous even before arrancar. For his holo to be Vastro Lorde it would of needed to be Gillian cannibalised more Gillian then done the same as Adjudas (sp?) now I don't think that has happened.

On this whole Grimjow debate I personally hope and believe that he was not a Vastro lorde because they are the "top dog hollows" and if that is the best Hueco Mundo can offer well that is very dissapointing.

Also when Halibel said Aizen only planned for her,Stark and Ulq to survive I believe they may be used for something like calling Vastro Lorde or sacrificed for something.

I do not think Aizen would let his Vastro Lorde die so easy if he had wanted them so badly unless he had something more powerful than vastro Lorde in store.

[noob saibot]

Originally Posted by Wych

That is because it was still part Ichigo. If you look not every hollow is big and monstrous even before arrancar. For his holo to be Vastro Lorde it would of needed to be Gillian cannibalised more Gillian then done the same as Adjudas (sp?) now I don't think that has happened.

On this whole Grimjow debate I personally hope and believe that he was not a Vastro lorde because they are the "top dog hollows" and if that is the best Hueco Mundo can offer well that is very dissapointing.

Also when Halibel said Aizen only planned for her,Stark and Ulq to survive I believe they may be used for something like calling Vastro Lorde or sacrificed for something.

I do not think Aizen would let his Vastro Lorde die so easy if he had wanted them so badly unless he had something more powerful than vastro Lorde in store.

well yea but like i was saying, what IF ichigo's hollow somehow evolved into a vasto lorde or something similar in a different way? we all know there has to be certain way for menos to evolve but it was never stated that there isn't any other way if you catch my drift? and if you re-watch the episode Love did mentioned "oh so he has already completely turn into a hollow." i am not saying i am providing strong logic and facts, this is just a slight possiblity and theory

as for Grimjow being vasto lorde, i don't think so. in fact, i don't think they're any vasto lorde class in even espada. remember the episode when Aizen and Ichimaru has a conversation after Grimjow's return? i believe Aizen said along the lines something like "when we gather the vasto lorde, we will complete the espada" if i am wrong, someone please correct me!

[Blood_Knight]

Originally Posted by noob saibot

well yea but like i was saying, what IF ichigo's hollow somehow evolved into a vasto lorde or something similar in a different way? we all know there has to be certain way for menos to evolve but it was never stated that there isn't any other way if you catch my drift? and if you re-watch the episode Love did mentioned "oh so he has already completely turn into a hollow." i am not saying i am providing strong logic and facts, this is just a slight possiblity and theory

as for Grimjow being vasto lorde, i don't think so. in fact, i don't think they're any vasto lorde class in even espada. remember the episode when Aizen and Ichimaru has a conversation after Grimjow's return? i believe Aizen said along the lines something like "when we gather the vasto lorde, we will complete the espada" if i am wrong, someone please correct me!

If menos kept on consuming each other and became Gillian> Adjudcas> VL, then why isnt HM flooded with them, also another thing to say is that Shinigami+Hollow doesnt equal unlimited power, it certainly boosts you up, or otherwise Aizen wouldnt need an army, It only increases your PERSONAL limits, for people who believe Grimm was/ is a VL, then that would mean that spoonhead would be aswell [and id hate that], note: If VL's a guarrenteed a humaniod form, then why the hell do they need the Orb, [unless they really like swords], and for final point- IF Las Noches has 0 Vl, then why did that filler shingami say there was, it was filler but not invisible, And when Aizen was talking about 'gathering', he was refering to filling all 10 spots of espada with Vasto lords, doent mean that there is 0!! [anyways just my opinion, not making an arguement]:

[Ban kai]

we will find out laterwho are vasto lorde and who arent. but i think that like around 7-10 are adjuchas. number 1-3 are defenitly vasto lorde

[Amirali]

Originally Posted by Ban kai

we will find out laterwho are vasto lorde and who arent. but i think that like around 7-10 are adjuchas. number 1-3 are defenitly vasto lorde

Number 9 was a gillian.

[Casshern]

Can someone clarify if it's vastro, vasto or vast? There's just alot of different spellings and i'd like to know the correct one. To me it seems that "Vast" would be the correct spelling, pronounced "Vasto" with Japanese phonetics.

[Blood_Knight]

Originally Posted by neuromancer

Can someone clarify if it's vastro, vasto or vast? There's just alot of different spellings and i'd like to know the correct one. To me it seems that "Vast" would be the correct spelling, pronounced "Vasto" with Japanese phonetics.

Vasto Lord, I think its actually a spanish term, but Japanese may have a different way of spelling it, and if it was called a *vast lord*, it would sound pretty gay for the [original] top dogs of HM

[baalthaczaar]

Originally Posted by ashesatdusk

I used to think so too, if he manges to make it all come together in the end some how then i'll have not complain. But at the moment it seems more like he keeps digging himself in a corner, and he then digs his way out, by just changing the setting.

well i guess bleach is a very good example or deus ex machina.