The most important anime of all time

[Shay Guy]

Take a look at this article series for a moment. It's one of my favorite features on the site, and it's essentially a list of what the writers deemed the fifty most important video games of all time, judged primarily by impact on other games and the industry as a whole, with articles on each entry. So my question is, what would you get if you replaced "video games" with "anime" and/or "manga?" And how much overlap between those two would there be?

Let's see. Astro Boy, Mahou Tsukai Sally, Harenchi Gakuen, Mazinger Z, Cutie Honey, Space Battleship Yamato, Urusei Yatsura, Mobile Suit Gundam, The Super Dimension Fortress Macross, Fist of the North Star, Dragon Ball, Sailor Moon, Neon Genesis Evangelion...some people I've asked have said "anything by Osamu Tezuka," but I don't want to go quite that far, mainly because 1UP's article didn't say "anything by Nintendo" or the like.

So what else would qualify, and why?

• Title
• Description of influence
• Other series influenced

[Nosauz]

I dunno, 1up is really suspect after they sacked the entire staff and considering that Jeff Green, Sean Molloy, Shawn Elliot, Shane Bettanhosen, Milky, Garnett lee, Ryan O'donnel, Hsu, had no input on the article, I find its merits pretty suspect, as to what is deeming of the top 50.

I pour a pint to all those now no longer with 1up, once a bastion of awesome gamingness now lies in ruins.

For me I'm gonna say Mason Ikkoku, best romance drama that really propelled the genre to new heights. Though it really only affected romance anime/manga, its too hard to say one important, because there have been so many influential works that have help shape anime/manga history much like novels, and television, there were pioneers, and then those that succeeded the dreams of those pioneers. It's really too hard to just list one, because even anime today will influence future anime as did the first animes to ever be broadcast brought life to the industry. Of course some have mroe impact than others but in the end, great anime all have immense impacts that can't be simply measured so that makes the question really hard to answer.

PS. the best thing about 1up before the buy out were the podcasts, and they pretty much sacked that, Rest in peace some of the best podcasts out there. Also my main gripe is that there were many games that also created the market for certain games, especially considering games like Grim Fandango where high quality gameplay and storytelling were the main focus.

[Vexx]

At first I though it was another recent article about the "top 50 games of all time" that has been pretty much ripped to shreds -- obviously compiled by people who think videogaming didn't exist before the year "2004" or whenever they first grabbed a controller/keyboard.

But it wasn't - at least these people had enough sense to start with Spacewar

I don't think one can list a single "most important" ... only anime that changed the landscape. Like Maison Ikkoku or perhaps something from the Key series, maybe ARIA, the very first mecha series (Gundam?) that grabbed attention, ...

It have to be a selected group of series that either changed the landscape for expectations or inspired a cartload of homage/imitations.

[Jan-Poo]

I can't just name a single anime.

Grendizer
- Although it wasn't exactly the first giant robot, it was the first with a pilot inside it
- Influence: every other series that focuses on giant robots fighting monsters and aliens, Evangelion included. Naming each one of them would take a whole page.

Ribbon no Kishi
- It is based on what is considered the first "shojo manga" ever made.
- Influence: Every shojo manga that came after that

Kidou Senshi Gundam
- A sort of evolution in the "super robot" series. Gundam brought it at new more realistic level. However it is important for many other anime in general.
- Influence: Every other Gundam series, Macross, Legend of Galactic Heroes.

Hokuto no Ken
- The most notable series about supernatural martial arts.
- Influece: Dragonball, Saint Seiya, Samurai Troopers, Get Bakers, Bleach, Naruto. Indirectly even anime like Sailor Moon.

Maho no Tenshi Creamy Mami
- While it's not the first "maho shojo", Creamy is the one that set the standard.
- Influence: "Pelsha", "Maho no Star magical Emi", "Hime-chan no Ribbon", "Card captor Sakura" and many others.

I'm sure there are others that deserve a particular mention but i'll stop here for now --;

[GreenLama]

The most important anime series of all time would have to be Dragon Ball Z. I am not saying this because I am a fan (I have only seen a handfull of episodes), but I am saying this because of the influence it had in the U.S market as well as Japan. It spawned a media blitz and a marchendising machine and had pulled in millions upon million of viewers on a weekly basis in the U.S and I am sure had millions of viewers in Japan. As far as importance storywise or creative wise, I am unsure, but as far as world wide presence, it has to be DBZ. Second nod would be to Pokemon, which could be considered number one to a certain extent.

Neither of the series I mentioned are anywhere near my favorites, so I am showing no bias toward any series.

[Nosauz]

Originally Posted by GreenLama

The most important anime series of all time would have to be Dragon Ball Z. I am not saying this because I am a fan (I have only seen a handfull of episodes), but I am saying this because of the influence it had in the U.S market as well as Japan. It spawned a media blitz and a marchendising machine and had pulled in millions upon million of viewers on a weekly basis in the U.S and I am sure had millions of viewers in Japan. As far as importance storywise or creative wise, I am unsure, but as far as world wide presence, it has to be DBZ. Second nod would be to Pokemon, which could be considered number one to a certain extent.

Neither of the series I mentioned are anywhere near my favorites, so I am showing no bias toward any series.

I would say these two series were the biggest detriment to anime. They emphaisiezed filler content, terrible dubs, and heavy censorship. Though no where near to the degree one piece had suffered. But when we talk about anime and its essence, dubs are not part of that, and actually these two series made japanese subtitled shows less acceptable even though they were inferior products, so imo they have set back anime in the western world. I know I'm harsh but thats the my opinion, that the localizations of these shows have in fact set back anime, considering their demographics to be shounen, in the end they created a stereotype that anime was for kids and not a medium such as scripted television was, for all age groups.

[Vexx]

I'm always amused by how *many* people have no idea that Pokemon or DBZ were originally Japanese series for Japanese --- most of them seemed to think it was just an American cartoon "with animation outsourced to Japan".

So much for hyperlocalization, re-edits, and dubs :P

[Ash Falls Town]

I don't know any specific series but I would have to say the most important ones would be the ones that either:
1. Create new genres
1a. and less importantly sub-genres
2. Start careers of prolific members of the anime industry
3. Become cultural icons
4. Cause national turmoil and/or international incidents

About Pokemon and Dragon Ball Z

Originally Posted by Nosauz

I would say these two series were the biggest detriment to anime. They emphaisiezed filler content, terrible dubs, and heavy censorship.

Originally Posted by Nosauz

I know I'm harsh but thats the my opinion, that the localizations of these shows have in fact set back anime, considering their demographics to be shounen, in the end they created a stereotype that anime was for kids and not a medium such as scripted television was, for all age groups.

I have two things to say to this:
Firstly, the detrimental effects of anime are very important to the entire anime industry, quite possibly more importantly than anime successes. Pokemon after all created greater content regulation and all those "Please sit far away in a brightly lit room" messages.
Secondly, why shouldn't Japanese children have the privilege of watching home grown animation? Many 1st world nations have their own children's cartoons.

[jedinat]

Originally Posted by Ash Falls Town

About Pokemon and Dragon Ball Z

I have two things to say to this:
Firstly, the detrimental effects of anime are very important to the entire anime industry, quite possibly more importantly than anime successes.

Err, what?? lol
That does not make sense on a very basic and logical level.

Originally Posted by Ash Falls Town

Pokemon after all created greater content regulation and all those "Please sit far away in a brightly lit room" messages.
Secondly, why shouldn't Japanese children have the privilege of watching home grown animation? Many 1st world nations have their own children's cartoons.

Maybe you misread Nosauz's post, because no one has suggested there is anything wrong with the Japanese watching their own anime.

[Ash Falls Town]

Originally Posted by jedinat

Err, what?? lol
That does not make sense on a very basic and logical level.

Well in this context I meant in the sense of the history of anime. It's like saying the fall of Rome was important to the development of modern society. To go back to the list in the first post it's like how E.T. was important because it destroyed all the weak companies along with it thus letting Nintendo plant a flag in the industries ashes.

Originally Posted by jedinat

Maybe you misread Nosauz's post, because no one has suggested there is anything wrong with the Japanese watching their own anime.

He did however imply that the Japanese shouldn't of created those two series. Pokemon, even factoring in the negative effects of the seizure episode, has helped create one of Japan's most famous modern cultural exports. It also probably influenced many later children's anime.
Dragon Ball on the other hand quite more noticeably influenced later fighting shonen series although I don't know to what extent.

[Schneizel]

Originally Posted by Nosauz

I would say these two series were the biggest detriment to anime.

The way you use the word detriment and go on to go "they did [xx] and this all sucked", you're saying you don't think they should be recognized as being influencial, but the fact you and many others (inc. people who might not have even seen them) can go on to list all of their detriments proves their influence on the industry, and I'm pretty sure this is about industry influence if I've read the opening post correctly.

[jedinat]

Originally Posted by Ash Falls Town

Well in this context I meant in the sense of the history of anime. It's like saying the fall of Rome was important to the development of modern society. To go back to the list in the first post it's like how E.T. was important because it destroyed all the weak companies along with it thus letting Nintendo plant a flag in the industries ashes.

Even in that "sense" it doesn't really make sense. It's not the "detrimental effects" themselves that might be important. But I am nitpicking now; it doesn't really matter.

Originally Posted by Ash Falls Town

He did however imply that the Japanese shouldn't of created those two series. Pokemon, even factoring in the negative effects of the seizure episode, has helped create one of Japan's most famous modern cultural exports. It also probably influenced many later children's anime.
Dragon Ball on the other hand quite more noticeably influenced later fighting shonen series although I don't know to what extent.

The essence of his argument was that the popularization of DBZ and Pokemon (western audiences) gave anime a misleading reputation that it has since needed to overcome. I think the objection was more to the poor localization than their creation.

[C.A.]

Hoho, most people don't know how important mecha is to the anime industry. I've been talking about Mazinger Z itself quite abit, I'll just copypasta here:

Originally Posted by C.A. @ the importance of the mecha series and Mazinger

Well, the most important thing Mazinger did was saving the anime industry back in the late 70's.

The anime industry was not doing very well and needed new ideas. So Go Nagai threw in Mazinger Z and immediately brought in a revolution in anime. Mazinger Z as a robot with a pilot, was a completely new and fresh idea and it captured the imaginations of audience. You don't need super human powers to be a hero, but you can pilot a super robot to be a super hero.

Thus the mecha genre was created and immediately spawned a whole slew of mecha anime which densely populated the tv time slots and brought the anime industry back to its feet. The 80's was the golden age of anime, ruled by mecha anime. Its the age where it has the most super robots, Gundam, Macross and other famous oldies.

Mazinger Z himself was not just a fictional savior of Earth but saved the anime industry itself.

The other most important mecha I've been telling people was Top wo Nerae!, also known as Gunbuster.

Originally Posted by C.A. @ Nanoha's homing beams

Heh heh, you didn't know but the very original twisted beam is from Gainax's super revolutionary mecha anime of 1989, Top wo Nerae!

That anime introduced so many revolutionary effects 2 of them most influential are:

Homing Lasers, yes the first recorded bending and homing beam is from Top wo Nerae!, not some magical girl show.

Gainax Bounce, and yes, Top wo Nerae! is the first anime in history to introduce bouncing boobs as fan service and till today crowned Gainax with the term Gainax Bounce. The main character, Noriko was the owner of the first bounce in the history of anime, she is the Miss Gainax Bounce herself.

Also Noriko was not a traditional character. She was probably the first female mecha main protagonist of a mecha anime and she was hotblooded to the core, unlike most characters before her.

The mecha genre made many impacts in the anime industry, without mecha, anime probably wouldn't exist in a thriving state like now.

Modern Mahou Shoujo, fanservice, ecchi anime etc., owed their success to Gainax, Noriko and Top wo Nerae! itself.

[Nosauz]

ok, japanese products have always been localized, this initially started with Saban, later 4 Kids Entertainment. As a lover of the arts I find censorship one of the worst things, because 1) it strips all essence of the show, 2) its basically a false interpretation of the work 3) in the case of Pokemon and DBZ more specifically Pokemon, all Japaneseness was lost in the show. Now the reason why these two shows imo are a detrimant to the anime industry specifically the U.S/Western Industries is because in their dubbed form, and this is the only form I feel is detrimental (I was not clear on this but my reply was to someone who was also talking about the dubs so it was implied but not clear) to the way anime is viewed in the western world. Basically south park pretty much sumed it up, its a fad directed at children with no lasting impact as an artistic medium. DBZ was also somewhat bad, in the sense of the massive introduction of fillers to extend fights, check out yugioh. Since these two series were really the first break into anime they became the flagships of anime, and the expectations became as such. If a hit wasn't near pokemon levels it just wasn't considered, this was especially true for childrens show, which at the time I was watching. The influence pokemon had was astounding, the effect of the dub pretty much put a nail into subtitled shows being popular, because clearly americans are bigots and hate whats foreign. This of course is not the case, if people were associated with subtitles at an early age, they slowly grow to enjoy them when watching foreign films they can't understand, of course the goal is to be able to understand the source but its just not always possible. In the end Pokemon and DBZ created this giant empire that put so many restrictions on anime and a false demand on terrible subs that it really has set back the western side of the industry back.

Originally Posted by Schneizel

The way you use the word detriment and go on to go "they did [xx] and this all sucked", you're saying you don't think they should be recognized as being influencial, but the fact you and many others (inc. people who might not have even seen them) can go on to list all of their detriments proves their influence on the industry, and I'm pretty sure this is about industry influence if I've read the opening post correctly.

See the thing is, the op listed Astro boy, and some other potent classics, and to top that the op also gave us a link to what they were talking about, influential in a positive way. Why is that, if you go to the link you see the list of games, these games were all what made videogames great, no what made them bad, and honestly there are a lot of games that influenced the video game development in bad way. So from the way we are told to look at the situation, influence, is defined as the postive things passed down through anime, and in my opinion pokemon and dbz dubs are the reason why the anime industry has been set back 20 years. Just look at FMA, with out dbz or pokemon, if this show had been released as is during its time, it would have had more viewers, but because of the attached stigma for being anime, many older viewers never caught on, this highly evident when you look at the purchasers of FMA card game. Why do I refrence this, at the time I was working at a comic/hobbies shop, and I ran the local magic/yugioh/pokemon/ later to be FMA card games, genrally the crowd was, older guys played magic, and rest was split between the younger crowd, when FMA was introduced, very seldom did I see anyone above the age of 13 participate. The show was really dubbed well but in the end the main demographic it had caught was the pokemon watching crowd and not the older crowd. I know the ccg sales based on anecdotal evidence is pretty trivial, but fandom for fma prodcuts never reached the extent they could have had they hit more of the demographic. This is significantly so because expansions didn't come out as frequently say pokemon or even WoW card game.

Probably the most unappreciated dub is Samurai pizza cats, in itself became probably the only saban product I will ever watch. The actual dub to the series is what made it amazing. Why was this, basically they threw away the script wrote something of their own to fit the timing and events, of course the script served as guide to what was going but still in itself the most non detrimental localization of anime is Samurai pizza cats.

Just give an example, after Pokemon's initial success many others sought to tap this moe madness insane market that Pokemon created, what did we get? yugioh, Now not only did the anime for this show drop the dark themes and played them off, but in some parts they basically ignored them, also they used the dbz method of prolonging fights with over use of stares. This show was terrible, it was so bad I couldn't stomach the japanese version because of all the traumatic instances with dubbed version. Another attempt to breach the mainstream market but was unsuccessful was One Piece. When I first saw this show, at the time being literally reading naruto and bleach, felt the show was juvenille, and not until later when my friend told me to read the manga did I realize it was good. 4kids basically in attempt to make into a childrens program had made its localization so bad that it resembled nothing like the original and basically turned away much older fans. All these things came from the mainstream success of pokemon, there is no other explanation. Also who the hell translates ramen into spagetti... sigh

[GreenLama]

Originally Posted by Nosauz

I would say these two series were the biggest detriment to anime. They emphaisiezed filler content, terrible dubs, and heavy censorship. Though no where near to the degree one piece had suffered. But when we talk about anime and its essence, dubs are not part of that, and actually these two series made japanese subtitled shows less acceptable even though they were inferior products, so imo they have set back anime in the western world. I know I'm harsh but thats the my opinion, that the localizations of these shows have in fact set back anime, considering their demographics to be shounen, in the end they created a stereotype that anime was for kids and not a medium such as scripted television was, for all age groups.

As much as you feel that way they both still helped to create media empires and bring anime into the true mainstream in the U.S, which generated millions if not billions in revenue for the anime industry. So in essense reguardless of fillers, dubbs or bad storytelling, they are two of the most profitable and important anime's ever created in that respect.

[Nosauz]

Originally Posted by GreenLama

As much as you feel that way they both still helped to create media empires and bring anime into the true mainstream in the U.S, which generated millions if not billions in revenue for the anime industry. So in essense reguardless of fillers, dubbs or bad storytelling, they are two of the most profitable and important anime's ever created in that respect.

History will not be kind to these two dubs, what other shows did they influence? Other than brining anime to the mainstream, which it really hasn't been, these should be treated as a fad. Pokemon viewership is probably no where near what it used to be. Just because its profitable does not make it influential in a good way, its like saying hitler was influential in the peace that later came after his death. Its the other way around. In 20-30 years when you look back on the Western industry the blemish will be that Pokemon was just a fad, and no lasting postive lasting impact on the western viewership and their opinions toward anime.

[Tri-ring]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

I can't just name a single anime.

Grendizer
- Although it wasn't exactly the first giant robot, it was the first with a pilot inside it
- Influence: every other series that focuses on giant robots fighting monsters and aliens, Evangelion included. Naming each one of them would take a whole page.

Ribbon no Kishi
- It is based on what is considered the first "shojo manga" ever made.
- Influence: Every shojo manga that came after that

Kidou Senshi Gundam
- A sort of evolution in the "super robot" series. Gundam brought it at new more realistic level. However it is important for many other anime in general.
- Influence: Every other Gundam series, Macross, Legend of Galactic Heroes.

Hokuto no Ken
- The most notable series about supernatural martial arts.
- Influece: Dragonball, Saint Seiya, Samurai Troopers, Get Bakers, Bleach, Naruto. Indirectly even anime like Sailor Moon.

Maho no Tenshi Creamy Mami
- While it's not the first "maho shojo", Creamy is the one that set the standard.
- Influence: "Pelsha", "Maho no Star magical Emi", "Hime-chan no Ribbon", "Card captor Sakura" and many others.

I'm sure there are others that deserve a particular mention but i'll stop here for now --;

Actually the first Shojo anime is Maho shojo Sally which is also the first Maho Shojo genre.
Gundam is also the first Super Robot series that introduced generic series robots and not one offs.
Others to be noted are Devilman, Cutie Honey, Alps no Shojo Heidi, Testuji 28-go(AKA Gigator), 009, Oba-Q, Mach Go Go Go, Gacha man, Kimagure Orange Road, Kamui den to be the first pioneering there own genre.

[C.A.]

I didn't really read the thread so I didn't see Jan-Poo's post.

No, Grendizer was not the first Super Robot or mecha, or piloted robot. It's even a sequel of Mazinger Z, the first mecha anime, as I've mentioned in my previous post.

Kidou Sensei Gundam, to be exact Gundam is the first Real Robot anime.

In mecha, the genre is divided into Super and Real Robots, before Gundam, all mecha are Super Robots.

[GreenLama]

Originally Posted by Nosauz

History will not be kind to these two dubs, what other shows did they influence? Other than brining anime to the mainstream, which it really hasn't been, these should be treated as a fad. Pokemon viewership is probably no where near what it used to be. Just because its profitable does not make it influential in a good way, its like saying hitler was influential in the peace that later came after his death. Its the other way around. In 20-30 years when you look back on the Western industry the blemish will be that Pokemon was just a fad, and no lasting postive lasting impact on the western viewership and their opinions toward anime.

Well thats what I am saying, from a financial standpoint both the industry and the creators gained huge benefits from it. These two series spawned anime fan that couldn't have cared less about anime before Pokemon and DBZ, in that respect they were extreamly important. I am not saying they were great, or they were deserving of being the two anime's that launched the mania that they did, but they did and nobody can take that away.

By saying that "No lasting positing impact" will be made is outright wrong for the fact that lots of U.S and even Japanese anime fans probably started out with Pokemon and Dragon Ball Z, so while they may not be great series they did their share probably more than any other series in anime history to pull in fans and turn them onto anime as a whole weather it be more adult oriented, or weather it be more younger audience oriented, either way they created interest in a medium that was lukewarm and made it red hott. Nothing anyone can say can take that away.

PS: Pokemon on saturday mornings on the Cartoon Network consitantly pulls in about 4 million viewers and is the highest rated kids show on satAM from what I have read on multiple websites, so while the viewership in the U.S may be down as a whole, Pokemon still is at the top of the mountain. And they premiered the 11th Pokemon movie a few weeks back to stellar ratings, so again, while i may not like it, it should be credited to keeping the platform alive in the U.S and helping to spawn a generation of anime fans.

[Nosauz]

I'm not talking about japanese fans... all I'm talking about is the dub. If you ask any adult from the ages of 28-45 what anime is, most adults will say its a freaking cartoon. This is not what the medium actually is. This stigma is worse, because the people with money to spend on games movies, and other hobbies are the people I mentioned between ages 28-45. This is a coveted demographic because these people have spending money. In essence they locked out a key demographic and turned anime into a kids only thing. Where as American animation has slowly been moving toward just great family friendly story telling that isn't aimed solely on the child demographic. Thats why animated movies, such as Ratatoullie and Wall-E are hits, they didn't just get parents and their kids, but they also got the casual crowd to go see them. My point isn't about japanese fans, its about the stigma pokemon left on anime as a whole on the western world. And then to boldly claim that these two franchises are the most important is preposterous. You say anime was lukewarm??? Sigh... thats your opinion, but otaku spending proves otherwise. I admit pokemon influenced the market, but in a bad way, and as I mention before the op was pointing to positive influences on anime not negative ones. but then again you would have gotten that point if you actually read my post.