Madan no Ou to Vanadis [Light Novel]

[borisdrakoni]

Enigmatic's work on Madan was great. If you tweak it right, the machine method does work pretty well, and can save on a lot of the grunt work that ends up taking so much of a translator's time. I wouldn't have any objections to seeing more of that kind of work, as long as it kept to the same standards of quality. It'd especially be a godsend to projects that get stalled due to a lack of dedicated translators.

[black knight iust]

Originally Posted by chad001

It wasn't that they were untrained per se. They had traveled a large distance, they were caught by surprise, and then Tigre used every guerrilla tactic possible. Yet they almost won regardless, if not for all the sudden reinforcements, and their failure to achieve their grander objective.

It's also more likely that their army will be LESS trained this time, considering how many they lost to Tigre. which bring up the point, where do they keep getting their soldiers? Conscription? 200,000 people (even if a large portion of them survived Ormea) is a lot to throw at your neighbours in the span of under 5 years, especially for a medieval society like their own.

ever seen game of thrones. slave soldiers

[chad001]

Originally Posted by black knight iust

ever seen game of thrones. slave soldiers

The idea has occurred to me, but that brings up several issues:

1) The non-slaves still need to be a significant portion of the army in order to keep order, and prevent rebellion.

2) The quality/worth of each individual soldier is less than that of a standard trained soldier.

3) They are still going to face the economic fallout of scrounging up that many slaves, and the loss of a significant portion of their workforce.

Either way, putting together ragtag armies in order to throw them at your enemies is not the smartest plan they could've come up with.

[Flying Dagger]

Originally Posted by black knight iust

ever seen game of thrones. slave soldiers

Magic. Muozinel might be a densely packed packed kingdom... think... china and inda!

In my eyes. the Barbarosa guy may be a great commander. However he seem to be the type that directs the war from the top, with various unnamed sub commanders leading various armies into battle who may not be as cunning as their superior.

The numbers in Madan does seem to get out of hand (and logic) really quickly though... 20k pirates is really unrealistic unless they are all farmer+fisherman turned pirates due to the recent internal strife. There is just no realistic way to sustain that many pirates - a number which may rival a nation's naval force.

[Ramero]

Originally Posted by Flying Dagger

Magic. Muozinel might be a densely packed packed kingdom... think... china and inda!

In my eyes. the Barbarosa guy may be a great commander. However he seem to be the type that directs the war from the top, with various unnamed sub commanders leading various armies into battle who may not be as cunning as their superior.

The numbers in Madan does seem to get out of hand (and logic) really quickly though... 20k pirates is really unrealistic unless they are all farmer+fisherman turned pirates due to the recent internal strife. There is just no realistic way to sustain that many pirates - a number which may rival a nation's naval force.

There's possible 20k pirates, probably Prince Elliot hiring Pirates across the globe and not only around his Kingdom. Each ship maximum capacity is around 200-500 men so i assume around 200-400 ships based on it since each ship was most likely around 50-60 for typical crew.

If Mougenel was defeated due to lots of fallen soldiers, they can't mess Zchted for around 5-10 years due to total defeat of some army groups.

[ArchmageXin]

Originally Posted by Flying Dagger

Magic. Muozinel might be a densely packed packed kingdom... think... china and inda!

In my eyes. the Barbarosa guy may be a great commander. However he seem to be the type that directs the war from the top, with various unnamed sub commanders leading various armies into battle who may not be as cunning as their superior.

The numbers in Madan does seem to get out of hand (and logic) really quickly though... 20k pirates is really unrealistic unless they are all farmer+fisherman turned pirates due to the recent internal strife. There is just no realistic way to sustain that many pirates - a number which may rival a nation's naval force.

You guys forgot Brune's capital of NICE has over 1,000,000 PEOPLE. There are very few cities in medieval times after the fall of Rome had that kind of population.

Also, Barbarossa was doing his job correctly. He didn't go out and face Tigre and get shot. Think about it, if Tigre and the Vandris didn't have plot armor, their little campaign would had been crushed in a nano-second.

Come to think of it, the Vandris literally have PLOT armor, I mean, they wear dresses into battle for pete's sake. If I was the enemy commander I would just order my men to loose every arrow at her, and soon or later we would have a dead teenage girl then swept up what is left of her army.

[chad001]

Welcome to fantasy and LNs! Just be glad they're only worth 1,000 each and not 10,000.

Also, I don't remember Nice having over 1,000,000, may you please cite the specific quote for me?

[Mars Mode]

Originally Posted by ArchmageXin

You guys forgot Brune's capital of NICE has over 1,000,000 PEOPLE. There are very few cities in medieval times after the fall of Rome had that kind of population.

Also, Barbarossa was doing his job correctly. He didn't go out and face Tigre and get shot. Think about it, if Tigre and the Vandris didn't have plot armor, their little campaign would had been crushed in a nano-second.

Come to think of it, the Vandris literally have PLOT armor, I mean, they wear dresses into battle for pete's sake. If I was the enemy commander I would just order my men to loose every arrow at her, and soon or later we would have a dead teenage girl then swept up what is left of her army.

You do realize that time and time again history has teached us, that just like the strong crush the weak, the weak also crush the strong. There was no Plot armor, in the truest sense of that phrase. In fact there a lot of more ridicule battles in the History of humanity.

In brune there are no archer so your point about the Vanadis does not apply, without forgetting the fact they have a good inmunity to arrows just by the capacity that the viralt. This is a LN, that is no different to a game, just think of them as an unit inmune to Archery. Besides in a battle, when your doing a volley of arrows just aiming for the Commander has never been a good idea.(unless youre Tigre with his Feats)

[Flying Dagger]

20k pirates from across the globe give raise to even more problem with leadership.
Pirate ships have a crew no where close to 500. (I used 50 in my previous calculation, which is a fair number imo as there are no guns to man, assuming an active crew of 15 at all time, 3 shifts a day). I assume bands of pirates do not get along that well with each other and prefer to stay with their old crew (so no 150 ppl on a ship for the purpose of overruning enemy ships through boarding).

Ellen, Mila and Sophie all have defenses against regular arrows to a certain degree. Ellen's being the most powerful as a layer of magical protective wind. Mila and Sophie can probably summon a wall of ice/light to deflect attacks (Sophie's staff is really disappointing so far as it being used as a melee weapon to boink someone in the head vs the traditional spell caster). Archers are limited by the size of their quiver. Firing upon a vanadis fighting in the front lines from standard volley range means:
- You probably wouldn't kill her
- High chances of friendly fire as the vanadis usually lead the charge
- You are wasting arrows that could be used against enemy troops.
Using bow+arrow in the front line is very dangerous: you are wide open between attacks and bows are not guns. You can take an arrow in the knee and fight for a while.

Best way to kill a vanadis seem to just be wear her out or disarm her. Disarming would be easier than trying to land a direct blow as it can be attempted on a parry. Seeing how Ellen can still be injured by dragon fire, maybe some specialized equipment like a primitive flamethrower (pump+hot burning oil) can be used against them as long as they are not too careful.

They also wear revealing dresses because... reasons. Same as never getting blood stained, never developing a rough hand, not getting strong muscles from regular combat, or the ability to run around a muddy battlefield covered with dead bodies in heels...

[Leonardunitylim]

Logic.... DOES NOT APPLY TO ANIME~~~~~ LoLs.. Where in history has it proven that there are battle princesses who goes to war and emerge victorious with over 1000 heads fallen all the while wearing dresses?

[Flying Dagger]

Originally Posted by Leonardunitylim

Logic.... DOES NOT APPLY TO ANIME~~~~~ LoLs.. Where in history has it proven that there are battle princesses who goes to war and emerge victorious with over 1000 heads fallen all the while wearing dresses?

Joan d'arc prob did some of that. Her existence in history did not only turned the tide of the Hundred Years War, but also inspired modern japaense LN authors that it is all right to have 16 year olds leading armies to war.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by ArchmageXin

You guys forgot Brune's capital of NICE has over 1,000,000 PEOPLE. There are very few cities in medieval times after the fall of Rome had that kind of population.

Also, Barbarossa was doing his job correctly. He didn't go out and face Tigre and get shot. Think about it, if Tigre and the Vandris didn't have plot armor, their little campaign would had been crushed in a nano-second.

Come to think of it, the Vandis literally have PLOT armor, I mean, they wear dresses into battle for pete's sake. If I was the enemy commander I would just order my men to loose every arrow at her, and soon or later we would have a dead teenage girl then swept up what is left of her army.

Um, several commanders do exactly that. Which results in a lot of wasted arrows. Ellen can blow them all off course, Mira can freeze them, and Sophie can just up and up block them with a wall of light. While we haven't seen the others, one could easily surmise they have equivalent or greater abilities.

And if every archer fires on the leader, they aren't killing soldiers. If they aren't killing soldiers, soldiers are killing them.

Also, in general the Vanadis are either so far back that they can't be targeted except by someone like Tigre (who has never successfully sniped a Vanadis, by the way) or part of fast moving calvary in close proximity to the enemy forces.

[Kioras]

I don't really have a problem with the 100k troops attacking from Muozinel, it isn't much different from the attacking armies that the Ottomans brought in a few of the attacks on Vienna. The Mongol Siege of Baghdad in 1258 had an attacking strength of over 100k troops.

The 20k pirates sounds like a lot, however they could be fielded by as few as ~70 large war galleys. In war galley's, the main combat was hand to hand and boarding, if they did not disable the ship to ramming. The rowers would all take part in any battle and hand to hand combat, and would be part of any invasion force.

The battle with the Spanish armada, had Spain only using 130 ships, of which only 22 were naval war ships. The rest were armed merchantmen. they lost 1/2 of there ships, and had over 20k dead, from storm/disease and lost ships.

These numbers are very believable for the time in question, the only question would be how the author explains them

As far as city population, 10th century Baghdad was estimated to have a population over 1 million people. It is only a question on sanitation and food supply if a city can support such a large population.

[Leonardunitylim]

Originally Posted by Flying Dagger

Joan d'arc prob did some of that. Her existence in history did not only turned the tide of the Hundred Years War, but also inspired modern japaense LN authors that it is all right to have 16 year olds leading armies to war.

Well.... She doesn't wear a dress D= and when in the heck was Joan 16years old LOL.... Well apart from her inspiring story of being one of the few females on the battlefield ... I don't see how she could wear a dress and come out unharmed D=

[Mars Mode]

I actually had to look for this one I didnt know her name, but I knew her exploits.

Rani Lakshmibai.

[Ramero]

You know, it feels like Mougenel looks like Persia which always bringing up more numbers than anyone else's army.

Navarre was similar to England right? It's kinda strange a bit about few intel for Navy Combat. Assuming it was pirates Elliot probably got tough time handling them because Pirates are also classified as Mercenary as long as they can be hired.

[Leonardunitylim]

Originally Posted by Ramero

You know, it feels like Mougenel looks like Persia which always bringing up more numbers than anyone else's army.

Navarre was similar to England right? It's kinda strange a bit about few intel for Navy Combat. Assuming it was pirates Elliot probably got tough time handling them because Pirates are also classified as Mercenary as long as they can be hired.

pirates are essentially one and the same as mercenaries. Just that they are a lot more untamed than usual train mercs. Mercs follow orders absolutely, so long as they are paid to do so. Pirates may NOT follow orders but will still get the job done, so long as they are paid. So it is like 2 sides of the same coin. One side is just smoother than the other but they are of the same.

[ArchmageXin]

Also, I don't remember Nice having over 1,000,000, may you please cite the specific quote for me?

Sorry, it was my mistake, it was actually Zetched's

The Royal Capital of Silesia was located near the center of Zhcted Kingdom.

More than one million people lived in the capital. To the north was the large Valta River which passed into the sea. Products from various countries also passed through the numerous roads entering the city.

In brune there are no archer so your point about the Vanadis does not apply, without forgetting the fact they have a good inmunity to arrows just by the capacity that the viralt. This is a LN, that is no different to a game, just think of them as an unit inmune to Archery. Besides in a battle, when your doing a volley of arrows just aiming for the Commander has never been a good idea.(unless youre Tigre with his Feats)

I was actually refering to the battle against Monziel. I.E 2K vs 35,000. Even if Tigre and the Vandris was pretty much god moding, a smart commander could had wiped out their army down to the last man and tire the two into exhaustion or trap.

Um, several commanders do exactly that. Which results in a lot of wasted arrows. Ellen can blow them all off course, Mira can freeze them, and Sophie can just up and up block them with a wall of light. While we haven't seen the others, one could easily surmise they have equivalent or greater abilities.

Hence, god mode/plot armor/mary sue etc.

And if every archer fires on the leader, they aren't killing soldiers. If they aren't killing soldiers, soldiers are killing them.

Sorry, your 3000-10000 isn't gonna break my 20,000-40,000 infantry line. It is entirely possible to pepper the general area where some magic is AND kill your army.

Also, in general the Vanadis are either so far back that they can't be targeted except by someone like Tigre (who has never successfully sniped a Vanadis, by the way) or part of fast moving calvary in close proximity to the enemy forces.

Except in every battle the Vandris (Mira and Ellen) would lead the charge, with Tigres. This could had been easily countered by pikemen (as both girls where short range).

Once they kill their horses, the girls wouldn't be able to hold out against a massive mob rush.

[sasuke706]

Originally Posted by ArchmageXin

I was actually refering to the battle against Monziel. I.E 2K vs 35,000. Even if Tigre and the Vandris was pretty much god moding, a smart commander could had wiped out their army down to the last man and tire the two into exhaustion or trap.


Sorry, your 3000-10000 isn't gonna break my 20,000-40,000 infantry line. It is entirely possible to pepper the general area where some magic is AND kill your army.

While the novel went ridiculous with the number disadvantage, it's not like some actual battles were much different. Author does his research for the most part, at least.

[Flying Dagger]

With pirates:
the type of ship they use doesnt seem to be driven by oars. So you wouldnt need like 200 men onboard a trireme. Merchant sailship (pirates attack merchant ships and will take their ship as an addition to the fleet) usually only have a crew of 50. Ships did not seem to get more crowded until cannons come into play, where you need maybe 3 people for each gun.