2008-02-15, 06:55 | Link #221 | |
Shinsen-Subs Staff
Fansubber
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I agree w/ Fluff, if your machine can't cut it... it's time to upgrade... or perhaps think about BUYING the dvds... and you know >_> watching them on your tv. |
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2008-02-15, 15:32 | Link #222 |
Disciple of the Flames
Join Date: Sep 2004
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/me points to what he said originally
1) i buy the DVD's of shows i like 2) I don't see the need to upgrade a machine that runs everything eslse he uses perfectly. However if you read what i wrote, you'd of seen that my complain't wasn't about it lagging, but about it's size. Alot of h.264 encodes are coming out now at over 300mb, with the average seeming to be around 220-240. For me i'd much rather reencode them to .rmvb and reduce that down to 75mb an episode. Yes there may be a way to get h,264 down to that size, but i have neither the time nor the inclination to learn and fart around trying to get it right. Using .rmvb is easier and simpler. Install realmedia producer and thats it, don't need to do anything else, drag and drop the files, click start, and leave it be. I go to bed, wake up the next morning and all 26 episodes have been shrunk down from over 5gb to 1.5gb, and the quality is more than adequate for watching. This way i can easily fit 3 series on one DVD, saves me space on my shelves, and cash. If a show is good and i've enjoyed it, i buy the DVD's. Also .rmvb only needs one codec, don't need CCCP (which i do use and love, not putting it down or anything) or anything, just use RealAlternative and that's it. Since my laptop only has 100gb HDD having shows at 1.5-1.8gb is a god sent, means i get to carry my fave shows with me and don't have to worry overly much about them eating up space. I also get to have them going while im using my work apps, since the CPU useage is nine existent. I'm not saying h.264 isn't good, but im a bit sick of people saying it the bees knees and crap. As a viewer, i personally prefer .avi's since i can do more with them. Always have and probably always will. When a group releases a h.264 release, i simply reencode it to .avi then to .rmvb. Always will. Unless file sizes drop to 75mb or so, which i can't see happening. I've yet to see a h.264 release in any container thats 75mb, lowest i've seen so far was done by Froth Bite, which was 95-99mb i think it was. |
2008-02-15, 15:38 | Link #223 | |
x264 Developer
Join Date: Feb 2008
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H.264 needs only one codec as well. Difference is that RMV is a completely proprietary standard and should therefore not be used for any purpose beyond laughing at it. Why do people insist on using closed formats that are nearly impossible to use and completely aggravating for users and developers alike? If only fansubs were like the Scene--then we could ban people who posted RMVs, like they deserve. |
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2008-02-15, 16:02 | Link #224 | |
Disciple of the Flames
Join Date: Sep 2004
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As for banning people, thats just plain arrogance. Your basically saying do it my way or frag off. Not a good way to bring in the fans. I like .rmvb, over the years i've found it the best format for me, and until something comes along that is better and easier to use ill keep using it. Saying it's easier to use (h.264) is futile, ive tried it and the encoders gave me a head ache. I'm not a fansubber, and i don't want to have to learn how to be an encoder just to enjoy something. I have enough on my plate working full time aswell as working as a editor for scanlations. I'll say it again, .rmvb is easier for me to use. I don't have to do anything other than drag, drop and press. Thats it. I drag and drop the .avi files into the proggy, and click start. Thats all i have to do, no having to faf around finding out all the different settings. Want me to stop using it, then build an encoding appication thats as easy to use as RealMedia Producer, and gives me an output file of 75mb. Do that and i'll try it. Until then you've no right to tell me i'm doing something wrong or should be banned for it. I do what makes my life easier, not to please others. I download a release, seed it for a whlle, depending on the show usually to around 3.0, or if i need bandwidth for something else 1.0. Then i convert it, what i do with a rele3ase after i DL it is no ones business but mine. For the record, several fansub groups actually support .rmvb and release thier own .rmvb releases, so i suppose you'd want to ban those groups aswell. It's none of your business who groups release, they make their own decisions based on what they and their fans want. |
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2008-02-15, 16:06 | Link #225 | |||
x264 Developer
Join Date: Feb 2008
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2008-02-15, 16:07 | Link #227 | |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Subbers will release however the hell they want to. And contrary to popular belief, many subbers do NOT do it for others, but for themselves (enjoyment). |
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2008-02-15, 16:08 | Link #228 | |||
x264 Developer
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Since every single one of those programs allows you to set the bitrate arbitrarily, this statement is patently false. At least one of the encoders I listed is a one-click encoder, also. The point is that you're free to use RMVB for your own use--nobody has a problem with this--but advocating it for fansubbing and distribution use is simply nuts. |
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2008-02-15, 16:13 | Link #229 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Also.. OH NOES, OFF TOPIC. :< |
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2008-02-15, 16:16 | Link #230 | ||
Disciple of the Flames
Join Date: Sep 2004
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So until they actually do press legal charges, it dosent breech that rule (as far as i can see, upto a mod to decide). However i'm not breaking that rule, im not saying everyone should use .rmvb. What i've said is that it's a format best for me, and what I use. I'd also point out that ethically unacceptable is a grey area, since im sure if you asked the licensors if they found fansubs unethical, im sure they'd say yes Quote:
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2008-02-15, 16:19 | Link #231 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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TL;DR version: Can't play h264? BAW. Re-encode it, and don't advocate inferior methods. (Tiamat's Disciple: Not trying to be rude, just trying to get my point across to anybody who reads this, you say you're not advocating rmvb so that's cool.) |
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2008-02-15, 16:26 | Link #232 | |
Disciple of the Flames
Join Date: Sep 2004
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What i saidwas that some groups ARE releasing .rmvb's, i didnt say they SHOULD. I do advocate .rmvb for storage, because it's what i use. The only place i do advocate it however is on my own blog. And im LEGALLY allowed to do so since im actually a paying owner of Real Player and Encoder, (i use ERMP because it easier to use) for my desktop, i use Real Alternative on the laptop. Just as i'm a paying user of QuickTime. leet, it's upto the groups to decide how they release. Several choose to release 3 formats, .rmvb, .avi and .mkv, other also release a PSP version. Also, sometimes inferior is better Well, im done here. got more important things to do than to argue with people i don't know or care about over something that pointless >.< Time for work /me wants a holiday, somewhere nice and warm.... |
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2008-02-15, 16:38 | Link #233 |
x264 Developer
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Anyways, I'd figure I'd test the idea that x264 can't do small file sizes effectively...
(Yes, I know this wasn't directly stated, but it was an excuse to pull out the encoder ) Bitrate: 117kbps (20MB for a full episode, plus 4-5MB for 24kbps HE-AAC audio) Resolution: DVD resolution 2000 frames total, from TMHS episode 9 (Lost Island Syndrome, Part 1) Linkage (1.4MB) Yes, at this quality, you could fit an entire episode in 25MB. Encoder info: $ x264.exe --threads auto --aq-strength 0 --bframes 16 --direct auto --partitions all --weightb --b-pyramid --mixed-refs --8x8dct --progress haruhi.avs -o test.h264 --subme 7 --ref 16 --me tesa --merange 32 --b-rdo --bime --crf 30 avis [info]: 704x384 @ 23.98 fps (2000 frames) x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX MMXEXT SSE SSE2 SSE3 SSSE3 Cache64 x264 [info]: slice I:33 Avg QP:26.36 size: 11716 PSNR Mean Y:46.68 U:47.89V:47.47 Avg:46.92 Global:44.08 x264 [info]: slice P:495 Avg QP:28.55 size: 1458 PSNR Mean Y:41.66 U:43.80V:43.51 Avg:42.16 Global:41.44 x264 [info]: slice B:1472 Avg QP:29.93 size: 74 PSNR Mean Y:42.01 U:43.65V:43.50 Avg:42.42 Global:41.83 x264 [info]: mb I I16..4: 53.1% 19.6% 27.4% x264 [info]: mb P I16..4: 5.8% 2.5% 0.8% P16..4: 16.0% 3.1% 1.6% 0.2%.1% skip:69.9% x264 [info]: mb B I16..4: 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% B16..8: 2.7% 0.0% 0.1% direct 0.0% skip:97.2% x264 [info]: 8x8 transform intra:24.3% inter:48.4% x264 [info]: direct mvs spatial:87.6% temporal:12.4% x264 [info]: ref P 73.4% 8.3% 6.8% 2.4% 2.2% 1.4% 1.5% 0.5% 0.6% 0.5% 0.5% 0.4% 0.4% 0.4% 0.5% 0.2% x264 [info]: ref B 61.7% 17.9% 8.3% 2.9% 2.4% 1.8% 1.9% 0.7% 0.6% 0.5% 0.3% 0.2% 0.4% 0.3% 0.2% x264 [info]: SSIM Mean Y:0.9852739 x264 [info]: PSNR Mean Y:42.000 U:43.759 V:43.571 Avg:42.430 Global:41.756 kb/s 116.75 encoded 2000 frames, 6.17 fps, 117.03 kb/s |
2008-02-15, 16:46 | Link #234 | |
King of Hosers
Join Date: Dec 2005
Age: 41
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2008-02-15, 16:59 | Link #235 |
Pioneer in Fansub 2.0
Join Date: Aug 2007
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This is the first time I'm seeing a proper example of the quality/compression ratio that H.264 has to offer, and I have to say that I am very impressed. I'd say the video quality itself could be considered MQ. Personally I would bump the audio bitrate up though, since the video artefacts are very tolerable, but the bad audio quality is lot harder to tolerate... But that example is still awesome anyway.
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2008-02-15, 17:02 | Link #236 | |
Disciple of the Flames
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Your analogy is wrong. Real Networks is vocal in claiming that Real Alternative is stealing thie dll's, however has never backed this up with ANY form of legal action. So yes, in this case until they file it isnt illegal. If it were illegal they wouldn't just shout about it, they'd take action. Dark, just for you i went and tried those apps again, just for you. The only one that was remotely easy to use is RipBot, which is hard to use cause the GUI is some damned faint. As for the encode, i'll let you know when it's finished. As for the others, they all require other softwaear or knowledge i dont have. None are as easy to use as ERMP @Daiz, i agree. The video was pretty good, but the audio sucked. Which encoder was that? Edit: Nope RipBot fails big time, on the test file i used a 20mb AMV, reduced the audio to 96, and ended up with a crap video and tinny sound and 2mb larger in a .mkv. So i guess i'll be sticking with .rmvb for now. |
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2008-02-15, 17:06 | Link #237 |
Excessively jovial fellow
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ISDB-T
Age: 37
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I did this 25MB/ep experiment once years ago too. It looks kinda crappy (better than, say, youtube though), but x264 has improved since then and so have I. I didn't exactly pick the most compressible show ever either; if it had been something like Night Head Genesis (which reached average quants of around 18-20 at 85mb/ep at 704x400) it would be perfectly watchable.
ninja edit: ^^^ you don't have any idea about how copyright law works do you? Real Alternative is definitely illegal in all countries that implement laws that even faintly resemble the ones outlined in Berne Convention. I don't know why Real hasn't sued but it's not because it's not illegal.
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Last edited by TheFluff; 2008-02-15 at 17:18. |
2008-02-15, 17:06 | Link #238 | |||
x264 Developer
Join Date: Feb 2008
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IMO the best "balance" of quality and filesize for low-bitrate would be around 200kbps x264 and 48kbps HE-AAC, probably. |
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2008-02-15, 17:07 | Link #239 | |
King of Hosers
Join Date: Dec 2005
Age: 41
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P.S. Can you list the "several groups" which are releasing RMVB? |
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2008-02-15, 17:19 | Link #240 | ||
Disciple of the Flames
Join Date: Sep 2004
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RA may be ilegal, i don't know, but the fact that RN have yet to make any move other that stating they're illegal makes me wonder about it. But you hit the nail on the head, your fine distributing stolen anime, but not a codec, talk about ilogical >.< @Dark Quote:
And which version of nero would i have to buy, $99 is a bit expensive, especially since i don't like any of nero's other stuff hehe. Shame you cant just buy the encoder on it's own |
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