GATE - Light Novel Discussion

[Avrorrange]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

This series was written by a Japanese nationalist, and the Chinese aren't presented in a good light.

The chinese also weren't presented in a good light in mahouka, yet, it was translated...what they did in that series was much worse than what they did here...

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

There are ways a medieval force using clever strategy could wipe out a light platoon of modern infantry. A skirmisher force in a wooded area could skirmish with bows to produce casualties, or occasionally try to ambush with close in attacks (albeit, having to accept significant casualties in either cases).

I doubt that would work either. The ambushing must greatly outnumber the infantry, and most shoot at almost point-blank range. Otherwise, even in a skirmishing form, the modern infantry would still win in a gunfight. For such a tactic to work, a great sum of infantrymen must be taken up from the first strike. I would actually advocate the use of magic instead of using bows.Alternatively, the modern infantry could have just spray and prayed with the automatic rifles. In addition, just like most ambushes in Vietnam, the modern force would just send in aerial support. And then, if it does devolve to such a situation, the modern infantry can just reintroduce flamethrowers....the medieval guys are screwed.I have a question though, why would infantry even venture into a wooded area in the first place? This isn't Vietnam where the country is mainly covered with forest. The New World is mostly plains just like Europe. Therefore, I cannot see how there could be too much ambushes.

[willx]

Originally Posted by darthfanta

I doubt that would work either. The ambushing must greatly outnumber the infantry, and most shoot at almost point-blank range. Otherwise, even in a skirmishing form, the modern infantry would still win in a gunfight. For such a tactic to work, a great sum of infantrymen must be taken up from the first strike. I would actually advocate the use of magic instead of using bows.Alternatively, the modern infantry could have just spray and prayed with the automatic rifles. In addition, just like most ambushes in Vietnam, the modern force would just send in aerial support. And then, if it does devolve to such a situation, the modern infantry can just reintroduce flamethrowers....the medieval guys are screwed.I have a question though, why would infantry even venture into a wooded area in the first place? This isn't Vietnam where the country is mainly covered with forest. The New World is mostly plains just like Europe. Therefore, I cannot see how there could be too much ambushes.

I agree. The only thing that could've possibly worked is if you can bleed people out and prevent them from resupplying.. They aren't that stupid after all, they thought of using a scorched earth approach to prevent them from approaching the Empire itself, but unless they can destroy the gate they're going to be in for some HURT!

[Elestia]

Unfortunately, to destroy the gate the Empire would have to get past Fort Alnus, which has been already heavily fortified and setup up to be a classical star-fort type encampment.

[Seitsuki]

Scorched earth only works against more primitive attackers who will stretch their supply lines and rely more and more on foraging as they advance into hostile territory. Against a modern mechanised force, whose logistics are far more advanced, the only ones you'll hurt are yourselves..

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Seitsuki

Scorched earth only works against more primitive attackers who will stretch their supply lines and rely more and more on foraging as they advance into hostile territory. Against a modern mechanised force, whose logistics are far more advanced, the only ones you'll hurt are yourselves..

Right tactic
wrong enemy

[ZeKeR]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

Right tactic
wrong enemy

if my brain still can be squeezed, then scorched earth is only effective when the enemy moves too fast for their lines to catch up and they have to resort to using the land's goodies. Hell, in the Gulf War I believe the Iraqis gave a big middle finger at their attackers by destroying the oil wells and I believe this was frequent in the medieval era, most frequently targetting:

cultivated lands filled with produce - no way the enemy's gonna get free food.
wells - I dunno if there's a claim who did that but dumping it into the well with poo makes it unusable
waterways - blocking it. free water ain't free.
armory - now I remember that CoD 2 mission in Toujane where the character says that the retreating Germans left working stuff

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by ZeKeR

if my brain still can be squeezed, then scorched earth is only effective when the enemy moves too fast for their lines to catch up and they have to resort to using the land's goodies. Hell, in the Gulf War I believe the Iraqis gave a big middle finger at their attackers by destroying the oil wells and I believe this was frequent in the medieval era, most frequently targetting:

cultivated lands filled with produce - no way the enemy's gonna get free food.
wells - I dunno if there's a claim who did that but dumping it into the well with poo makes it unusable
waterways - blocking it. free water ain't free.
armory - now I remember that CoD 2 mission in Toujane where the character says that the retreating Germans left working stuff

Huo Qubing died at the early age of 24 due to a plague, possibly the result of a primitive form of biological warfare. It is believed that Xiongnu soldiers put dead horses, cows and sheep in lakes during the Gobi Desert war to contaminate water supplies and spread infectious diseases among the Han soldiers, in a form of native witchcraft curse. (Ironically, the fleeing Xiongnu tribes ended up suffering the worse due to their bad living conditions and poor knowledge in medicine.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huo_Qubing

one of the earliest evidence of use of biological weapons.

[Avrorrange]

Originally Posted by ZeKeR

if my brain still can be squeezed, then scorched earth is only effective when the enemy moves too fast for their lines to catch up and they have to resort to using the land's goodies. Hell, in the Gulf War I believe the Iraqis gave a big middle finger at their attackers by destroying the oil wells and I believe this was frequent in the medieval era, most frequently targetting:

cultivated lands filled with produce - no way the enemy's gonna get free food.
wells - I dunno if there's a claim who did that but dumping it into the well with poo makes it unusable
waterways - blocking it. free water ain't free.
armory - now I remember that CoD 2 mission in Toujane where the character says that the retreating Germans left working stuff

The Iraqis destroying their oil wells was useless. As for supplies in a modern army, they could be transported by planes, which is fast and efficient. There's less than 50,000 Japanese soldiers. There's no way supply couldn't be managed by helicopters and transport planes alone. Since the Americans were so eager to get involved and provide supplies, they could have provided a whole lot of C-130 Hercules. As for water, a year or two ago, the Israelis have invented a portable water vapor collector for military use, I think.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by darthfanta

I doubt that would work either. The ambushing must greatly outnumber the infantry, and most shoot at almost point-blank range. Otherwise, even in a skirmishing form, the modern infantry would still win in a gunfight. For such a tactic to work, a great sum of infantrymen must be taken up from the first strike. I would actually advocate the use of magic instead of using bows.Alternatively, the modern infantry could have just spray and prayed with the automatic rifles. In addition, just like most ambushes in Vietnam, the modern force would just send in aerial support.

I'm talking about a rifle platoon that's completely cut off. A much larger force of medieval skirmisher infantry could eventually wear them down through ambushes. The idea being that by trying to suppress the skirmishers, they end up using too much of their ammo to be able to stop a charge.

But as you said. Considering the JSDF are using combined arms and are in the new world at least on the battalion/regiment level, that's irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Elestia

Unfortunately, to destroy the gate the Empire would have to get past Fort Alnus, which has been already heavily fortified and setup up to be a classical star-fort type encampment.

That's not actually a good assumption to make. As is, the JSDF has no idea on what mechanics the gate operates on. So you can't exactly empirically say that the opposition HAS to get past the fort to shut down the gate.

Originally Posted by ZeKeR

if my brain still can be squeezed, then scorched earth is only effective when the enemy moves too fast for their lines to catch up and they have to resort to using the land's goodies. Hell, in the Gulf War I believe the Iraqis gave a big middle finger at their attackers by destroying the oil wells and I believe this was frequent in the medieval era, most frequently targetting:

That was less about trying to stop the Coalition advance, and more about wanting to hurt Kuwait out of spite.

...besides. Unrefined oil isn't exactly much use to military vehicles.



though for now, the Japanese don't really have logistical difficulties. For all transportation purposes, their front-line base IS in the middle of tokyo. All they need to do is drive trucks through the gate.

[Okashira]

The series has broken the 310k units sold (source).

I don't know if that's also adding the manga volume (which sells shouldn't be that high with only 1 volume out as of know)

Also, 15th hasn't been released yet, in case you ask.

[ZeKeR]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

I'm talking about a rifle platoon that's completely cut off. A much larger force of medieval skirmisher infantry could eventually wear them down through ambushes. The idea being that by trying to suppress the skirmishers, they end up using too much of their ammo to be able to stop a charge.

But as you said. Considering the JSDF are using combined arms and are in the new world at least on the battalion/regiment level, that's irrelevant.

That's not actually a good assumption to make. As is, the JSDF has no idea on what mechanics the gate operates on. So you can't exactly empirically say that the opposition HAS to get past the fort to shut down the gate.

That was less about trying to stop the Coalition advance, and more about wanting to hurt Kuwait out of spite.

...besides. Unrefined oil isn't exactly much use to military vehicles.



though for now, the Japanese don't really have logistical difficulties. For all transportation purposes, their front-line base IS in the middle of tokyo. All they need to do is drive trucks through the gate.

and there's no fear of raids, loot attempts and even supply bottlenecks (well, the bottleneck is still possible in this side).

if combining medieval technology with modern ones, then pretty sure the city will be an virtually worry-free of any siege or takeovers. If I'm right, then that town they protected from marauders will basically turn into something of old Constantinople due to the mix of race, customs, culture and whatnot, the defenses (without counting air superiority blasting the would-be besiegers):

towers - there are times that the top of the towers are equipped with either ballistas or projectile throwing things. when the cannon was becoming more common, a tower could have 2-3 of those cannons but I wonder if one can simply put the 105 in there without sacrificing the rotation time or put oerlikons to add defense against dragons

gatehouse - MG's could provide indiscriminate sweeping, snipers posted could pick off suspicious people who're possibly spies, or PzF 3's just in case a battering ram decides to say hello.

plazas - best place to either put radar gear/truck or put armor carrying AA guns

area - either mine the area closest to the walls or put a moat with underwater mines similar to the naval mine.

walls - searchlights help where a lantern cannot.

[Elestia]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

That's not actually a good assumption to make. As is, the JSDF has no idea on what mechanics the gate operates on. So you can't exactly empirically say that the opposition HAS to get past the fort to shut down the gate.

True, but the empire has not bothered shutting down the gate despite their horrendous losses. The JSDF has already established a beachhead on their territory and continue to expand their influence within the empire. It suggests that the empire does not remotely control the gate's function, although this is still speculation as we know very little about the gate.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Elestia

True, but the empire has not bothered shutting down the gate despite their horrendous losses. The JSDF has already established a beachhead on their territory and continue to expand their influence within the empire. It suggests that the empire does not remotely control the gate's function, although this is still speculation as we know very little about the gate.

To be fair, we haven't even gone into how the EMPIRE the gate up...or even if it WAS the empire that opened the gate up.

[Seitsuki]

They obviously knew what it does if their first response was not a scouting party or diplomatic mission but a war host. Also judging from their panicked response of a reclamation attempt, the need physical possession of the gate itself to control it and most likely have no idea how to affect it in any other way. My guess is that Gates pop up form time to time, often to other backwards worlds, they send in conquering armies to enslave/plunder the contents, and it's worked out very well for them until they were introduced very forcefully to gunpowder.

[Avrorrange]

Originally Posted by Seitsuki

They obviously knew what it does if their first response was not a scouting party or diplomatic mission but a war host. Also judging from their panicked response of a reclamation attempt, the need physical possession of the gate itself to control it and most likely have no idea how to affect it in any other way. My guess is that Gates pop up form time to time, often to other backwards worlds, they send in conquering armies to enslave/plunder the contents, and it's worked out very well for them until they were introduced very forcefully to gunpowder.

I seriously wonder why the Empire even tried to conquer a new world. If i am not mistaken, the empire's boundary is limited to the continent they were on only. That means that there are more lands outside their continent.

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by darthfanta

I seriously wonder why the Empire even tried to conquer a new world. If i am not mistaken, the empire's boundary is limited to the continent they were on only. That means that there are more lands outside their continent.

my idea is a bit similar Seitsuki, when the GAte appear, the empire already prepared for fighting, so its mean that the Empire either have infomation about the gate or as Seitsuki said, its already appear before link to a lower developments world, allowed the Empire to do as they please,i only try the manga so far but i thinks Seitsuki give quite a good explaination about this, if the Gate appear before in the past link to lower development world, then conquer it is easier than fighting another country in the same world because they most likely possess similar technology.

[Renegade334]

Ch.15 is on the server.

Spoiler:

The princess, accompanied by her aide (the one she tasked with seducing Itami), makes a trip to Alnus Hill, sees the JSSDF troops training around (MOUT/room-clearing, tank maneuvers) and meets with the base commander (and the far right-leaning, glasses guy).

Chapter ends with Itami receiving a text message on his phone.

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by darthfanta

I seriously wonder why the Empire even tried to conquer a new world. If i am not mistaken, the empire's boundary is limited to the continent they were on only. That means that there are more lands outside their continent.

Well I don't think it was ever stated why the empire tried to take over our side of the gate but we know that the emperor had already taken over pretty much everything on his side. So popular theory is he got greedy and wanted to take over whatever was on the other side of this ancient gate.

Speaking of theories my favorite one is that the population of different races and creatures are descendants of migrants from our world during the medieval era. Think about it the church is starting to gain power and everything mystical in nature is branded as evil and destroyed. In a last ditch effort to escape total extinction all the different races work together in a Noa's ark like exodus taking as many creatures as they can find with them. Disappearing through hidden gates scattered all over the land to a new world where an age of peace could be found.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

Well I don't think it was ever stated why the empire tried to take over our side of the gate but we know that the emperor had already taken over pretty much everything on his side. So popular theory is he got greedy and wanted to take over whatever was on the other side of this ancient gate.

What i can't understand is why the Empire never sent in a scout force. I can't remember any military commander in history i have heard off doing something this stupid.

Speaking of theories my favorite one is that the population of different races and creatures are descendants of migrants from our world during the medieval era. Think about it the church is starting to gain power and everything mystical in nature is branded as evil and destroyed. In a last ditch effort to escape total extinction all the different races work together in a Noa's ark like exodus taking as many creatures as they can find with them. Disappearing through hidden gates scattered all over the land to a new world where an age of peace could be found.

since there humans in this world, don't see it.

[Okashira]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

What i can't understand is why the Empire never sent in a scout force. I can't remember any military commander in history i have heard off doing something this stupid.

If he completely feels that he conquered his world (he probably does), he is probably confident enough to feel like he can conquer more worlds just like the his; totallarism (sp?) at it's finest.

About 15,

Spoiler:

The chapter ends with Itami seeing an incoming mail from Risa / Lisa