AnimeSuki Forums

Moczo · 2010-10-11, 19:11

Yeah... I personally like it better than the anime, but in terms of adapting the VN it also has more original material, so in some ways it's more like an alternate universe than an adaptation.

RadiantBeam · 2010-10-12, 07:50

I'd call it more of an alternate universe, really. In the beginning, it was definitely starting out as more of an adaptation of the VN... and then somewhere along the line the mangaka said "You know what would be fun? Making Shinji sympathetic!"

DragoZERO · 2010-10-12, 08:13

Made him what!? Gack. That's horrible. But original material was probably introduced to prolong the life of the manga. It's all about the Benjamin's you know.

Moczo · 2010-10-12, 08:17

Well, he's still an insufferable little asshole with an inferiority complex the size of Australia. But he's considerably less of a monster, and shown to have actually been a pretty decent kid. He's not irredeemably evil, is the key thing.

Basically, he was an okay kid who grew up to be bitter and paranoid, as opposed to VN!Shinji being a little bastard who grew up to be a Complete Monster.

RadiantBeam · 2010-10-12, 08:17

I know it sounds bad when I put it like that, but it's really something you have to see to believe.

Shinji's still a jerk in the manga, but I actually found him a likable jerk compared to his VN and anime self.

EDIT: Damn your ninja talents, Moczo.

DragoZERO · 2010-10-12, 08:20

I will always, always, always, always, always, always, always, always, always, always, always, always hate his guts. I can never forgive him for what he did.

RadiantBeam · 2010-10-12, 08:23

Then you probably won't like the manga.

Sakura saves him from death and sets him on the path of redemption at the end of the first major story arc.

Moczo · 2010-10-12, 08:29

Also, he never actually raped her in this continuity. He's shown hitting her once or twice while in the midst of giant freak-outs, but mostly seems to ignore her. There's actually a side-story where he and Shirou save her from some bullies in the archery club, and she wonders why they can't go back to those days.

The implication is that if he weren't obsessed with being a magus and convinced that everyone in the world was pointing and laughing at him because he can't be one and she can, the two of them would actually be a pretty normal brother and sister. And in fact, in a scene from their childhood, he's shown actually being a pretty cool big brother when he didn't know why she was adopted (i.e. because he wasn't good enough to be the Makiri Heir). But unfortunately he is obsessive, paranoid, and kinda crazy.

GDB · 2010-10-12, 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moczo

And in fact, in a scene from their childhood, he's shown actually being a pretty cool big brother when he didn't know why she was adopted (i.e. because he wasn't good enough to be the Makiri Heir). But unfortunately he is obsessive, paranoid, and kinda crazy.

Was that...

Spoiler for Manga?:

Moczo · 2010-10-12, 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDB

Was that...

Spoiler for Manga?:

Spoiler for Manga:

DragoZERO · 2010-10-12, 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

Then you probably won't like the manga.

Sakura saves him from death and sets him on the path of redemption at the end of the first major story arc.

Well, I can see Sakura saving him, but there is no redemption for him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moczo

Also, he never actually raped her in this continuity. He's shown hitting her once or twice while in the midst of giant freak-outs, but mostly seems to ignore her. There's actually a side-story where he and Shirou save her from some bullies in the archery club, and she wonders why they can't go back to those days.

The implication is that if he weren't obsessed with being a magus and convinced that everyone in the world was pointing and laughing at him because he can't be one and she can, the two of them would actually be a pretty normal brother and sister. And in fact, in a scene from their childhood, he's shown actually being a pretty cool big brother when he didn't know why she was adopted (i.e. because he wasn't good enough to be the Makiri Heir). But unfortunately he is obsessive, paranoid, and kinda crazy.

I guess the author wanted to clean the story up a little bit or something.

Honestly, I wish Nasu did a story more like that.

I need to find another rage-free and happy story now that I'm pissed again.

RadiantBeam · 2010-10-12, 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

Well, I can see Sakura saving him, but there is no redemption for him.

Well, just to keep in mind, Manga!Shinji is an AU take on VN!Shinji, for all accounts and purposes. So while VN!Shinji is certainly beyond redemption (unless you consider Shirou's comments in UBW True to be honest), Manga!Shinji stands a better chance of actually becoming a decent guy. He actually expresses some guilt over attacking Ayako when she decides to keep him on as the vice captain.

DragoZERO · 2010-10-12, 09:51

Sounds like a lot of fluff to me. I will always be biased towards the VN though, so yeah.

RadiantBeam · 2010-10-12, 09:53

Yeah, well.

I still recommend the manga, if only for the interesting alternate take on the story. And to its credit, it pulls off quite a few things much better than the anime did.

Cherry_Lover · 2010-10-12, 11:16

Spoiler for Manga:

Moczo · 2010-10-12, 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

Spoiler for Manga:

RadiantBeam · 2010-10-12, 23:56

To be honest, I'm curious as to where the manga is going from here. We're at the point in UBW where Caster's arc ended, but in the manga we've only really had hints of her backstory and only minor development on her relationship with Kuzuki. Not to mention, there's been no real sign that Archer is playing around with Caster like he did in the VN and planted doubts in her mind by commenting about the Servants.

I mean, I don't think there's a major problem with ending the arc here, especially if it's to head into the main story for Fate. But there's still quite a bit left untouched, and I'm wondering if perhaps the manga will take a shot at it or end things as they are.

Altima of the Gates · 2010-10-13, 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

Well, I can see Sakura saving him, but there is no redemption for him.

I guess the author wanted to clean the story up a little bit or something.

Honestly, I wish Nasu did a story more like that.

I need to find another rage-free and happy story now that I'm pissed again.

Its very odd to me seeing this desire to change him and how people like him even though he is still pretty much a practitioner of domestic abuse for petty reasons. Maybe because it hits home more for me, but I agree with you here.

Even when he was talking friendly with her, imo its because he was in a position of power over her (or at least he thought he was), that he treated her decently. Same with the VN, except to a more extreme extent. On both counts, it was never a relationship of brother and sister, it was always master and 'subordinate'.

Once again, there is a rather interesting analysis of characters here, now that the rape and domestic abuse has been toned down to "just" domestic abuse.

Moczo · 2010-10-26, 18:21

Woot, new chapter of Prisma Ilya!

Though I think the pages are in the wrong order... still, kind of a lot of plot bombs dropped, huh?

GlancingReverse · 2010-10-26, 19:12

Meh, the file itself has the pages in the right order. Probably due to the way the stuff got numbered.

Spoiler for Order:

2010-10-12, 08:13	Link #443
DragoZERO Spoilaphobic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: USA Age: 37	Made him what!? Gack. That's horrible. But original material was probably introduced to prolong the life of the manga. It's all about the Benjamin's you know. __________________ • Anime List \| Manga List \| Manga Thread Template •

2010-10-12, 08:20	Link #446
DragoZERO Spoilaphobic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: USA Age: 37	I will always, always, always, always, always, always, always, always, always, always, always, always hate his guts. I can never forgive him for what he did. __________________ • Anime List \| Manga List \| Manga Thread Template •

2010-10-12, 09:51	Link #453
DragoZERO Spoilaphobic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: USA Age: 37	Sounds like a lot of fluff to me. I will always be biased towards the VN though, so yeah. __________________ • Anime List \| Manga List \| Manga Thread Template •

2010-10-26, 19:12	Link #460
GlancingReverse Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009	Meh, the file itself has the pages in the right order. Probably due to the way the stuff got numbered. Spoiler for Order: Obviously, everything in the forest comes first, then that flashback of whenever, then the whole bath stuff. Not that it really matters, it's easy enough to get the important stuff.

2010-10-11, 19:11	Link #441
Moczo "Hey, Isaac?" Author Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Pennsylvania. It's sort of like a real state. Age: 39	Yeah... I personally like it better than the anime, but in terms of adapting the VN it also has more original material, so in some ways it's more like an alternate universe than an adaptation.

2010-10-12, 08:17	Link #444
Moczo "Hey, Isaac?" Author Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Pennsylvania. It's sort of like a real state. Age: 39	Well, he's still an insufferable little asshole with an inferiority complex the size of Australia. But he's considerably less of a monster, and shown to have actually been a pretty decent kid. He's not irredeemably evil, is the key thing. Basically, he was an okay kid who grew up to be bitter and paranoid, as opposed to VN!Shinji being a little bastard who grew up to be a Complete Monster.

2010-10-12, 08:29	Link #448
Moczo "Hey, Isaac?" Author Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Pennsylvania. It's sort of like a real state. Age: 39	Also, he never actually raped her in this continuity. He's shown hitting her once or twice while in the midst of giant freak-outs, but mostly seems to ignore her. There's actually a side-story where he and Shirou save her from some bullies in the archery club, and she wonders why they can't go back to those days. The implication is that if he weren't obsessed with being a magus and convinced that everyone in the world was pointing and laughing at him because he can't be one and she can, the two of them would actually be a pretty normal brother and sister. And in fact, in a scene from their childhood, he's shown actually being a pretty cool big brother when he didn't know why she was adopted (i.e. because he wasn't good enough to be the Makiri Heir). But unfortunately he is obsessive, paranoid, and kinda crazy.

2010-10-26, 18:21	Link #459
Moczo "Hey, Isaac?" Author Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Pennsylvania. It's sort of like a real state. Age: 39	Woot, new chapter of Prisma Ilya! Though I think the pages are in the wrong order... still, kind of a lot of plot bombs dropped, huh?