Abortion right or wrong

[OutSmart]

"My position is that embryos and young fetuses aren't people, so I have no problem seeing them killed. Harmonious is that they're people regardless of anything but DNA, so killing them is murder. Those positions are opposite, but consistent. Yours is some kind of compromise, but it makes no logical sense."

I stand with you but no one answered what I asked "I' sorry to interrupt but are we talking about abortion up until wich stage of the embrionary development?"

BUT IT DEPENDS ON THE EMBRYO'S STATE OF DEVELOPMENT, up until all his vital organs are minimally developed and it starts having brain activity

[kyon.haruhi.suzumiya]

Originally Posted by OutSmart

"My position is that embryos and young fetuses aren't people, so I have no problem seeing them killed. Harmonious is that they're people regardless of anything but DNA, so killing them is murder. Those positions are opposite, but consistent. Yours is some kind of compromise, but it makes no logical sense."

I stand with you but no one answered what I asked "I' sorry to interrupt but are we talking about abortion up until wich stage of the embrionary development?"

Oh, sorry for leaving you out. I think we're talking from inception.

[Thingle]

Originally Posted by kyon.haruhi.suzumiya

Oh, sorry for leaving you out. I think we're talking from inception.

Here we go again. Outsmart bases it on the humanity of the embryo (having human characteristics), but what constitutes the man ? because certainly, mere physical bodies do not fit the term.

Judging from his position, every object with human form/characteristics is human.

[harmonious]

Originally Posted by kyon.haruhi.suzumiya

My point is this, keep the law as it is, let people have a choice. Although I'm pro-life, I feel that harmonious is forcing his wishes on everyone. Which I don't advocate.

Either you believe that the unborn is a human, or you do not. If you believe that they are human and thus argue that the laws should be kept the same, then you are arguing for keeping murder legalized.

[Thingle]

Originally Posted by harmonious

Either you believe that the unborn is a human, or you do not. If you believe that they are human and thus argue that the laws should be kept the same, then you are arguing for keeping murder legalized.

1. What makes murder count as murder
Your answer: Killing of a human being

2. What constitutes a human being
Your answer: ?

[harmonious]

Originally Posted by Thingle

1. What makes murder count as murder
Your answer: Killing of a human being

2. What constitutes a human being
Your answer: ?

From earlier:

Originally Posted by harmonious

Someone from the species of homo sapiens sapiens.

[Thingle]

Originally Posted by harmonious

Someone from the species of homo sapiens sapiens.

What constitutes a member of the said species.

[harmonious]

Originally Posted by Thingle

What constitutes a member of the said species.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_being

[Thingle]

Originally Posted by harmonious

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_being

If a particular being misses a particular quality, will it still count, such as the case of genetic disorders and such?

[kyon.haruhi.suzumiya]

Right, since everybody's confused, I'm gonna have to put it this way.

I'm a pro-lifer, yes. But there's a limit to how far I'm going to push my views.



As a social worker, I want to see lives being saved, yes. But I don't think I want to cause emotional distress to people, and the furthest I go is 1-2 on the scale above. I don't want people to be mad at me for forcing my views on them.

Therefore, I leave a leeway for people to do what they want with their own body. i knows the risks and dangers of abortion, including infection of uterus, unable to conceive again, mental issues on mother's side, and more.

But it's a choice only you can make. I will never make a choice for others. That's why I won't want to ban abortion. Like prostitution. In most countries, although it's frowned upon, it's not illegal, for if it's illegal, there's always the black market, which may end up destabilizing the situation.

Originally Posted by harmonious

Either you believe that the unborn is a human, or you do not. If you believe that they are human and thus argue that the laws should be kept the same, then you are arguing for keeping murder legalized.

Now, I didn't argue to legalise murder. If you want me to put it right in your face, here we go...
DON'T MEDDLE WITH THE LAW.
There's a reason why governments are not going to touch this subject - because if they amend it, there's sure to be unrest. I only want the status quo to remain as it is.

[Thingle]

Originally Posted by kyon.haruhi.suzumiya

unable to conceive again,

Now don't even start linking this to some sort of divine punishment.

[kyon.haruhi.suzumiya]

Originally Posted by Thingle

Now don't even start linking this to some sort of divine punishment.

No, what I said is that the uterus MAY be infected - leading to inability to conceive. A punctured bag cannot hold goods. An infected uterus cannot hold a baby, simple as that.

[Thingle]

Originally Posted by kyon.haruhi.suzumiya

No, what I said is that the uterus MAY be infected - leading to inability to conceive. A punctured bag cannot hold goods. An infected uterus cannot hold a baby, simple as that.

hehehe. I'm just pre-empting people.

Thought experiment # 90211

If humans have 46 chromosomes, and this mongoloid had 47, is he human?

[kyon.haruhi.suzumiya]

Originally Posted by Thingle

hehehe. I'm just pre-empting people.

Thought experiment # 90211

If humans have 46 chromosomes, and this mongoloid had 47, is he human?

Huh!? Will the cell even divide into a zygote if such? Chances are, the cell will refuse to develop!

[harmonious]

Originally Posted by Thingle

If a particular being misses a particular quality, will it still count, such as the case of genetic disorders and such?

Does it matter? There would be a point where enough genetic mutations would take them out the human category, but again this is a discussion of succession of rights.

Originally Posted by Thingle

hehehe. I'm just pre-empting people.

Thought experiment # 90211

If humans have 46 chromosomes, and this mongoloid had 47, is he human?

Two such disorders exist, they're called Klinefelter syndrome and triple X syndrome.

[Thingle]

People with down syndrome have it though.

[OutSmart]

Originally Posted by Thingle

Here we go again. Outsmart bases it on the humanity of the embryo (having human characteristics), but what constitutes the man ? because certainly, mere physical bodies do not fit the term.

Judging from his position, every object with human form/characteristics is human.

oh I think you got me all wrong. lol

I'm against abortion when its already the fetus/embryo wathever its already well developed, already thinks, already hears her mothers voice,etc..

Even so, this doesnt happen all suddenly, it takes months for the embryo to develop up to that stage and until it does, I dont consider it like a living being, it has no live of its own as I see it.

If a woman doesnt abort up until all those months pass by (the months that take the embryo to evolve to the stage i mentioned) she shouldnt be able to do it after. But up until then go ahead, see if I care. After that its murder.

[Thingle]

Originally Posted by harmonious

Does it matter? There would be a point where enough genetic mutations would take them out the human category..

Then what keeps them in the human category?

[kyon.haruhi.suzumiya]

Originally Posted by OutSmart

oh I think you got me all wrong. lol

I'm against abortion when its already the fetus/embryo wathever its already well developed, already thinks, already hears her mothers voice,etc..

Even so, this doesnt happen all suddenly, it takes months for the embryo to develop up to that stage and until it does, I dont consider it like a living being, it has no live of its own as I see it.

If a woman doesnt abort up until all those months pass by (the months that take the embryo to evolve to the stage i mentioned) she shouldnt be able to do it after. But up until then go ahead, see if I care. After that its murder.

3 months is the usual period for the above to happen.

Still, I would prefer to save as many lives as I can, but I'll still give the couple a choice. It's their baby, not mine at the end of the day.

[harmonious]

Originally Posted by Thingle

Then what keeps them in the human category?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species

Originally Posted by kyon.haruhi.suzumiya

3 months is the usual period for the above to happen.

Still, I would prefer to save as many lives as I can, but I'll still give the couple a choice. It's their baby, not mine at the end of the day.

So you don't think infanticide should be illegal?