[Manga] Naruto Chapter 651 Discussion Thread

[Ero-Senn1n]

Obito wanted to emotionally break down Naruto but it's going the opposite way, as expected. But the funny thing is that looking at the current chapter one could say that Naruto is very smart and is very good at psychology, that's why instead of using his clones he used his friends and with that created a scene that had such an effect on Obito

Originally Posted by Ihaxlikenoob

So apparently So6P's DNA sword a shit apparently, or is the Sasuke/Naruto combo that good?

The whole chapter was not about power but about emotions, once Obito's mind was messed up by Naruto's actions he became weaker in the precise moment when he should have been the strongest.
BTW Obito is not a 100% sage of 6 paths because he doesn't have the 8 and 9 tails inside himself.


Now i just wonder what the hell is this creation of the world, in Madara's story about the 10-tails and the Sage the world already existed. I remember there was a debate about the origin of chakra, maybe this "creation" means that the Sage actually distributed the chakra taken from the god tree / 10-tails to everyone and everything (plants, animals) in the world. Still, why the sword, a sword doesn't seem to be something that one can create with. Maybe the DNA form of the sword is a hint: the Sage inserted the chakra ability/power into everything that has DNA, from humans to bacteria. And maybe the "natural energy" that's now in nature is actually originated from there, since plants and animals also have it so once uses sage mode he lends the "natural energy" of the living world around him and uses it, but everything originates from the Sage of 6 paths. This would tie together natural energy, the god tree, the Sage of 6 paths, Orochimaru's plans and experiments with his goal of knowing everything, why Orochi was so interested in Sasuke, why would he and thus Kabuto be so sure that EMS leads to rinnegan, etc...

And additionally Juugo being able to communicate with the animals would make more sense because his bloodline also has the ability to draw natural energy from the living world, which means he has a natural connection with animals and plants around him thoruh natural energy that connects every living being.
Also this could explain how can people sense each other's thoughts so easily in the latest chapters, it's ok that Ino became better with her jutsu but constant mental connection with the whole army doesn't sound like just Ino's ability, not to mention that even Kakashi is in connection with Sage-Tobito now.
Juugo alone being part of this whole thing seems also to be a hint for this, he is the one who can give some explanations to the readers when the time comes. He "talking" to animals really seems to be something similar to what now the "natural energy" powered army and Naruto can do.

As for the story, this seems to be a logical thing: the sage of 6 paths may have distributed the god tree-s chakra to every living being because he wanted some kind of mental connection between them because he believed that it's the only way to let people feel each other's feelings and thoughts and thus let them understand each other and bring peace to the world. Of course here we have Naruto who will succeed at this. And then the kyuubi's flashback about the Sage saying that one day someone will bring them all togethere again will have a clear meaning: the sage realized that he failed to achieve his final goal but he realized that there will be someone who will finish what he started.

[DarkHollowIchigo]

.....Kyuubi+Susano....looks badass...

Spoiler for Fusion!:

[Kafriel]

Rasengan of friendship shall win this fight, FT-style! Well, that was quite uneventful for an entire chapter, Obito seeing his alternative future after THIS many years was so damn cheesy...and Kakashi's shared vision smells like more of this stuff coming soon.

[jmacintosh]

Just when did Susuke and Naruto discover they could combine Susanoo and the 9 tails chakra? This story is bordering outside the plausible, even for the Narutoverse.

[Ihaxlikenoob]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Obito wanted to emotionally break down Naruto but it's going the opposite way, as expected. But the funny thing is that looking at the current chapter one could say that Naruto is very smart and is very good at psychology, that's why instead of using his clones he used his friends and with that created a scene that had such an effect on Obito


The whole chapter was not about power but about emotions, once Obito's mind was messed up by Naruto's actions he became weaker in the precise moment when he should have been the strongest.
BTW Obito is not a 100% sage of 6 paths because he doesn't have the 8 and 9 tails inside himself.

Okay I get it, Obito's resolve isn't rock-hard anymore, so he falters going through with his actions. Still though, wasn't it said that as long as a piece of the nine and eight-Tails exists inside Ten-Tails it will eventually return to full power?

Now i just wonder what the hell is this creation of the world, in Madara's story about the 10-tails and the Sage the world already existed. I remember there was a debate about the origin of chakra, maybe this "creation" means that the Sage actually distributed the chakra taken from the god tree / 10-tails to everyone and everything (plants, animals) in the world.

Maybe, I've been thinking that this is what actually happens; that the Rikudou Sennin spreads chakra across the world and founds ninjutsu.

Originally Posted by jmacintosh

Just when did Susuke and Naruto discover they could combine Susanoo and the 9 tails chakra? This story is bordering outside the plausible, even for the Narutoverse.

It's pretty obvious that Hashirama mentioned it during the flashback when he was talking to Sasuke.

Naruto didn't know about it, his look of suprise on page one confirms it.

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

BTW Obito is not a 100% sage of 6 paths because he doesn't have the 8 and 9 tails inside himself.

i think its more because he is not the proper fusion/mix of senju/uchiha powers. he does have the 8 and 9 tails chakra, and according to the story, what he has is apparently enough.

as for the creation of the universe, im not ready to agree that there was a universal distribution of chakra. i need some clarity into exactly what that fruit was that O. Kaguya ate..

[SeanQ]

so naruto intends to have all his friends in the middle of the blast ... makes sense ... hold my balls

[Artful Dodger]

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

It also makes me think Kishi realized he messed up during the Pain fight.

The other ninja are essentially useless in both battles, but I'll definetly admit the Pein arc was worse in that regard. The entire village couldn't even take out one Pein body. Not one.The author could have had them take out a couple then face the problem of them being resurrected, but no, not even the weakest one was taken down. Of course upon arrival, Naruto takes one out with a single hit lol

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Artful Dodger

The entire village couldn't even take out one Pein body. Not one.The author could have had them take out a couple then face the problem of them being resurrected, but no, not even the weakest one was taken down. Of course upon arrival, Naruto takes one out with a single hit lol

Actually Kakashi and his team took out the mecha-pain. And the others were either hiding or escaping or they had to face people like Konohamaru. The explanation was that the majority of jounins were out on missions, we did see Gai returning from a mission apparently exhausted from it. On the other hand it is true that Shikaku who was supposed to be rather smart just said that if Naruto became a sage then jounins better keep out of there or else they'll just die in stupid ways. About that i also complained, because that wasn't too smart, especially coming from the supposedly smartest jounin of konoha. However even that was somewhat explained by Kishi by having Shikaku and the rest doing somesomething more important: they were planning to find the guy who was controlling the bodies. I think that plan was quite reasonable, because that way they could have helped Naruto more effectively.

[DKN117]

Originally Posted by DarkHollowIchigo

.....Kyuubi+Susano....looks badass...

Spoiler for Fusion!:

Dude, Sasuke's Susanoo is purple. Madara's is the blue one.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime

as for the creation of the universe, im not ready to agree that there was a universal distribution of chakra. i need some clarity into exactly what that fruit was that O. Kaguya ate..

When the chapter about stealing the chakra fruit of the god tree came out there were some people telling that it completely contradicts what the manga told us about chakra, and thus the author ruined the whole thing with that. For example it was told that all living beings have their own chakra and if they run out of it then they die (as Kakashi did against Pain).

My argument against that reasoning was that the chapter didn't explicitly say that all chakra came from the god tree, it's more probable that only very special chakra that later gave birth to advanced bloodlines and such came from it but all living beings had their regular chakra anyway.

What i like about this "creation" idea is not only that it would tie together many things that i explained in my previous post, but also that it's a much more elegant explanation than saying that the author completely contradicted himself in the most important part of the story or my previous explanation that is too complicated and boring.

Originally Posted by Ihaxlikenoob

Still though, wasn't it said that as long as a piece of the nine and eight-Tails exists inside Ten-Tails it will eventually return to full power?

Well it could be, i just got the impression that Obito isn't really performing on the level of a guy who created the moon. But anyway it doesn't matter because he will lose not because he is weak but because his mental problems

[MadaraXuchiha]

Everyone is on point here with their observations on this chapter. But is it just me or is everyone forgetting the prophesy told by so6p? Berfore he died, he assembled the tailed beats and told them one day the tentails will be 'ressurectd' but a reincarnation of him (so6p = naruto) with the help of kurama will save the day. Errrmmmm so6p ddnt mention an uchiha helping out did he? So why d hell is sasuke tagteaming with naruto to defeat obito? I kinda figured in the last chapter(650) when naruto, sasuke n juugo where powerslammed to the ground by obito that sasuke n juugo will be too weak to fight. And so all will be left to naruto as the prophesy foretold to defeat obito/tentails. But i guess kishi forgot dat eyy?? (Somebody get that man secretary!!)

[Midnight Commander]

Originally Posted by Artful Dodger

The other ninja are essentially useless in both battles, but I'll definetly admit the Pein arc was worse in that regard. The entire village couldn't even take out one Pein body. Not one.The author could have had them take out a couple then face the problem of them being resurrected, but no, not even the weakest one was taken down. Of course upon arrival, Naruto takes one out with a single hit lol

The teamwork rhetoric in this manga is a load of BS; I wouldn't pay it much attention. The equation is really Naruto, emotionally charged with wanting to protect his friends is stronger than anyone else charged by hatred or some nihilistic motivation. If teamwork actually meant as much as is touted in this manga, Naruto's team would actually be able to accomplish non-trivial feats, which hasn't been the case for some time now.

In this chapter, the team seems to be "sharing the glory" by being involved in the attack, yet this is but another attack that Naruto could have just as well have done himself and probably would have been stronger going solo, considering what a Naruto clone is capable of these days. So, the question becomes, in context of battle, what practical use are Naruto's friends if the author only allows them to do something significant when Naruto gives them the kyuubi's power?

Sadly, other than your typical utility-type sidekick assistance, some of their greatest work has been either getting mortally wounded or killed in battle, thereby providing our hero with the necessary emotional motivation needed to couragously press on :/

Originally Posted by SeanQ

so naruto intends to have all his friends in the middle of the blast ... makes sense ... hold my balls

I laughed to myself this morning wondering if anyone actually believed that this was really teamwork. Several chapters ago, Naruto was even controlling the kyuubi cloaks on the alliance, essentaially fighting for them, and now we have the rookies wearing his sage-like cloak and using his signature move... Sharing the glory indeed.

[sayde]

Originally Posted by Midnight Commander

I laughed to myself this morning wondering if anyone actually believed that this was really teamwork. Several chapters ago, Naruto was even controlling the kyuubi cloaks on the alliance, essentaially fighting for them, and now we have the rookies wearing his sage-like cloak and using his signature move... Sharing the glory indeed.

Yeah. I'm a little confused as to how that worked. I guess Naruto also made the rasengan's with the kyuubi cloak for them? Because obviously, none of them know how to generate a rasengan by themselves.

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Obito wanted to emotionally break down Naruto but it's going the opposite way, as expected. But the funny thing is that looking at the current chapter one could say that Naruto is very smart and is very good at psychology, that's why instead of using his clones he used his friends and with that created a scene that had such an effect on Obito

Gotta hand it to you. That's a pretty good counter point. Yes Naruto could've solo'd it, via kage bunshin, but it just wouldn't have had the same psychological impact I guess. So in a sense, they were very much needed--just not for their own unique powers and abilities. lol

[Alchemist007]

Pretty good chapter, waiting on Madara to crap things up some more though.

[Cookie-Monster]

Is there any clue thus far on what Madara plans to do with the 1st? It seemed as if he wanted to steal something from the 1st before dealing with obito. Has there been any suggestion on what his plan is?

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by Cookie-Monster

Is there any clue thus far on what Madara plans to do with the 1st? It seemed as if he wanted to steal something from the 1st before dealing with obito. Has there been any suggestion on what his plan is?

no more need for suggestions. madara stated quite plainly in chapter 647 that he intended to overtake obito after stealing hashirama's senjutsu chakra...

[Cookie-Monster]

Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime

no more need for suggestions. madara stated quite plainly in chapter 647 that he intended to overtake obito after stealing hashirama's senjutsu chakra...

How does that work?

How can you "steal" a form of chakra manipulation? Senjutsu is something you train for and learn to draw from surroundings. Theres no reservoir of senjutsu chakra inside hashirama to steal in the first place. It's like saying someone wants to steal the Rasengan.

Also i'm assuming that Madara's "trump card" from earlier chapters was the knowledge that senjutsu can harm obito in his current form (which naruto figured out anyway). So what exactly is Madara planning? Why try to take down obito? Obito is carrying out the plan madara wanted. I thought madara was some nihilist selfless badguy doing it all "for the greater good". Shouldn't he be fighting alongside obito helping protect him?

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Midnight Commander

I laughed to myself this morning wondering if anyone actually believed that this was really teamwork. Several chapters ago, Naruto was even controlling the kyuubi cloaks on the alliance, essentaially fighting for them, and now we have the rookies wearing his sage-like cloak and using his signature move... Sharing the glory indeed.

are you kidding me? Ino, Chouji, Shino, Kiba, Sai, Tenten and Lee are so important right now! If not for them... oh wait...

but yea, all jokes aside. anyone who thinks this is teamwork is sorely mistaken and completely under the influence of kishi presenting this as team work when in fact it's the exact opposite. and even if people defend to the death that this is teamwork, it should still bother them that this is all konoha. i guess the other 4 villages can just stop and go home now

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by Cookie-Monster

How does that work?

How can you "steal" a form of chakra manipulation? Senjutsu is something you train for and learn to draw from surroundings. Theres no reservoir of senjutsu chakra inside hashirama to steal in the first place. It's like saying someone wants to steal the Rasengan.

Also i'm assuming that Madara's "trump card" from earlier chapters was the knowledge that senjutsu can harm obito in his current form (which naruto figured out anyway). So what exactly is Madara planning? Why try to take down obito? Obito is carrying out the plan madara wanted. I thought madara was some nihilist selfless badguy doing it all "for the greater good". Shouldn't he be fighting alongside obito helping protect him?

Yum Yum Yum Yum Yum Yum. that's the sound cookie monster makes ha ha

Ah man. I was hoping you would go take a peek at the chapter Madara extended one of those black rod from his hand and every panel after that we see hashirama dodging the hell out of it. Senjutsu is just chakra and all you need is chakra absorbing ability in order to steal it. Meanwhile apparently you can steal a rasengan as we were shown in the Jiraiya versus pain fight.

It seems obito had a different vision for IT than madara does which was evident by him initiating the plan prematurely and other hints that we received when madara showed up to the battlefield