Another - Character Discussion - Reiko

[Yvese]

Originally Posted by Hakuromatsu

Spoiler for :

This debate was started in a thread (not on this site) which in itself revealed the spoiler that Reiko and Mikami-sensei were the same person and presented that spoiler as knowledge, not theory. This spoiler either consciously or subconsciously altered your theory (I'm guessing subconsciously -- you probably used that knowledge to go back and start putting the clues that were already in the back of your mind together); in either case, the theory was not entirely your own.

My own position was an unfortunate one. I tried making an argument as though I had never read that spoiler (which was very obviously a spoiler to me and anyone else who had critically watched the episodes aired to that point). I only wish that you, I, AC-Phoenix, and anyone else who was spoiled could've been given the chance to deduce it ourselves.

Even if someone said 'mikami is reiko' outright, that's not exactly a spoiler. Anyone with brains would question it and try and find out for themselves if they're right ( By observing and rewatching eps ).

I think I remember the thread you're talking about. Sure, after reading it I went back and put the clues together to see if it was right. Turns out the hints were there. It's not as if it was some big secret as I explained in the first page of this thread.

Also, just because it was a spoiler to you ( Because you believed it the moment you read it? ), doesn't mean it was a spoiler to others. You must think highly of yourself to assume that anyone that read that thread was automatically spoiled, and any theories/clues they find is invalid. My theory wasn't altered in any way by reading 'mikami is reiko' because I didn't have a theory prior to that knowledge. Simply reading it made me look back and rewatch eps and formulate a theory out of pure skepticism.

It's like telling Mary Jane that peter parker is spiderman. Do you think she's going to believe it right away? Or is she going to investigate it for herself and put the pieces together? She always had a feeling that peter was spiderman but didn't get confirmation until later on. Same thing with Mikami/Reiko.

[Hakuromatsu]

Originally Posted by Yvese

Sure, after reading it I went back and put the clues together to see if it was right. Turns out the hints were there.

It's like telling Mary Jane that peter parker is spiderman. Do you think she's going to believe it right away? Or is she going to investigate it for herself and put the pieces together? She always had a feeling that peter was spiderman but didn't get confirmation until later on. Same thing with Mikami/Reiko.

I think you missed my point...you make it sound as though you were subconsciously (and even consciously) influenced.

[Yvese]

Originally Posted by Hakuromatsu

I think you missed my point...you make it sound as though you were subconsciously (and even consciously) influenced.

Then what's your point?

I didn't have a theory prior to that knowledge so how was it I was influenced by it which altered the theory I never had? I was just like everyone else; it completely never crossed my mind of the possibility of Mikami being Reiko.

I was skeptical when I first read it so I went back and investigated it which I posted in the first page of this thread.

It's as if you can't accept the fact that there are people that actually investigate claims out of pure skepticism, and not because YOU know it's true. Just because YOU knew it was true doesn't invalidate my efforts in trying to put the clues together to see if it was legit. Just because I read the same thread as you, doesn't automatically mean I felt the same as you and automatically accepted it as fact.

The only knowledge I had was the claim that 'Mikami is Reiko', and the manga. The latter was behind the anime until the end of ep 11. The former I investigated on my own and put together the clues in the first page of this thread. Just because someone says 'Mikami is reiko' outright, doesn't mean it's a spoiler. It's as if you believe everything you read ( Which, sadly, most people in America do as evident by the current GOP candidates and media )

[Hakuromatsu]

Originally Posted by Yvese

Then what's your point?

You just made my point better than I could:

Originally Posted by Yvese

I didn't have a theory prior to that knowledge so how was it I was influenced by it which altered the theory I never had? I was just like everyone else; it completely never crossed my mind of the possibility of Mikami being Reiko.

I was skeptical when I first read it so I went back and investigated it which I posted in the first page of this thread.

Here's what happened. A spoiler was posted:

Originally Posted by Person A

Did you know....
That Reiko, Kouichi's aunt, is also Ms.Mikami the teacher!!! I never knew that.It seems her full name is Reiko Mikami, and Kouichi calls her Mikami at school and Reiko at home. I found this out in several places, mostly the Another wiki.

Originally Posted by Person B

That is quite interesting. I hadn't even noticed. Though I suggest people don't go to wikipedia to verify that, because as I just found out, it actually spoils a large part of the story. -_-;

At the time that was posted, episode 7 had been the last episode to air. Using critical thinking, it was obvious that this was a spoiler: 1) It hadn't been mentioned in the first seven episodes that Reiko and Mikami-sensei were the same person, or even implied in such a way that the "average" viewer would be expected to assume that they were the same person. 2) Person B made it clear that there was a clear-cut, impossible-to-mistake spoiler in Wikipedia, the same location at which he found out that Reiko and Mikami-sensei were the same person. 3) Person A found this out in "several places," one of which was the Another wiki (and another of which was possibly Wikipedia).

Don't suggest that I "believe everything I read." It was exceedingly clear to rational people like you and I that that was a spoiler. Your skepticism -- which was understandable -- was a response to something that was presented as a spoiler and should have logically been accepted as a spoiler. That spoiler became lodged in your mind whether you wanted it to or not, and your investigation of Reiko and Mikami-sensei stems from that spoiler.

(Incidentally, on top of all of that (I can't logically use this to prove my point, but it's worth mentioning) it was already clear by episode 7 that something was wrong with Reiko. At that point we had already heard the mynah's cries, Kouichi's grandfather being tired of funerals and saying "poor Reiko," the revelation that Kouichi was probably in Yomiyama in 1996 during the phone call with his dad, and several other small cues. Reading that Reiko and Mikami-sensei were the same person should have been a major red flag.)

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Hakuromatsu

You just made my point better than I could:



Here's what happened. A spoiler was posted:




At the time that was posted, episode 7 had been the last episode to air. Using critical thinking, it was obvious that this was a spoiler: 1) It hadn't been mentioned in the first seven episodes that Reiko and Mikami-sensei were the same person, or even implied in such a way that the "average" viewer would be expected to assume that they were the same person. 2) Person B made it clear that there was a clear-cut, impossible-to-mistake spoiler in Wikipedia, the same location at which he found out that Reiko and Mikami-sensei were the same person. 3) Person A found this out in "several places," one of which was the Another wiki (and another of which was possibly Wikipedia).

Don't suggest that I "believe everything I read." It was exceedingly clear to rational people like you and I that that was a spoiler. Your skepticism -- which was understandable -- was a response to something that was presented as a spoiler and should have logically been accepted as a spoiler. That spoiler became lodged in your mind whether you wanted it to or not, and your investigation of Reiko and Mikami-sensei stems from that spoiler.

(Incidentally, on top of all of that (I can't logically use this to prove my point, but it's worth mentioning) it was already clear by episode 7 that something was wrong with Reiko. At that point we had already heard the mynah's cries, Kouichi's grandfather being tired of funerals and saying "poor Reiko," the revelation that Kouichi was probably in Yomiyama in 1996 during the phone call with his dad, and several other small cues. Reading that Reiko and Mikami-sensei were the same person should have been a major red flag.)

Spoiler:

Sadly the wiki spoiler is exactly at the same height where you would expect the languages in which the Novel is available, thats how I had to find out. - directly avbove it is Mikami Ritsuko so there is no way you could overlook it even if you deliberately tried to not look at that break.

And yes, there were many hints, I actually wanted to make a summary with all of them but didn't have time to make any other screenshots then the ones I've posted on the other page. - The information that Reiko's surname is Mikami is actually more than enough to figure it out, especially after 'my poor Reiko' and the Bird's 'Why'.
The beach scenes were pretty much their version of 'in your face' as you could see her without her glasses on several occassions.
Its just sad that they cut most of the scenes where you could see how close Kouichi and Reiko really were. - the Manga for example had a page were Reiko told his father to give him to her if he doesn't treat him properly. There was hardly a page with Reiko not expressing how sorry she is for Ritsuko's death, or hugging Kouichi for some other reason.

Their whole relationship got pretty much cut and replaced by the beach scene

[Kanon]

Spoiler for Final episode:

In the credits:

Mikami Reiko Sakakibara Naoko

There we go.

Reiko was really pitiful in this ep. I had imagined she would ask Kouichi to kill her after being told she was the extra person, but instead she never believed Mei and pleaded her nephew to spare her life, believing he was about to murder her... ;_;

[Hakuromatsu]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Spoiler:

The beach scenes were pretty much their version of 'in your face' as you could see her without her glasses on several occassions.

The picture comparison you posted definitely made it very obvious. It was difficult to look past the hair color difference at first, though.

Originally Posted by Kanon

Spoiler for Final episode:

In the credits:

Mikami Reiko Sakakibara Naoko

There we go.

Kudos to you again. That was really quite the clever trick they used.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Spoiler for Final episode:

In the credits:

Mikami Reiko Sakakibara Naoko

There we go.

Reiko was really pitiful in this ep. I had imagined she would ask Kouichi to kill her after being told she was the extra person, but instead she never believed Mei and pleaded her nephew to spare her life, believing he was about to murder her... ;_;

They have comnpletely killed the atmosphere by cutting their relationship for the beach scene - it was, at least in the manga, a bit better.

[blakstealth]

Fuuuuuck, Reiko. ;__;

[Uberchu]

Does it bother anybody that they didn't even bother trying to

Spoiler for hair:

explain the hair color difference between Ms. Mikami and Reiko?

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Uberchu

Does it bother anybody that they didn't even bother trying to

Spoiler for hair:

explain the hair color difference between Ms. Mikami and Reiko?

Spoiler for :

I did, indirectly though...
One or two pages before I posted a comparison between those two and you can see that her hair is a lot darker once it is wet. Also note that most time we saw Mikami was either standing at a place with bad lighting, so her hair would naturally appear ddifferent. Note: The picture I posted does only compare the beach scenes with one of her hair's brigther moments, so you can't really see it there)

The real reason though was probably to differ them in the anime, due to every single character having a hair color fitting their character. (Yes those colorful anime-hair colors are actually an indicator for the character's behavior).

In the Manga both Ms Mikami and Reiko had black hair, Ms Mikami was also the one wearing glasses while Reiko had none. You could never see her eyes through the glasses though, that is probably the reason why they had to resort to the hair color change.

[Sheba]

Spoiler for final episode:

Good job guys on guessing it was Reiko. I should have remembered about the granpa before the funeral altar. But then I was so dead set on the extra being a student that it would not have occured to me that it could be someone among the teachers.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Spoiler for final episode:

Good job guys on guessing it was Reiko. I should have remembered about the granpa before the funeral altar. But then I was so dead set on the extra being a student that it would not have occured to me that it could be someone among the teachers.

That's why I kept saying teachers are also members of the class. A class photo includes the teacher.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by orion

That's why I kept saying teachers are also members of the class. A class photo includes the teacher.

Problem is that it got translated with 'extra student' most times. While you can (and should) technically doubt every information you are given in a mystery novel this is something you will believe easier as the orginal 'ghost' was a student too.

Another problem there was that you first had to expose Reiko as being Ms Mikami, because aunts and uncles are excluded from the phenomenon's effects.(maybe they are still in in terms of collateral damage)
After that you would know that she could be affected too, and include her in the range of suspects if you got the hint that the phenomenon's vicinity is not restricted by the city boarders but a certain radius around them.

[orion]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Another problem there was that you first had to expose Reiko as being Ms Mikami, because aunts and uncles are excluded from the phenomenon's effects.(maybe they are still in in terms of collateral damage)
After that you would know that she could be affected too, and include her in the range of suspects if you got the hint that the phenomenon's vicinity is not restricted by the city boarders but a certain radius around them.

Well his dad wasn't in the area and mom was taken out in an earlier year. So it would have to go for the aunt if the phenomenon was going to be appeased.

Apparently, the Japanese readers got a clue from the class list that briefly flashed on screen. And the beach scene narrowed it down too.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by orion

Well his dad wasn't in the area and mom was taken out in an earlier year. So it would have to go for the aunt if the phenomenon was going to be appeased.

Apparently, the Japanese readers got a clue from the class list that briefly flashed on screen. And the beach scene narrowed it down too.

No the aunt would still be save, his grandparents however not.
There was a hint that it only works in a vertical line.

kouichi himself was completely protected from the calamaity in the first place btw.
While this might be just a theory of mine I can actually sustain it with evidence as there were several chances where he could have died.
My theory is thqat Reiko's motherly feelings towards him worked as a protection layer.

[Ledgem]

You know, there's one thing that really bugs me about how the whole Reiko = Mikami thing played out. In episode 11, Reiko - as teacher Mikami - takes a mop to the head, falls to the floor, and starts bleeding profusely. Kouichi didn't seem too bothered by that. Even when he later returns to the burning inn, he's looking for Mei, and doesn't seem to even consider Reiko's fate. While all of that contributes to the viewer's perception that there's nothing significant about Ms. Mikami, episode 12 reveals that Kouichi knew that Reiko was Ms. Mikami all along.

Given that, shouldn't he have been much more distraught and worried when she was attacked? I would imagine that he would even be distraught enough to drop the the fourth rule, and just call out to her by the name that he uses most often.

The only possible qualifier that I can think of is that the anime series altered how close they were. Everyone is remarking that Reiko and Kouichi were shown to be extremely close in the manga (and maybe the novel?), whereas it seems like they simply get along in the anime. Even so, she was a family member - you would think that he would have still cared in some way, and that Mei wouldn't have been his #1 priority at all times in light of that.

[Myname]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

You know, there's one thing that really bugs me about how the whole Reiko = Mikami thing played out. In episode 11, Reiko - as teacher Mikami - takes a mop to the head, falls to the floor, and starts bleeding profusely. Kouichi didn't seem too bothered by that. Even when he later returns to the burning inn, he's looking for Mei, and doesn't seem to even consider Reiko's fate. While all of that contributes to the viewer's perception that there's nothing significant about Ms. Mikami, episode 12 reveals that Kouichi knew that Reiko was Ms. Mikami all along.

Given that, shouldn't he have been much more distraught and worried when she was attacked? I would imagine that he would even be distraught enough to drop the the fourth rule, and just call out to her by the name that he uses most often.

The only possible qualifier that I can think of is that the anime series altered how close they were. Everyone is remarking that Reiko and Kouichi were shown to be extremely close in the manga (and maybe the novel?), whereas it seems like they simply get along in the anime. Even so, she was a family member - you would think that he would have still cared in some way, and that Mei wouldn't have been his #1 priority at all times in light of that.

Although that is true, he did punch that one guy in the face for mopping his aunt in the face. He seemed pretty pissed off and was about to lay down the law until Misaki reminded him that they're trying to kill him.

But it's true that he should've been more concerned about his unconscious aunt inside a burning building.

I think the anime screwed things up by having Reiko get mopped in the head.

[Hakuromatsu]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

No the aunt would still be save, his grandparents however not.
There was a hint that it only works in a vertical line.

I don't know if the "two degrees of separation" rule worked the same way in the novel, but I have to say the inconsistency of the rule frustrated me. If the rule only worked vertically, and not laterally, then siblings should not have been included. This is how it should be, from both a logical and genetic standpoint:

Within one degree of separation:

• Parents
• Siblings
• Children

Within two degrees of separation:

• Grandparents
• Aunts and uncles
• Nieces and nephews
• Grandchildren

Within three degrees of separation:

• Great-grandparents
• Great-aunts and -uncles
• First cousins (you had me fooled all along, Misaki)
• Nieces' and nephews' children
• Great-grandchildren

And so on. Before I knew that Reiko was Mikami-sensei, I was debating whether or not Reiko could have been the Another as Kouichi's aunt -- had Chibiki just left aunts and uncles out of his explanation of the degrees of separation rule, or was the rule inconsistent?

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Hakuromatsu

I don't know if the "two degrees of separation" rule worked the same way in the novel, but I have to say the inconsistency of the rule frustrated me. If the rule only worked vertically, and not laterally, then siblings should not have been included. This is how it should be, from both a logical and genetic standpoint:

Within one degree of separation:

• Parents
• Siblings
• Children

Within two degrees of separation:

• Grandparents
• Aunts and uncles
• Nieces and nephews
• Grandchildren

Within three degrees of separation:

• Great-grandparents
• Great-aunts and -uncles
• First cousins (you had me fooled all along, Misaki)
• Nieces' and nephews' children
• Great-grandchildren

And so on. Before I knew that Reiko was Mikami-sensei, I was debating whether or not Reiko could have been the Another as Kouichi's aunt -- had Chibiki just left aunts and uncles out of his explanation of the degrees of separation rule, or was the rule inconsistent?

Yeah, I forgot about siblings. So Horizontal is possible in the first degree.
I'm pretty sure that the Another has to be in the class though, either as student or teacher.
You could even fit Sanae in if you make her homeroom teacher and School nurse. Would be pretty obvious though.