Hyouka - General Discussion

[billborden]

After watching the first eps, I will say that I'm "impressed"; not knocked-out or WOW-ed, but definitely impressed. I actually thought that the characters were believably presented, particularly the friendship between Oreki and Satoshi, and I absolutely loved the art. I'm hoping the the mysteries get a bit deeper as the show progresses, but I did enjoy that they presented all the clues to the locked door mystery as a natural part of the show (Oreki passing the janiter on the way up, the flash to the key-lock on the inside of the door when he asks how Chitanda got in) rather than only in flashback. It gives the viewers a chance to solve the mystery themselves, and it makes you watch the show a bit closer, if only to be sure not to miss a bit that might be important later.

Overall, a definite thumbs up

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I think the reactions in this thread are as much a sign of the times as anything else. With the abundance of one-cour anime and the ultra-fast-paced marketing cycle (people are already hyping up next season when this one's barely started), you have a lot of people whose attitude is basically "You have 1440 seconds to impress me. Go.". For the staff here to pick a decade-old novel series and open with an episode like this really suggests that they're not playing that game, at least not on the story front. I think you can only afford to do that when you don't have producers breathing down your neck every second saying "We've gotta make this a hit! We need a bigger hook! We need to sell more product!" It feels like they know they have all the time they need. (And ultimately I think a lot of people aren't familiar with the pacing of two-cour shows anymore, since they were getting to be so rare.)

You are right about the producers breathing down people's necks. Regardless of what one may think about any show this season, competition is fierce with some huge names being thrown around. You are also right that the abundance of one cour anime throws off the timing. But I will say every 2+ cour anime I've watched and liked as of late has given more to chew on within a very short time frame. Sure, at least 2 of these are action series... which have a natural advantage. And regardless, a not so interesting start can hurt things. Lucky Star might have compelled me more if it started a few episodes in, and yet the first episode, as boring it was has a certain scene that makes me laugh to this very day. If we look further back, all 3 of the Key adaptations also had something else in addition to great visuals that provoked some kind of interest. And these were not particularly face paced stories. Madoka everyone says was generic until episode 3, but there was still stuff in the very first episode that made me go "wait, what the hell is this?"

That being said, there are multiple paths to success and most of my favorite series have less than interesting premieres. However, it's always been an uphill struggle and I'm sure they have something planned. Which is why I'm willing to stick around and keep tabs or whatnot.

The main thing I always ask from the very first second of a show is "Why do I watch this?" Does it have funny jokes, a relaxing atmosphere, kickass music, pleasing character designs, an interesting plot or characters, well done fanservice , or just because I can't get this anywhere else etc. So it'd be nice if people would detail why the visuals are so great besides the fluid animation, etc.

Still, I guess time is limited, especially as of late so just everyone has to run faster sadly. Had this been last season...

[ion475]

Well...

Feeling wise, first series I thought of is Bungaku Shoujo (I haven't finish it yet, though, so I wouldn't go much further than this)
Animation wise, I thought of Haruhi about 3 minutes in. It's Kyoani quality at its best unlike Nichijou...
Story wise, seriously, it's just getting started and people already complain about it being boring...(Okay, Houtarou solving everything at Victorique pace doesn't help )
Character wise, first impression of Eru = Alice (from Kamimemo...they look too similar). Houtarou is your standard "trying to be normal" hero (of course that objective always fail miserably), and Satoshi is fairly interesting.
"Seichi" wise, no need for me to pilgrimage for once since I already had been to Takayama. Really nice place to visit.
Pace wise, you don't have to be Saki Achiga-hen...(Although it's the manga that's this fast pace unlike...well, the original Saki manga...)

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

For me I'm actually normally pretty patient. I just ran into issues because I was stuck several times staring at the screen and not registering any of the dialogue that was going on because I found it rather dreary which led me to rage a little bit (I'm just disappointed in the studio's decisions post clannad so don't mind me).

I actually came into the episode yesterday extremely open minded, and was willing to give it all the chance in the world. I just felt very betrayed. At the very least I can watch this almost just for the visuals, but I hope they give me something else down the road. Episode 1 just left a very very very weak impression. If another episode never aired again, I'm almost 100% certain it'd fade from my memory very quickly.

Reckoner, if that reaction was you when you were feeling "patient" and "extremely open minded", I'd hate to see you when you're feeling impatient and stubborn.

Anyway, that aside... this post sort of hits the point I was trying to get at: people with high expectation for this studio, disappointed by some recent events, and so they basically had one single episode to knock your socks or else they get blasted way disproportionately to whatever fault the episode had. And your comment about "if another episode never aired" is exactly the "1440 seconds to impress" philosophy to a tee. Not saying that it's wrong by any means... just a sign of the times. Well, despite the "rage", I think a lot of people will still give it the usual three episodes, following the old adage.

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

But I will say every 2+ cour anime I've watched and liked as of late has given more to chew on within a very short time frame.

Keep in mind that a lot of these are adaptations of newer source material that also suffer from the same sort of marketing challenges as anime; in a market overflowing with new and seemingly similar manga and light novels, it's important to put as many hooks as possible in the opening chapters. The fact that they picked a decade-old novel series despite there being dozens of ostensibly more popular and marketable series makes me think there's probably something to this work that has yet to be revealed. (Perhaps that's part of the mystery? )

[Flawfinder]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I think the reactions in this thread are as much a sign of the times as anything else. With the abundance of one-cour anime and the ultra-fast-paced marketing cycle (people are already hyping up next season when this one's barely started), you have a lot of people whose attitude is basically "You have 1440 seconds to impress me. Go.". For the staff here to pick a decade-old novel series and open with an episode like this really suggests that they're not playing that game, at least not on the story front. I think you can only afford to do that when you don't have producers breathing down your neck every second saying "We've gotta make this a hit! We need a bigger hook! We need to sell more product!" It feels like they know they have all the time they need. (And ultimately I think a lot of people aren't familiar with the pacing of two-cour shows anymore, since they were getting to be so rare.)

They have very competent staff helming this project (including, perhaps an irony given past conversation, the original novel author of Full Metal Panic doing the script, along with the FMP:F/TSR director at the helm), so I'm confident they know what they're doing. Whether it'll be commercially successful or not, who knows...

As I said before, it's just that this anime was VERY poorly timed. It aired its first episode really late, and it aired in a season that already has some of the biggest hits ever. The big upside to this anime is that I like this episode more than the first three episodes of something like Dusk Maiden of Amnesia and Accel World because I actually like the characters. The downside is that those two are popular as of now, plus there's stuff like Kids on the Slope, Tsuritama, Lupin III, Eureka Seven Ao...the list of popular anime goes on.

[MasterVampire]

This show kinda bored me.
Didnt even finish it.

[Master_Yoma]

Not to bad but the main male character seem lazy and dull

[Ithekro]

I wonder if the words falling off the billboard effect would work in 3D?

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Reckoner, if that reaction was you when you were feeling "patient" and "extremely open minded", I'd hate to see you when you're feeling impatient and stubborn.

Well basically I lowered my expectations a lot, and it still undershot them, that was all . I wouldn't of been upset like that in the first place if I expected to dislike it.

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Anyway, that aside... this post sort of hits the point I was trying to get at: people with high expectation for this studio, disappointed by some recent events, and so they basically had one single episode to knock your socks or else they get blasted way disproportionately to whatever fault the episode had. And your comment about "if another episode never aired" is exactly the "1440 seconds to impress" philosophy to a tee. Not saying that it's wrong by any means... just a sign of the times. Well, despite the "rage", I think a lot of people will still give it the usual three episodes, following the old adage.

Well what I was trying to say was that I sort of had that reaction yes, but for me that is not normal. Hey GC is my most hated anime in a long long time, but that took me 3 episodes to really realize I didn't like what I was watching, and I withheld dropping it till episode 8 thinking it might've improved.

Suffice to say, what led me to have a fit over the episode was the episodes inability to even simply keep my attention. For me I have the most trouble with entertainment that cannot even keep my attention span. Things I dislike don't necessarily have this issue by default, this is characteristic of stuff that I just find very boring to begin with.

So my expectations did play a role in it, but I don't really consider myself part of the "Tell me why I should watch you NOW" crowd. I'm usually guilty of sticking with too many anime far too long to my detriment in hopes that it was going to impress me later.

[Hiroi Sekai]

It seems like the unstable viewer list will stay as such regardless. That's fine, but I'll only join you when they actually do something that's worth disliking.

[Leo_Otaku]

Really beautiful animation and backgrounds. As always they do an incredible job on their quality. Best parts were the tripped out scenes with the hair and letters falling. I enjoyed the pace, but will see what happens next

[NaweG]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

The fact that they picked a decade-old novel series despite there being dozens of ostensibly more popular and marketable series makes me think there's probably something to this work that has yet to be revealed. (Perhaps that's part of the mystery? )

I presume you're referring to the upcoming movie?

[Skane]

Remind me to not recommend ARIA to some of you people. "Slice of Life" anime are not supposed to be adrenline-pumped, and anybody who thinks otherwise is just setting themselves up for disappointment. If you want to watch an anime that makes you want to chop bricks and wrestle lions afterwards, fine, but not all anime are like that.

Sometimes, just sometimes, a person wants to snuggle in, enjoy a drink, and watch a relaxing episode.

Natch.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by NaweG

I presume you're referring to the upcoming movie?

Well, I simply meant "I assume there's more to this story than is apparent in the first episode", as in the story is "going somewhere" with all of this. I don't necessarily expect the remaining 20 episodes (+bonus episodes) to have the exact same tone/flavour as the first.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Keep in mind that a lot of these are adaptations of newer source material that also suffer from the same sort of marketing challenges as anime; in a market overflowing with new and seemingly similar manga and light novels, it's important to put as many hooks as possible in the opening chapters. The fact that they picked a decade-old novel series despite there being dozens of ostensibly more popular and marketable series makes me think there's probably something to this work that has yet to be revealed. (Perhaps that's part of the mystery? )

Some meta-gaming? Well, that would be nice too. I'm sure they didn't do this just to pick something more challenging to adapt.

[Triple_R]

KyoAni's visual quality is certainly fantastic. Here in Hyou-Ka we are reminded of just how good they can be when they're aiming for realism and realistically-proportioned characters (excepting the "big eyes, small nose style" of anime in general of course). When combined with impressive articulation in character movements it does make for a visually immersive experience. KyoAni's tendency for random stylistic flares (but ones that are actually beautiful, and not primarily weird, a la SHAFT) also added a lot to this episode.

Now, actual narrative content-wise, this isn't exactly bad, but it has a flaw I'll get to in a bit.

First what I liked about the narrative:

1. Three of the four main cast members are introduced in a believable yet also oddly charming way.

2. I found those three characters to be reasonably likable. None bothered me at least.

3. Dialogue is solid. Never forced, occasionally clever, but lacking some punch. In other words, very believable and realistic.

4. Speaking of realism, that's one of the strengths of this anime, for people who appreciate that quality. This anime was very easy on my suspension of disbelief (not requiring one at all, really). "Relaxing Realism" might even be the tag-line I'd use to promote this anime, lol.


Now, the key flaw, and part of the reason for the very mixed reaction to this episode, I think.

There's a certain "beginner's" feeling I'm getting from this. Like a poor man's The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya. An anime based on a light novel you might give to a young teenager as preparation for reading Melancholy.

Basically, for me, this is like reading Animal Farm after I've read 1984. It kind of feels like taking a step back; of exploring a much more basic form of characterization and narrative themes that you've already read/seen in much more complex and developed form elsewhere.

If Melancholy is a bike, then Hyou-Ka is a tricycle, might be a good way of putting it for those unfamiliar with the two Orwell works I cited above.


So it's not bad, but it can be a bit underwhelming, at least to some of us familiar with other anime shows/LNs that it's similar to. In fairness, perhaps this will change over time.

If I had watched Hyou-Ka before having seen Melancholy (and Book Girl and Clannad), I think I'd have a greater appreciation for it.

As is, it's "relaxing realism", only beautiful. So it's a pleasant enough watch, but probably not one of my favorites of the year (unless the mysteries get more substantive or the main cast member we have yet to meet really catches my fancy, lol).

[MeoTwister5]

Lol Orwellian?

This show might become extremely awesome if it fact become 1984, set in high school.

[Triple_R]

Well, what I mean is, many of us have seen these characters before.

We've seen Oreki before. He's Kyon, distilled down to the core cynicism and deadpan snarker quality of the character. Thinks he wants a lazy life, but not really. Is wowed by an energetic girl that captures his fancy. Good deductive reasoning. There's literally nothing I'm seeing in Oreki that Kyon doesn't have. The only thing, though, is that Oreki's narration is solid, but it doesn't grab me like Kyon's usually does. There's a certain depth in Kyon's narration that's lacking here.

Eru is indeed like a cross between Haruhi and the female lead of Book Girl, only she's a bit more airheaded than either (she's obviously very book smart in her own right, though). Eru shares that love of the fantastic and the unsolved mystery, but again, it's a bit more simplified here. I doubt that Eru has an existential crisis like Haruhi has.

This anime is actually pretty clear in where it's going - Male lead discovers a more upbeat approach to life due to being energized by an attractive girl that longs for the weird or the supernatural or the mysterious.

It's just that it's a bit more clear-cut about this than Melancholy or Book Girl were. That's why I said that this is to Melancholy what Animal Farm (a book that almost every person my age I know of had to study in high school; it's great for introducing kids to a clearer understanding of how political themes can be developed symbolically in a story) is to 1984.


But anyway, I do agree with you on an Orwellian setting in a high school. That would make for a great anime, lol.

[Eater of All]

Watched it, liked it.

Enough has been said about the visuals and animation that I don't think I have to repeat it.

In terms of entertainment in its broadest sense, I can't say I'd rather watch an episode of Hyouka over an episode of, say, Fate/Zero or Space Bros or Jormungand. I do find the show rather unique though; no SoL that I have seen has ever conveyed an atmosphere quite like this. Nothing particularly eventful happened, but at the same time it kept my attention steadily focused on the dialogue and watching out for the subtle details of the scenes (especially after that janitor thing). It also did well to introduce the three characters: I personally find Satoshi one of the most fascinating side characters of the season. You heard it here first.

I doubt Hyouka will ever become a masterpiece (although it does have lots of potential to improve from hereon), but even if it remains this way, it's still a nice, quaint show I wouldn't mind following week-to-week.

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Keep in mind that a lot of these are adaptations of newer source material that also suffer from the same sort of marketing challenges as anime; in a market overflowing with new and seemingly similar manga and light novels, it's important to put as many hooks as possible in the opening chapters. The fact that they picked a decade-old novel series despite there being dozens of ostensibly more popular and marketable series makes me think there's probably something to this work that has yet to be revealed. (Perhaps that's part of the mystery? )

If anything, I think that's an interesting experiment. IIRC I haven't seen an old work being adapted in this manner since Level E, which was almost certainly less obscure than this.

[Yuutsu]

Originally Posted by MasterVampire

This show kinda bored me.
Didnt even finish it.

Yeah, found it pretty... but rather dull. Couldn't finish either.

Which is quite odd because I typically enjoy these 'slower', more mellow type of shows.

Perhaps my apathy may in part be due to me trying to watch this show very soon after a 3 hour Honours Physics final?...

In which case, I suppose I'll need to re-watch.