2012-06-16, 17:56 | Link #1 |
On a mission
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"We'll do it better on bluray"
There's been quite a trend in recent anime in which extra content isn't displayed til the blurays. Now, this in itself is a good thing-- extras encourage people to buy things. It gives people something to look forward for. Sometimes censorship restrictions make it too hard for some anime that want to show more explicit content to work with. Nobody wants just steam, for example. It satisfies both censors and customers to some degree.
So, let's not discuss the business side of things. It is a very beneficial thing that may cause people to appreciate the ongoing work into a piece of art. It happens in every form of media. Watching deleted scenes, or alternate scenes gives more insight at times. However, I feel there are times that there are some anime that feel very rushed or incomplete to the point where the bluray needs to fill in the gaps. The bluray extras are no longer a novelty as much they are to fill in things that should have been there in the first place. The biggest offender in my mind is Bakemonogatari which if I had watched as aired; I might just have forgotten about it completely with how it concluded. So that made me think: If I watched an anime that felt really incomplete at the end, but the blurays made it an entirely different story, would I judge the thing by what I saw or what the "finished product" is? After all, anime is an advertisement for the final product-- so it might be said that one could have some patience to see what was originally intended. But at the same time, it breaks the flow since the experience of viewing something in its entirety for its first time can't be replaced. My question to you is: How does this affect your enjoyment of a series if at all if say an anime feels a bit incomplete but the bluray promises to fix it?
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2012-06-16, 18:04 | Link #2 |
Butchered Taste
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: North Carolina
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Well, most of the time I don't read the original content to know if it was cut(Berserker Vs. Saber from Fate/Zero). When I find out later though it annoys me.
Plus,sometimes it is censored on the aired version(9th's hand from Mirai Nikki), but then show on the Blu-Ray. Which annoys me also. I'd judge it off the Blu-Ray/full version personally. |
2012-06-16, 18:23 | Link #3 |
Senior Member
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Well, chances are that not everybody who watched the original airing is going to be getting the Blu-Rays.
For those of us who don't, we have nothing but the original airing to go on. If somebody doesn't intend to buy the Blu-Rays, how can you fault him or her for evaluating the anime based on what was in the original airing? That's all s/he has to 'work with', as it were. Now, if I'm reviewing an anime that I intend to get the Blu-Rays/DVDs for, and I have good reason to suspect that the Blu-Rays/DVDs will improve my assessment of the anime, my approach would be: 1) Episodic reviews/scores based on the original airing. 2) Overall review based on the Blu-Rays. My view is that people tend to grade/review episodes before seeing the full finished narrative anyway. It's typically a response to your first time watching an episode of an anime you're following. But Overall Reviews would naturally include everything, so yeah, there it might be wise to wait for the finished product IF you intend to buy it, imo. Also, while I'm fine with bonus extras being on the DVD/Blu-Ray, I do think it's bad form for key elements of an anime's overarching narrative (if there is one) to be left out of the original airing. Not to pick on Fate/Zero, but since I suspect Fate/Zero's latest episode helped inspire this thread, I'll use it for an example of what I mean here: Spoiler for MAJOR Fate/Zero spoilers. Involves 2nd last episode.:
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2012-06-16, 19:25 | Link #4 | ||||
Japanese Culture Fan
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Age: 33
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I'm sure that there are censorship restrictions, but in the vast majority of recent cases, television anime is not censored because it is "too hot for TV". I was personally surprised to a teenage female character's bare behind shown without censorship in the TV airing of Star Driver, which is a late afternoon anime. At the time, I was used to seeing late-night anime censor things as harmless as panty shots. Then I realized that these anime, airing late at night, are perfectly capable of showing lots of nudity, but the distributors deliberately hold back and censor it themselves (with steam, for example, but sometimes things like animals are used instead) to entice viewers to buy the BD. This doesn't normally happen with non-"fanservice anime" like Star Driver because the main appeal isn't the fanservice and nudity. Of course, this becomes a big problem when the main appeal behind your anime is the fanservice and there's not much else to entertain with, like with Softenni. When that happens, the censorship kills the entire point behind the TV broadcast and and becomes a disservice and insult to the TV watchers rather than just a hook to buy the BD. This is why I rarely watch fanservice-oriented anime while they air nowadays. Quote:
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If there are only two or so moments in a TV broadcast where some nudity or violence is obviously censored, then I might let it slide. But if the "story" beyond an anime is basically "Bob has to deal with boobs and butt in his face all day erry day", or "Alice is a serial killer who kills little girls and puppies for fun", then of course a lot of censorship will hurt my enjoyment, and probably will encourage me to drop the anime until the BD comes along. Animation isn't too much of an issue unless it's really bad or lacking (as in Bakemonogatari's case). |
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2012-06-16, 19:31 | Link #5 | |
Senior Member
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Even if TV anime is just a glorified infomercial, you still have to give people a reason to watch the infomercial itself...
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2012-06-16, 19:34 | Link #6 |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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Well, basically, I appreciate it when anime makers try their hardest to present everything they got on the original airing first, only to be cut by censorship or duration limit. Only after that, it’s justifiable to put some extra that is essential part of the story on Blu.
But I really really don’t like it when anime makers deliberately cut important stuff from the aired version in the beginning only to attract Blu buyers. Aesthetically, they kinda ruin the first viewing experience by doing that. But as we know, everything profitable is good in business world. So yeah, money talks.
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2012-06-16, 20:35 | Link #7 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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Well take a Hollywood example. The Lord of the Rings.
Each film had I think at least half an hour added to it for the DVDs. And the films make more sense with those sceness. But he films held up in the theater just fine. The movies were just too long for theater viewing.
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2012-06-16, 21:12 | Link #9 | |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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Like I said before, I really appreciate it when movie/anime makers want to present the best of their product first, and not deliberately going “save the best for the Blu”.
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2012-06-16, 21:28 | Link #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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In the case of Fate Zero you only have to spend like $600 to get the extended material. What a deal.
Anyways a series should stand on its own without the extended material. I think if there is extra material it should be something special for the fans, not something that is integral to the plot.
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2012-06-17, 00:54 | Link #12 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
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The BD is the complete product in its final version, so it is what should be used to evaluate a work of art's merits in the long run. That's how it's always been even outside the anime industry. Just look at films like Blade Runner, whose premier in the theaters was followed by a Director's Cut version in DVD which has gone on to become the definite canon of the work. With anime it should be no different.
Now that's not to say I don't feel cheated and pissed off when I watch the TV airing of something that clearly feels incomplete, but yeah. Ultimately those feelings are temporary and a few months from now until the end of my life I won't give a crap about the initial version of Fate/Zero's episode 24 anymore, since I'll always be able to watch and enjoy the complete product from that point on. Quote:
Mind you, it's still ridiculously overpriced, but that's how things roll in Japan. |
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2012-06-17, 02:28 | Link #13 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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I don't know how close to air date today's production companies get, but in the 70s there were anime that literally delivered their reels 12 hours before the show was to air...complete or not. Almost every week.
Some would manage to fix some of the errors or at least better complete scenes if the show was shown in a repeat or for the video release (once that technology became viable). But some errors were never fixed.
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2012-06-17, 02:36 | Link #14 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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The classic example of this are several efforts around Shinbo productions -- where much of the episode is reduced to a sequence of stills due to problems in production.
1) Moon Phase and its entire fight scenes animated as a still drawing of a fireplace or window while you heard all the action (later corrected in the DVD) 2) The -gatari chain of series where there were even stills that *said* so-sorry-there-will-be-animation-here-ran-out-of-time. No matter what the cause (unrealistic production scheduling, inept management, bad communication, task screw ups) or whether it was a creative attempt to patch the situation - it comes across poorly from a professional perspective. OTOH -- I suppose one could argue it gives that "happening live edge of disaster" feeling a live performance has
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2012-06-17, 06:04 | Link #15 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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I mean I can understand the extended version having more intense action & extra scenes fans will appreciate but it should not have stuff integral to understanding the plot. If that's the case then I would say the editing job on the series was done poorly.
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2012-06-17, 06:07 | Link #16 |
RUN, YOU FOOLS!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost
Age: 44
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600$ is just.... insane for me. I just hope that euro publishers realize this and don't pull that shit on the fans. Especially when considering the current economic and social turmoil that the euro zone is experiencing right now.
Yes, I WOULD buy a BR release but not at that price. |
2012-06-17, 06:09 | Link #17 |
Autistic NEET bath lover
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: France
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Whenever I start to watch a new anime, it gets affected by the censorship (inappropriate content) and/or by duration limits (like having animators not getting any time to fix minor things), but the Blu-Ray/DVD discs fix them to remove censorship and gets better animation.
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2012-06-17, 06:20 | Link #18 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AUSTRALIA
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Technical production teams exist for the reason that the TV shown product is the finished product (anything less is simply slap-dash and amateurish), however If there is a scene that had to be cut from broadcast due to time constraints (say the programme makers could not buy the five extra minutes from the TV station to fit it in) then and only then would it reach acceptability in my eyes. Even the fanservice censoring should not be used as a 'crutch' for the networks and by extension the studios, that broadcast the shows at such an ungodly hour as to preclude the chance of minors watching anyway.
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2012-06-17, 06:26 | Link #19 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
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I simply won't care in the long run, because I plan to get my hands on the BDs (of course, this is all assuming they'll fix the mistakes in those), but I can understand how people who won't might keep holding those faults against the series. Ideally I would prefer it if everyone could judge the work based on the final version, but in the case of something like this that's obviously and unfortunately not a feasible possibility. |
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2012-06-17, 06:47 | Link #20 | |
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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I seldom watch episodes twice, unless it they are particularly enjoyable. As such, I judge episodes solely based on what I'm given. If a bluray promises to fix any imperfections, then it's all good, but it probably won't affect my perception of the episodes I've already seen. Either way, it still has to be somewhat enticing to motivate consumers to actually buy the blurays. What can else I say? At the end of the day, it's all business.
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