2011-03-07, 23:50 | Link #12341 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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2011-03-08, 01:28 | Link #12342 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
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You comparison is also completely off base. The founding fathers did not have a problem with pure democracy because they didn't want everyone to vote but instead because they felt that a pure democracy would lead the majority to force their will on the minority. That's why they favored a society based around laws not the whims of the people. As John Adams put it "A government of laws, not of men."
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2011-03-08, 01:58 | Link #12343 | ||
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Came across this lovely bullet item list of the documented lies and scams the Governor of Wisconsin has pulled in his short stint as the Koch Brother's pawn.
http://filterednews.wordpress.com/20...by-gov-walker/ Quote:
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2011-03-08, 02:01 | Link #12344 |
Aria Company
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Wait, really? You're going to use the argument that because the constitution originally only allowed white males to vote it's ok to disenfranchise people today? Do you even see how fucked up that is? Seriously? Do you not see the end result of such lines of thinking?
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2011-03-08, 02:32 | Link #12345 | ||
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You get too much of these people in Congress, who have no concept about the Constitution, or the Federal Government's role. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhdPr...layer_embedded Quote:
This is truly becoming a war between the producers and the takers. http://www.laits.utexas.edu/lawdem/u...y_to_vote.html 1774 At the Continental Congress meeting in Philadelphia, the Framers of the Constitution could not agree on who should be given the right to vote. As a result, the Constitution only states that members of the House of Representatives were to be elected by the people of each state who, under state law were eligible to vote for the lower house of their state legislature. The Constitution, therefore, left to each state government the power to decide who could vote. As a result, many of the early battles over the right to vote took place at the state level It was a state issue. It was not in the Constitution, nor did I say that it was. Last edited by james0246; 2011-03-08 at 12:24. Reason: double post... |
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2011-03-08, 02:47 | Link #12348 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
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Welfare didn't exist in those days either so the land owner clause was mainly keep the poor from having a voice in government whether they be white or not. It was at the heart elitism. Whether you like it or not the country is filled with a lot of different people with different set of lifestyles if we start singling out a group we more favor then its become a government not of the people but of the few "chosen" people.
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2011-03-08, 02:47 | Link #12349 | ||
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http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly...67323.html?x=0 http://www.heritage.org/Research/Rep...f-Income-Taxes I don't even know why I bother in here. Most of the people here are still in school, and haven't seen the real world yet(most but not all). You claim political biases by organizations like Fox, but turn a blind eye to those same biases on the other side by NBC, CBS, CNN, NPR, etc. You pick out bad things that Republicans say or do, but turn a blind eye to the ones that Democrats do. There is no neutral or moderate thinking here. It's like DemocraticUnderground Lite. Last edited by james0246; 2011-03-08 at 12:25. Reason: multiple posts... |
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2011-03-08, 02:56 | Link #12350 | |
Zettai Ryouiki Lover
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Bay Area
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2011-03-08, 03:01 | Link #12351 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
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But, I generally agree with your article. We should tax people more especially the middle and upper class and lower the ceiling for being middle class to a much more reasonable amount. I don't think taxing the truly poor will do anything to solve our financial situation at all though.
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2011-03-08, 03:06 | Link #12352 | |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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And with inflation, how can the lower income afford high taxes and purchase of necessities at the same time?
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2011-03-08, 03:11 | Link #12353 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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2011-03-08, 03:19 | Link #12354 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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For example, the Heritage Foundation was initiated by Joseph Coors back in 1973. Its useful to read up on his views on politics. Current donors can be found following the links from the wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Her...dation#Funding Taking analyses at face value isn't really a very bright move no matter what your feelings on various matters.
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2011-03-08, 03:21 | Link #12355 | |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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E.g A rich man earns $100,000 per month and his lower end employee earns $1,000 per month. The rich pays 3% tax and the employee pays 5%. Doing the math - Rich man = $100,000 x 3% = $300 Employee = $1,000 x 5% = $50 Obviously the rich pays more. However, Rich man's remaining salary = $100,000 - $300 = $99,700 Employee's remaining salary = $1,000 - $50 = $950 So who has more to spend in the end? And in times of inflation like this, who can afford to live, or even survive, better?
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2011-03-08, 03:22 | Link #12356 | ||
Aria Company
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Also, your whole "WAA! THE POOR ARE STEALING MY MONEIS!" claim is bullshit. First off, we have historically low federal tax rates. Second off, who exactly is doing nothing while taking your hard earned tax dollars? Most people on public assistance programs are working their asses off every day but it's still not enough. The concept of able bodied people sitting on their asses doing nothing while on the public dole is a right wing strawman with no real basis in reality. So who are we really talking about here? Disabled people and seniors on social security? Poor people who are working but need food stamps to help feed their kids? Who's taking your money? Quote:
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2011-03-08, 03:32 | Link #12357 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
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It hard to with that the article what everything actually means because they use percentage of taxes paid. We know they had a lot of middle class tax breaks that doesn't mean that the rich still in the end didn't pay less money towards taxes. Also the brackets shifted so that even if you made more money in 2006 than 2000 you might be in a lower tax bracket. Also it really fails to address that before Reagan that burden was much more on the rich than it is nowadays. Since Reagan it has only shifted more and more away from them. 250,000 is an awful lot to make and still be considered middle class imho.
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2011-03-08, 03:38 | Link #12358 | |
Asuki-tan Kairin ↓
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fürth (GER)
Age: 43
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Justin's idea of giving voting rights to those who pay enough taxes is not really surprising, nor is it responsible. One cannot take away that false front of a democratic system (one cannot take away their inalienable right to be lied at - every 4 years), the hope in the people, that they basically can influence the system. This creates only unrest and maybe something like civil war or a poor vs. rich Apartheit system. I mean in the end, the big money that pays proportionally the smallest amount of taxes really has a say in politics. They can really shape how things are done in the USA. So in general, I would not give Justin's idea too much attention. Since the last thing the corporate USA's elite wants is unrest in their system (hence no chance for this idea to become a reality in the near future).
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2011-03-08, 05:09 | Link #12359 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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Sounds like a new party will be required soon to cut through the crap from the current dominate two. The question would be what it would need as an agenda and leaning to gain votes from the people? Extreme parties don't get anywhere unless the balance of the other two parties is off of center too far.
Weird. I'll be old enough to run for President by the time of the election in 2012.
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2011-03-08, 06:02 | Link #12360 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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