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Old 2013-05-27, 18:55   Link #4661
belatkuro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitecloud View Post
Sometimes I wonder, is tatsuya maya or Miya's son?
Did you read the "Untouchable" chapter? Read the last parts again.
Spoiler for Untouchable:



Quote:
Originally Posted by yuzen003 View Post
Was this in response to my question of "Where are you getting that most Yotsuba magicians went through what Tatsuya did"? I only saw mention that "the ground facilities are still used in order to test a magician’s performance, and the martial arts gym especially sees much use". The original subjects for the Fourth Institute were experimented on and had their magic calculation area modified, but once the Yotsuba were created why would they need to continue with those experiments when they had already succeeded? If this was in reference could you give a chapter as I missed that detail.
Volume 8 Chapter 14.
Spoiler for Miya talking to Miyuki:
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Old 2013-05-27, 19:01   Link #4662
henzaeroz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberdemon View Post
Things will likely return to what they were like at that time when Miyuki takes charge. Shell never let things continue on as they currently are.

After reading the chapter. I am almost sure that biologically Tatsuya is Maya's son but was likely an experiment they recovered from remnants of the group that did that to Maya, or from the Great Asian Alliance who assimilated them. Miya probably took him in and raised him as a penance to her sister like what she did to her own body since Maya's position would likely never allow her to raise an "fake magician". Personally I like the current status quo between Tatsuya and Miyuki as siblings rather than lovers. I'd rather see him recover his emotions and show interest in the others.
Maya is twelve years old that time ( 2062 ), current year 2095.
so it was passed 33 years ( Maya is 45 years old Oba-san )


it's impossible if he was the son of the results of the incident
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Old 2013-05-27, 19:10   Link #4663
cyberdemon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitecloud View Post
Sometimes I wonder, is tatsuya maya or Miya's son?
I think he's Maya's son but not naturally. the people who kidnapped her put her through experiments in magician manufacturing (it's stated that was their intention). and yet despite the fact that they could regrow organs and even limbs, Maya was still proclaimed to not be able to have children. The only way I can really see this being so is if she no longer had her eggs. She did say that they messed with the inside of her and I don't think that was just talking about being raped since she said she was raped AND they messed with her body even on the inside. Tatsuya was probably created by remnants of the group who escaped the Yotsuba's purge. eventually he was rescued by the Yotsuba and raised by Miya. Miya was said to abuse her powers to weaken herself as a penance to her sister. Might explain why she was so willing to use it again on Tatsuya despite how bad her health was by then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by henzaeroz View Post
Maya is twelve years old that time ( 2062 ), current year 2095.
so it was passed 33 years ( Maya is 45 years old Oba-san )


it's impossible if he was the son of the results of the incident
it's not as a result. More like they stole her eggs for means of manufacturing magicians. The Yotsuba tried to wipe them out but some might have escaped from it with them. Even if they had them though. it would still take a while to regroup and start again.
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Old 2013-05-27, 19:43   Link #4664
rickiminato
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reading the last part of the novel 8 understand that Maya felt to be kidnapped, his father sacrificed his life for his daughter that means Genzou was good,but that did not give him the right miya to do that with tatsuya ,experiment wiht tatsuya as they did to his sister

what do you think about that?
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Old 2013-05-27, 19:45   Link #4665
blackwhite67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickiminato View Post
reading the last part of the novel 8 understand that Maya felt to be kidnapped, his father sacrificed his life for his daughter that means Genzou was good,but that did not give him the right miya to do that with tatsuya ,experiment wiht tatsuya as they did to his sister

what do you think about that?
I can't tell what you're asking.
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Old 2013-05-27, 19:53   Link #4666
henzaeroz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberdemon View Post
Tatsuya was probably created by remnants of the group who escaped the Yotsuba's purge. eventually he was rescued by the Yotsuba and raised by Miya. Miya was said to abuse her powers to weaken herself as a penance to her sister. Might explain why she was so willing to use it again on Tatsuya despite how bad her health was by then.
huhh

how old is tatsuya again ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickiminato View Post
reading the last part of the novel 8 understand that Maya felt to be kidnapped, his father sacrificed his life for his daughter that means Genzou was good,but that did not give him the right miya to do that with tatsuya ,experiment wiht tatsuya as they did to his sister

what do you think about that?
they want to help tatsuya and the experiment was conducted so tatsuya can live as one of the Yotsuba

Quote:
“But, we the Yotsuba are magicians who stand amongst the Ten Master Houses, and therefore one who cannot use magic cannot be a Yotsuba. That child, unable to use magic, could not live as one of the Yotsuba. So Maya and I, seven years ago, performed a certain operation on him. Although truth be told, the motivation behind that experiment wasn’t that alone……”
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Old 2013-05-27, 19:54   Link #4667
cyberdemon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickiminato View Post
reading the last part of the novel 8 understand that Maya felt to be kidnapped, his father sacrificed his life for his daughter that means Genzou was good,but that did not give him the right miya to do that with tatsuya ,experiment wiht tatsuya as they did to his sister

what do you think about that?
he didn't tell her to do that to Tatsuya. he would've been dead for a good 20 years by then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by henzaeroz View Post
huhh

how old is tatsuya again ?
16 i believe. You'd have to consider the time it would take them to get back on their feet though. finding sponsors, getting back their equipment, and all while hiding from the Yotsuba. Tatsuya wouldn't likely be the only attempt either. all of this would take time.

i personally find this a neat idea because it's leave open the possibility that anther that s exactly like Tatsuya in terms of ability could turn up. you gotta wonder just who would win if Tatsuya had to fight himself.
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Old 2013-05-27, 20:22   Link #4668
SoloPanda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberdemon View Post
he didn't tell her to do that to Tatsuya. he would've been dead for a good 20 years by then.



16 i believe. You'd have to consider the time it would take them to get back on their feet though. finding sponsors, getting back their equipment, and all while hiding from the Yotsuba. Tatsuya wouldn't likely be the only attempt either. all of this would take time.

i personally find this a neat idea because it's leave open the possibility that anther that s exactly like Tatsuya in terms of ability could turn up. you gotta wonder just who would win if Tatsuya had to fight himself.
obviously the one with the cutest little sister would win.... i mean stongest... well both.
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Old 2013-05-27, 20:30   Link #4669
yuzen003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belatkuro View Post
Volume 8 Chapter 14.
Spoiler for Miya talking to Miyuki:
I'm reading the quote as Tatsuya got experimented on because he "lacked the ability to use magic" rather then it was in any way typical to experiment on normal magically talented members of the Yotsuba. Am I somehow misinterpreting the qoute, I'm still not seeing any implication that most members of the Yotsuba went through the same things Tatsuya did.

This is not saying the Yotsuba don't run experiments, the Sakurai are a clear example of that, but that doesn't mean they experiment on family members. If 29 people composed half their fighting force in Genzou's era there were never many members of the family, risking losing any of them to experiments likely wouldn't be worth the marginal gains.
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Old 2013-05-27, 20:33   Link #4670
cyberdemon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yuzen003 View Post
I'm reading the quote as Tatsuya got experimented on because he "lacked the ability to use magic" rather then it was in any way typical to experiment on normal magically talented members of the Yotsuba. Am I somehow misinterpreting the qoute, I'm still not seeing any implication that most members of the Yotsuba went through the same things Tatsuya did.

This is not saying the Yotsuba don't run experiments, the Sakurai are a clear example of that, but that doesn't mean they experiment on family members. If 29 people composed half their fighting force in Genzou's era there were never many members of the family, risking losing any of them to experiments likely wouldn't be worth the marginal gains.
they say so in the new chapter posted today
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Old 2013-05-27, 21:00   Link #4671
mike211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackwhite67 View Post
Maya can feel emotions now. Its just that all her experiences up until Miya worked her magic were turned into information. So she could still feel emotions afterwards.
Oh is that so.. My interpretation was that Miya have change her completely "Hence quotes
Quote:
"...Your 'experiences' have been changed to 'knowledge'. The memory storage of experience has been transmuted into memory storage of knowledge... the shape of your memory has been reconfigured."
Quote:
"The me I was until yesterday has been killed by my own elder sister.".

No where stated Maya could still feel emotions afterwards which lead me to believe Maya feel emotions as information and still can't experiences, cause the changes to her are permanent.
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Old 2013-05-27, 21:04   Link #4672
yuzen003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberdemon View Post
they say so in the new chapter posted today
Untouchable — The Nightmare of 2062?

Is this the section talking about it?
Spoiler for Is this the relavent quote?:


Everything is in the past tense so I interpreted that as the experiments were done by the Fourth Institute and the Yotsuba were the end result, not that they continued after creating the Yotsuba bloodline. The test subjects before they were officially Yotsuba and founding members might have been experimented on, but the succeeding generations who officially were Yotsuba would have been strong magicians so there would have been less necessity to risk them.

Last edited by yuzen003; 2013-05-27 at 21:22.
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Old 2013-05-27, 21:07   Link #4673
bludvein
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike211 View Post
Oh is that so.. My interpretation was that Miya have change her completely "Hence quotes


No where stated Maya could still feel emotions afterwards which lead me to believe Maya feel emotions as information and still can't experiences, cause the changes to her are permanent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

By the same token, nowhere does it say any new experiences are converted to knowledge.

Personally, I sort of doubt its an ongoing effect like that.
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Old 2013-05-27, 21:35   Link #4674
mike211
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And that why I stated "My interpretation" and not stating it as a fact, but as bludvein posted, it could goes both way, guess we would never know.
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Old 2013-05-28, 00:37   Link #4675
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The Irony that Saegusa is linked to the Yotsuba....
Then and Now...
Expecting a arc on that probably.
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Old 2013-05-28, 02:46   Link #4676
belatkuro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yuzen003 View Post
Everything is in the past tense so I interpreted that as the experiments were done by the Fourth Institute and the Yotsuba were the end result, not that they continued after creating the Yotsuba bloodline. The test subjects before they were officially Yotsuba and founding members might have been experimented on, but the succeeding generations who officially were Yotsuba would have been strong magicians so there would have been less necessity to risk them.
Even so, Miya and Maya still proceeded with the experiment with Tatsuya just because he wasn't a true magician according to the Yotsubas. I'm not saying that Tatsuya's experiment was in the same vein as the past ones. Just that they still proceeded with it because it was needed to change Tatsuya into a proper successor who is capable of wielding proper magic.

And my earlier reply was meant for the one saying that the reason why Tatsuya is hated by the clan is because he is rebellious. That's not the reason. He's hated because he was a defective magician unworthy of being called a Yotsuba because of the nature of his magic and the results of the experiment.
He's loyal but only to Miyuki.
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Old 2013-05-28, 05:17   Link #4677
henzaeroz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meltyred View Post
The Irony that Saegusa is linked to the Yotsuba....
Then and Now...
Expecting a arc on that probably.
hope the engagement between Yotsuba and Saegusa will happen again.




Quote:
Originally Posted by belatkuro View Post
Even so, Miya and Maya still proceeded with the experiment with Tatsuya just because he wasn't a true magician according to the Yotsubas. I'm not saying that Tatsuya's experiment was in the same vein as the past ones. Just that they still proceeded with it because it was needed to change Tatsuya into a proper successor who is capable of wielding proper magic.

And my earlier reply was meant for the one saying that the reason why Tatsuya is hated by the clan is because he is rebellious. That's not the reason. He's hated because he was a defective magician unworthy of being called a Yotsuba because of the nature of his magic and the results of the experiment.
He's loyal but only to Miyuki.
i believe they don't really hate him.

don't forget Tatsuya is as a servant / bodyguard, a disposable tool. so showing empathy for a tool is improper.


in volume 8 we know that actually Tatsuya is an obedient servant. even he was obeying his mother and do the appropriate thing when he meet kuroba siblings and his uncle.


don't know when, but maybe after miyuki value tatsuya so high, he start to change. i think he is a little bit haughty too. he don't really follow anyone orders if not necessary and sometimes act on his own.

then probably the clan are jealous because Miyuki value tatsuya very high even though he is a servant/bodyguard.
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Old 2013-05-28, 06:28   Link #4678
Oxide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henzaeroz View Post
hope the engagement between Yotsuba and Saegusa will happen again.
This should point out that Miya was the elder twin and head candidate ... merge between clans is higly unlikely ... also while Miya magic concerns structure of self Tatsuya magic concerns structure of objects ... they both supplement each other magics and both seems to have ability for their respective structure analysis ... coincidence ?
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Old 2013-05-28, 06:47   Link #4679
Von Himmel
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I wonder if Koichi still retain his feelings for Miya back then (if he had any to begin with).. I can't understand the reason of what he's doing in Double 7 considering his past with the Yotsuba.
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Old 2013-05-28, 06:56   Link #4680
alviam099
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Even if Koichi still does, Maya certainly doesn't love him anymore and the Yotsuba are certainly too strong already, even if you don't count Tatsuya there.
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